|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
AMuzi wrote:
But hey it's for the children! OK, but what is it then? People just make up things so they can justify doing new things, or old things in a new way? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
Ads |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/21/2018 4:52 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens. Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a 1mm variance. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors! Support your LBS. It's inherently unresolvable by its nature. Rigid standards stymie progress. You want a universal car? It's a Trabant. Universal bike? Chinese knockoff of a Raleigh Roadster, and so on. If we had established national computer standards when they were first proposed, we'd all be using Fortran and punch cards. Our DOD is in fact using some systems from that era yet. Conversely, the past 30 years or so have seen a spectacular decline in cost of tooling and distribution so any putz can take a nearly obsolete 26" format (584mm) between the popular 26 inch 559 and 590 sizes, call it twenty seven and a half (why? Because it's smaller than a British 26 inch that's why!) and using today's efficient marketing and distribution channels push out the cheaper established sizes in a few short years. Progress! So we make our call case by case with no principle. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 2018-03-21 15:59, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2018 4:52 PM, Radey Shouman wrote: jbeattie writes: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens. Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a 1mm variance. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors! Support your LBS. It's inherently unresolvable by its nature. Rigid standards stymie progress. You want a universal car? It's a Trabant. Universal bike? Chinese knockoff of a Raleigh Roadster, and so on. If we had established national computer standards when they were first proposed, we'd all be using Fortran and punch cards. Our DOD is in fact using some systems from that era yet. Conversely, the past 30 years or so have seen a spectacular decline in cost of tooling and distribution so any putz can take a nearly obsolete 26" format (584mm) between the popular 26 inch 559 and 590 sizes, call it twenty seven and a half (why? Because it's smaller than a British 26 inch that's why!) and using today's efficient marketing and distribution channels push out the cheaper established sizes in a few short years. Progress! So we make our call case by case with no principle. Our 71mm bottle will make you faster! It will shave at least 150 microseconds off the average morning commute! Progress! -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/21/2018 5:55 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote: But hey it's for the children! OK, but what is it then? People just make up things so they can justify doing new things, or old things in a new way? In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear Leader Say So" is all the reason needed. In this enlightened republic, our cruel overlords need to invent new and different lies from time to time. [1] Average? there's only ever been one of those. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
AMuzi wrote:
In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear Leader Say So" is all the reason needed. In this enlightened republic, our cruel overlords need to invent new and different lies from time to time. [1] Average? there's only ever been one of those. Obviously it is good that people try to come up with new stuff, including new standards, and I don't think we would have had the good stuff if it weren't for all those guys (and girls) who come up with stuff (or write standards) that never made anyone the least happy. It only gets a bit embarrassing when people refer to the new standard like "we-know-what-it-is-about" attitude or hits the big drum for some thing that won't ever make it anywhere from that first article describing the new product release. But again, I see it as part of the game so why all the irony? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
Emanuel Berg writes:
Radey Shouman wrote: Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in people who first boast of their standards making the world better, then won't even reveal their standards free of charge when it is just a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on a web server? Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it. -- |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
AMuzi writes:
On 3/21/2018 5:55 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi wrote: But hey it's for the children! OK, but what is it then? People just make up things so they can justify doing new things, or old things in a new way? In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear Leader Say So" is all the reason needed. In this enlightened republic, our cruel overlords need to invent new and different lies from time to time. [1] Average? there's only ever been one of those. I suspect in the case of bicycle valves the impetus came from the European ROHS (Restriction Of Hazardous Substances) directive. Same reason leaded solder has become so thin on the ground. -- |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
I just bought a kit of ring spanners from
"Alpha Tools", I think it is a low-end brand, either that, or this particular kit was of so-so quality, is my intuition. Anyway they are "DIN 838". On a double open-end spanner, which is a Heyco 10 and 13mm, it says "DIN 895". It would be interesting to see what they say if anyone found them on the web and care to share... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 07:51:34 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. Ah, but if there was a standard for the bottles carried on bicycles you wouldn't be able to carry that big bucket of beer that you brag about. After all, it wouldn't be standard. -- Cheers, John B. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/21/2018 7:05 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
AMuzi wrote: In your average Stalinist Monarchy[1] "Dear Leader Say So" is all the reason needed. In this enlightened republic, our cruel overlords need to invent new and different lies from time to time. [1] Average? there's only ever been one of those. Obviously it is good that people try to come up with new stuff, including new standards, and I don't think we would have had the good stuff if it weren't for all those guys (and girls) who come up with stuff (or write standards) that never made anyone the least happy. It only gets a bit embarrassing when people refer to the new standard like "we-know-what-it-is-about" attitude or hits the big drum for some thing that won't ever make it anywhere from that first article describing the new product release. But again, I see it as part of the game so why all the irony? My 'for the children' referred to the end of free machining brass valves. If you want to discuss standards, BetaMax was clearly superior to VHS. Not that it mattered. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Seat Post Diameters | Steve Freides[_2_] | Techniques | 10 | September 7th 10 06:26 PM |
Handlebar diameters? | Duncan Smith | Techniques | 6 | October 8th 07 11:38 PM |
Available diameters on integrated headsets? | dabac[_41_] | Techniques | 6 | September 20th 07 11:33 AM |
Chain Ring Diameters | James Fitch | Techniques | 3 | March 7th 07 03:41 AM |
How does one measure wheel diameters? | Alan Holmes | UK | 8 | December 20th 06 11:52 PM |