A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old March 21st 18, 11:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

AMuzi wrote:

But hey it's for the children!


OK, but what is it then? People just make up
things so they can justify doing new things, or
old things in a new way?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
Ads
  #42  
Old March 21st 18, 11:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 3/21/2018 4:52 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.


There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage
You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company
that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE
plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a
bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.


Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an
outside document.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a
1mm variance. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole
issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors!
Support your LBS.



It's inherently unresolvable by its nature.

Rigid standards stymie progress. You want a universal car?
It's a Trabant. Universal bike? Chinese knockoff of a
Raleigh Roadster, and so on. If we had established national
computer standards when they were first proposed, we'd all
be using Fortran and punch cards. Our DOD is in fact using
some systems from that era yet.

Conversely, the past 30 years or so have seen a spectacular
decline in cost of tooling and distribution so any putz can
take a nearly obsolete 26" format (584mm) between the
popular 26 inch 559 and 590 sizes, call it twenty seven and
a half (why? Because it's smaller than a British 26 inch
that's why!) and using today's efficient marketing and
distribution channels push out the cheaper established sizes
in a few short years. Progress!

So we make our call case by case with no principle.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #43  
Old March 22nd 18, 12:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 2018-03-21 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2018 4:52 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when
buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a
supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks,
will look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the
exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage
You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company
that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE
plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a
bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.


Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an
outside document.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a
1mm variance. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole
issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors!
Support your LBS.



It's inherently unresolvable by its nature.

Rigid standards stymie progress. You want a universal car? It's a
Trabant. Universal bike? Chinese knockoff of a Raleigh Roadster, and so
on. If we had established national computer standards when they were
first proposed, we'd all be using Fortran and punch cards. Our DOD is in
fact using some systems from that era yet.

Conversely, the past 30 years or so have seen a spectacular decline in
cost of tooling and distribution so any putz can take a nearly obsolete
26" format (584mm) between the popular 26 inch 559 and 590 sizes, call
it twenty seven and a half (why? Because it's smaller than a British 26
inch that's why!) and using today's efficient marketing and distribution
channels push out the cheaper established sizes in a few short years.
Progress!

So we make our call case by case with no principle.


Our 71mm bottle will make you faster! It will shave at least 150
microseconds off the average morning commute! Progress!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #44  
Old March 22nd 18, 12:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 3/21/2018 5:55 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

But hey it's for the children!


OK, but what is it then? People just make up
things so they can justify doing new things, or
old things in a new way?


In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear Leader Say So"
is all the reason needed. In this enlightened republic, our
cruel overlords need to invent new and different lies from
time to time.



[1] Average? there's only ever been one of those.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #45  
Old March 22nd 18, 01:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

AMuzi wrote:

In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear
Leader Say So" is all the reason needed.
In this enlightened republic, our cruel
overlords need to invent new and different
lies from time to time.

[1] Average? there's only ever been one
of those.


Obviously it is good that people try to come up
with new stuff, including new standards, and
I don't think we would have had the good stuff
if it weren't for all those guys (and girls)
who come up with stuff (or write standards)
that never made anyone the least happy.

It only gets a bit embarrassing when people
refer to the new standard like
"we-know-what-it-is-about" attitude or hits the
big drum for some thing that won't ever make it
anywhere from that first article describing the
new product release.

But again, I see it as part of the game so why
all the irony?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #46  
Old March 22nd 18, 01:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

Emanuel Berg writes:

Radey Shouman wrote:

Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see
any reference to an outside document.


Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in
people who first boast of their standards
making the world better, then won't even reveal
their standards free of charge when it is just
a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on
a web server?


Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose.
All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert
source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability

Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to
reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it.

--
  #47  
Old March 22nd 18, 01:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

AMuzi writes:

On 3/21/2018 5:55 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

But hey it's for the children!


OK, but what is it then? People just make up
things so they can justify doing new things, or
old things in a new way?


In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear Leader Say So" is all the
reason needed. In this enlightened republic, our cruel overlords need
to invent new and different lies from time to time.



[1] Average? there's only ever been one of those.


I suspect in the case of bicycle valves the impetus came from the
European ROHS (Restriction Of Hazardous Substances) directive. Same
reason leaded solder has become so thin on the ground.

--
  #48  
Old March 22nd 18, 01:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

I just bought a kit of ring spanners from
"Alpha Tools", I think it is a low-end brand,
either that, or this particular kit was of
so-so quality, is my intuition. Anyway they are
"DIN 838". On a double open-end spanner, which
is a Heyco 10 and 13mm, it says "DIN 895".
It would be interesting to see what they say if
anyone found them on the web and care to
share...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #49  
Old March 22nd 18, 01:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 07:51:34 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.



Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.


Ah, but if there was a standard for the bottles carried on bicycles
you wouldn't be able to carry that big bucket of beer that you brag
about. After all, it wouldn't be standard.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #50  
Old March 22nd 18, 01:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 3/21/2018 7:05 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote:

In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear
Leader Say So" is all the reason needed.
In this enlightened republic, our cruel
overlords need to invent new and different
lies from time to time.

[1] Average? there's only ever been one
of those.


Obviously it is good that people try to come up
with new stuff, including new standards, and
I don't think we would have had the good stuff
if it weren't for all those guys (and girls)
who come up with stuff (or write standards)
that never made anyone the least happy.

It only gets a bit embarrassing when people
refer to the new standard like
"we-know-what-it-is-about" attitude or hits the
big drum for some thing that won't ever make it
anywhere from that first article describing the
new product release.

But again, I see it as part of the game so why
all the irony?


My 'for the children' referred to the end of free machining
brass valves.

If you want to discuss standards, BetaMax was clearly
superior to VHS. Not that it mattered.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seat Post Diameters Steve Freides[_2_] Techniques 10 September 7th 10 06:26 PM
Handlebar diameters? Duncan Smith Techniques 6 October 8th 07 11:38 PM
Available diameters on integrated headsets? dabac[_41_] Techniques 6 September 20th 07 11:33 AM
Chain Ring Diameters James Fitch Techniques 3 March 7th 07 03:41 AM
How does one measure wheel diameters? Alan Holmes UK 8 December 20th 06 11:52 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.