So, what happened to Mikey V.

On 18/02/11 17:10, SMS wrote:

He's certainly learned his lesson and will not repeat the (alleged)
behavior that got him into all this trouble. Let's be happy for that.

I'd be happy if that were the case, but.. for some values of
"certainly"... Where has he ever showed any ability to learn about
realities of cycling and cyclists before now?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 02/20/2011 05:42 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 02/19/2011 12:06 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Mr. Vandeman will continue his crusade against mountain biking on hiking
trails until the end of time. And I and other folks with brains in their
heads will be here to support him. Let's be happy for that!

I'm sorry Ed, but I've been reading this newsgroup
for quite some time. If Mr. V would keep his "crusade
against mountain biking on hiking trails" to just that
I, and many of us would have no quarrel at all with him.

What irks us is that his crusade is really against
all mountain bikes and people who ride them. You,
except for your unreasoning admiration for Mr. V
seem to be fairly reasonable on this subject.

Mr. Vandeman is a purist and I am not. Frankly, I think the world is going
to Hell and there is not much any of us can do to save it. Mr. Vandeman's
esthete does not bother me because I know it is doomed. But still it is nice
to see high standards being upheld by someone.

In the end, it is only a few wilderness areas that will be preserved.
Everything else will be given over to the most crass use of recreation. In a
few more generations, there will be nothing left. Mr. Vandeman is an
optimist and I am a pessimist. Never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


So if you want to get into a philosophical discussion.

I also see the world going to hell. But the future I see is quite
different from seeing those who would put all of nature into a
recreation park. Here's what I see. This was written in response
to a friend of mine inviting me to joint a million people all
having the same thoughts (a new agey kind of thing) about peace
and equality of all people to take place on November 11 of last
year. Also, while I'm not particularly a believer in Abrahamic
religions, I was raised in the traditions so I know the
literature. I also live in a beautiful place as I suspect that
you do also.

----------------------Begin quoting myself:

A proper response requires a book. I may write it someday but not yet. I
may leave it for someone else to write.

A million people is a drop in the bucket.

I have a great problem with the transmission of psychic energy as
proposed by mystics.

Nobody really wants to change the status quo. They just want it to
pertain to more people. And that's the problem.

There is a passage in Matthew
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will
eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more
than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the
air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your
heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27
Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the
field grow. They do not labor or spin.29 Yet I tell you that not even
Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is
how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow
is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little
faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall
we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all
these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But
seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will
be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for
tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

There is also Daniel Quinn's retelling of the Genesis story of Eden and
Cain and Abel.

Humans have an animal nature. When, also being self-aware, they decided
that they could circumvent that nature all hell broke loose
(literally/actually). We survived several million years with "enough".
The release from that concept created both its opposite and its
culmination, poverty and wealth. Poverty is "not enough" and wealth is
"too much". Having not enough causes an individual to want more. Too
much causes an individual to want more. Those with too much also have
power. Power is the invention of the poverty/wealth dichotomy.

To change the human paradigm we must re-define the concept of "enough",
provide every human on earth with that, no more no less. It's possible,
the concept of poverty/wealth has only been with us for maybe 12,000
years out of several million that we've been here.

That being said, a million people thinking the same thought is not going
to change anything. There are what, almost 7 billion people on Earth?
And growing? Most with not enough? It's not going to change given our
current political atmosphere any where on the globe. That many people is
an unsustainable number. There is no way that many people will ever have
enough. It's not possible.

Technology won't do it either. There will be a population tipping point
and it will crash. This will change the paradigm. Whether we like it or
not. When will this happen? I don't know. Technology is keeping us
afloat for the nonce, but it won't continue forever. It will crash.

You and I can take heart that we won't see it. We will finish our lives
in a place of beauty with enough. Our kids? They may be in danger but
probably not. Our grandkids are getting closer. A hundred years? Maybe,
or a thousand years. My prediction is somewhere between the two.

Now there will be survivors. Those who recognize the probability that
there will be a population crash should be quietly developing survival
skills which will work where they are now. The need in many areas will
be to learn a subsistence form of farming which will allow small groups
to survive and prosper with "enough". There needs be no "cash crops" or
other forms for trade, there won't be any.

Learn "enough". Throw out anyone who claims to speak for God, either as
a political leader or a religious leader. Tend your garden, love your
family, respect your community and obey the law of nature.

----------------------End quoting myself.

Per VtSkier:
So if you want to get into a philosophical discussion.

I also see the world going to hell. But the future I see is quite
different from seeing those who would put all of nature into a
recreation park. Here's what I see. This was written in response
to a friend of mine inviting me to joint a million people all
having the same thoughts (a new agey kind of thing) about peace

I'm another cynic/pessimist.

But I temper it with the story about the inventor in the 1800's
that supposedly committed suicide because there was nothing left
to invent.
--
PeteCresswell

On 2/21/2011 10:27 AM, VtSkier wrote:
On 02/20/2011 05:42 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 02/19/2011 12:06 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Mr. Vandeman will continue his crusade against mountain biking on
hiking
trails until the end of time. And I and other folks with brains in
their
heads will be here to support him. Let's be happy for that!

I'm sorry Ed, but I've been reading this newsgroup
for quite some time. If Mr. V would keep his "crusade
against mountain biking on hiking trails" to just that
I, and many of us would have no quarrel at all with him.

What irks us is that his crusade is really against
all mountain bikes and people who ride them. You,
except for your unreasoning admiration for Mr. V
seem to be fairly reasonable on this subject.

Mr. Vandeman is a purist and I am not. Frankly, I think the world is
going
to Hell and there is not much any of us can do to save it. Mr. Vandeman's
esthete does not bother me because I know it is doomed. But still it
is nice
to see high standards being upheld by someone.

In the end, it is only a few wilderness areas that will be preserved.
Everything else will be given over to the most crass use of
recreation. In a
few more generations, there will be nothing left. Mr. Vandeman is an
optimist and I am a pessimist. Never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


So if you want to get into a philosophical discussion.

I also see the world going to hell. But the future I see is quite
different from seeing those who would put all of nature into a
recreation park. Here's what I see. This was written in response
to a friend of mine inviting me to joint a million people all
having the same thoughts (a new agey kind of thing) about peace
and equality of all people to take place on November 11 of last
year. Also, while I'm not particularly a believer in Abrahamic
religions, I was raised in the traditions so I know the
literature. I also live in a beautiful place as I suspect that
you do also.

----------------------Begin quoting myself:

A proper response requires a book. I may write it someday but not yet. I
may leave it for someone else to write.

A million people is a drop in the bucket.

I have a great problem with the transmission of psychic energy as
proposed by mystics.

Nobody really wants to change the status quo. They just want it to
pertain to more people. And that's the problem.

There is a passage in Matthew
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will
eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more
than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the
air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your
heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27
Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field
grow. They do not labor or spin.29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon
in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God
clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is
thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little
faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall
we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all
these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But
seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will
be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for
tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

There is also Daniel Quinn's retelling of the Genesis story of Eden and
Cain and Abel.

Humans have an animal nature. When, also being self-aware, they decided
that they could circumvent that nature all hell broke loose
(literally/actually). We survived several million years with "enough".
The release from that concept created both its opposite and its
culmination, poverty and wealth. Poverty is "not enough" and wealth is
"too much". Having not enough causes an individual to want more. Too
much causes an individual to want more. Those with too much also have
power. Power is the invention of the poverty/wealth dichotomy.

To change the human paradigm we must re-define the concept of "enough",
provide every human on earth with that, no more no less. It's possible,
the concept of poverty/wealth has only been with us for maybe 12,000
years out of several million that we've been here.

That being said, a million people thinking the same thought is not going
to change anything. There are what, almost 7 billion people on Earth?
And growing? Most with not enough? It's not going to change given our
current political atmosphere any where on the globe. That many people is
an unsustainable number. There is no way that many people will ever have
enough. It's not possible.

Technology won't do it either. There will be a population tipping point
and it will crash. This will change the paradigm. Whether we like it or
not. When will this happen? I don't know. Technology is keeping us
afloat for the nonce, but it won't continue forever. It will crash.

You and I can take heart that we won't see it. We will finish our lives
in a place of beauty with enough. Our kids? They may be in danger but
probably not. Our grandkids are getting closer. A hundred years? Maybe,
or a thousand years. My prediction is somewhere between the two.

Now there will be survivors. Those who recognize the probability that
there will be a population crash should be quietly developing survival
skills which will work where they are now. The need in many areas will
be to learn a subsistence form of farming which will allow small groups
to survive and prosper with "enough". There needs be no "cash crops" or
other forms for trade, there won't be any.

Learn "enough". Throw out anyone who claims to speak for God, either as
a political leader or a religious leader. Tend your garden, love your
family, respect your community and obey the law of nature.

----------------------End quoting myself.

The elites have plans to survive, while most of the "worthless eaters"
(the other 99%) die off. That is why those with real power are doing
nothing to stop global climate change or ecological depletion.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 02/21/2011 07:50 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 2/21/2011 10:27 AM, VtSkier wrote:
On 02/20/2011 05:42 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 02/19/2011 12:06 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Mr. Vandeman will continue his crusade against mountain biking on
hiking
trails until the end of time. And I and other folks with brains in
their
heads will be here to support him. Let's be happy for that!

I'm sorry Ed, but I've been reading this newsgroup
for quite some time. If Mr. V would keep his "crusade
against mountain biking on hiking trails" to just that
I, and many of us would have no quarrel at all with him.

What irks us is that his crusade is really against
all mountain bikes and people who ride them. You,
except for your unreasoning admiration for Mr. V
seem to be fairly reasonable on this subject.

Mr. Vandeman is a purist and I am not. Frankly, I think the world is
going
to Hell and there is not much any of us can do to save it. Mr.
Vandeman's
esthete does not bother me because I know it is doomed. But still it
is nice
to see high standards being upheld by someone.

In the end, it is only a few wilderness areas that will be preserved.
Everything else will be given over to the most crass use of
recreation. In a
few more generations, there will be nothing left. Mr. Vandeman is an
optimist and I am a pessimist. Never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


So if you want to get into a philosophical discussion.

I also see the world going to hell. But the future I see is quite
different from seeing those who would put all of nature into a
recreation park. Here's what I see. This was written in response
to a friend of mine inviting me to joint a million people all
having the same thoughts (a new agey kind of thing) about peace
and equality of all people to take place on November 11 of last
year. Also, while I'm not particularly a believer in Abrahamic
religions, I was raised in the traditions so I know the
literature. I also live in a beautiful place as I suspect that
you do also.

----------------------Begin quoting myself:

A proper response requires a book. I may write it someday but not yet. I
may leave it for someone else to write.

A million people is a drop in the bucket.

I have a great problem with the transmission of psychic energy as
proposed by mystics.

Nobody really wants to change the status quo. They just want it to
pertain to more people. And that's the problem.

There is a passage in Matthew
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will
eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more
than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the
air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your
heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27
Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field
grow. They do not labor or spin.29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon
in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God
clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is
thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little
faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall
we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all
these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But
seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will
be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for
tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its
own."

There is also Daniel Quinn's retelling of the Genesis story of Eden and
Cain and Abel.

Humans have an animal nature. When, also being self-aware, they decided
that they could circumvent that nature all hell broke loose
(literally/actually). We survived several million years with "enough".
The release from that concept created both its opposite and its
culmination, poverty and wealth. Poverty is "not enough" and wealth is
"too much". Having not enough causes an individual to want more. Too
much causes an individual to want more. Those with too much also have
power. Power is the invention of the poverty/wealth dichotomy.

To change the human paradigm we must re-define the concept of "enough",
provide every human on earth with that, no more no less. It's possible,
the concept of poverty/wealth has only been with us for maybe 12,000
years out of several million that we've been here.

That being said, a million people thinking the same thought is not going
to change anything. There are what, almost 7 billion people on Earth?
And growing? Most with not enough? It's not going to change given our
current political atmosphere any where on the globe. That many people is
an unsustainable number. There is no way that many people will ever have
enough. It's not possible.

Technology won't do it either. There will be a population tipping point
and it will crash. This will change the paradigm. Whether we like it or
not. When will this happen? I don't know. Technology is keeping us
afloat for the nonce, but it won't continue forever. It will crash.

You and I can take heart that we won't see it. We will finish our lives
in a place of beauty with enough. Our kids? They may be in danger but
probably not. Our grandkids are getting closer. A hundred years? Maybe,
or a thousand years. My prediction is somewhere between the two.

Now there will be survivors. Those who recognize the probability that
there will be a population crash should be quietly developing survival
skills which will work where they are now. The need in many areas will
be to learn a subsistence form of farming which will allow small groups
to survive and prosper with "enough". There needs be no "cash crops" or
other forms for trade, there won't be any.

Learn "enough". Throw out anyone who claims to speak for God, either as
a political leader or a religious leader. Tend your garden, love your
family, respect your community and obey the law of nature.

----------------------End quoting myself.

The elites have plans to survive, while most of the "worthless eaters"
(the other 99%) die off. That is why those with real power are doing
nothing to stop global climate change or ecological depletion.

Well, if the "worthless eaters" die off, there will
be nothing/no one left to exploit. Who takes out the
trash, for instance.

I don't see it that way. The elites will die off
as quickly as anyone else, especially if they don't
have any survival skills, like farming, AND there
won't be anyone left to do it for them.

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
On 02/20/2011 05:42 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 02/19/2011 12:06 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Mr. Vandeman will continue his crusade against mountain biking on
hiking
trails until the end of time. And I and other folks with brains in
their
heads will be here to support him. Let's be happy for that!

I'm sorry Ed, but I've been reading this newsgroup
for quite some time. If Mr. V would keep his "crusade
against mountain biking on hiking trails" to just that
I, and many of us would have no quarrel at all with him.

What irks us is that his crusade is really against
all mountain bikes and people who ride them. You,
except for your unreasoning admiration for Mr. V
seem to be fairly reasonable on this subject.

Mr. Vandeman is a purist and I am not. Frankly, I think the world is
going
to Hell and there is not much any of us can do to save it. Mr. Vandeman's
esthete does not bother me because I know it is doomed. But still it is
nice
to see high standards being upheld by someone.

In the end, it is only a few wilderness areas that will be preserved.
Everything else will be given over to the most crass use of recreation.
In a
few more generations, there will be nothing left. Mr. Vandeman is an
optimist and I am a pessimist. Never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


So if you want to get into a philosophical discussion.

I also see the world going to hell. But the future I see is quite
different from seeing those who would put all of nature into a
recreation park. Here's what I see. This was written in response
to a friend of mine inviting me to joint a million people all
having the same thoughts (a new agey kind of thing) about peace
and equality of all people to take place on November 11 of last
year. Also, while I'm not particularly a believer in Abrahamic
religions, I was raised in the traditions so I know the
literature. I also live in a beautiful place as I suspect that
you do also.

----------------------Begin quoting myself:

A proper response requires a book. I may write it someday but not yet. I
may leave it for someone else to write.

A million people is a drop in the bucket.

I have a great problem with the transmission of psychic energy as proposed
by mystics.

Nobody really wants to change the status quo. They just want it to pertain
to more people. And that's the problem.

There is a passage in Matthew
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat
or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than
food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air;
they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly
Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any
one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the
field grow. They do not labor or spin.29 Yet I tell you that not even
Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is
how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow
is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little
faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we
drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these
things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek
first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be
given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for
tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."

There is also Daniel Quinn's retelling of the Genesis story of Eden and
Cain and Abel.

Humans have an animal nature. When, also being self-aware, they decided
that they could circumvent that nature all hell broke loose
(literally/actually). We survived several million years with "enough". The
release from that concept created both its opposite and its culmination,
poverty and wealth. Poverty is "not enough" and wealth is "too much".
Having not enough causes an individual to want more. Too much causes an
individual to want more. Those with too much also have power. Power is the
invention of the poverty/wealth dichotomy.

To change the human paradigm we must re-define the concept of "enough",
provide every human on earth with that, no more no less. It's possible,
the concept of poverty/wealth has only been with us for maybe 12,000 years
out of several million that we've been here.

That being said, a million people thinking the same thought is not going
to change anything. There are what, almost 7 billion people on Earth? And
growing? Most with not enough? It's not going to change given our current
political atmosphere any where on the globe. That many people is an
unsustainable number. There is no way that many people will ever have
enough. It's not possible.

Technology won't do it either. There will be a population tipping point
and it will crash. This will change the paradigm. Whether we like it or
not. When will this happen? I don't know. Technology is keeping us afloat
for the nonce, but it won't continue forever. It will crash.

You and I can take heart that we won't see it. We will finish our lives in
a place of beauty with enough. Our kids? They may be in danger but
probably not. Our grandkids are getting closer. A hundred years? Maybe, or
a thousand years. My prediction is somewhere between the two.

Now there will be survivors. Those who recognize the probability that
there will be a population crash should be quietly developing survival
skills which will work where they are now. The need in many areas will be
to learn a subsistence form of farming which will allow small groups to
survive and prosper with "enough". There needs be no "cash crops" or other
forms for trade, there won't be any.

Learn "enough". Throw out anyone who claims to speak for God, either as a
political leader or a religious leader. Tend your garden, love your
family, respect your community and obey the law of nature.

----------------------End quoting myself.

I agree! The future looks grim. Glad I won't be here to experience it.
Instead, I will be resting peacefully in the local cemetery.

By the way, expressions of philosophy on Usenet must be short and to the
point. No one will ever read anything the least bit longwinded.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
On 02/21/2011 07:50 PM, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
[...]
The elites have plans to survive, while most of the "worthless eaters"
(the other 99%) die off. That is why those with real power are doing
nothing to stop global climate change or ecological depletion.

Well, if the "worthless eaters" die off, there will
be nothing/no one left to exploit. Who takes out the
trash, for instance.

I don't see it that way. The elites will die off
as quickly as anyone else, especially if they don't
have any survival skills, like farming, AND there
won't be anyone left to do it for them.

Yo have surely got that right VtSkier!

It is no fun being rich if you do not also have power over others. In fact,
liberals-socialists-communists would rather have power over others than be
rich. That is how it has played out everywhere it has been tried. But try to
convince Tom Sherman of that. Nope, it can't be done because he is an
ideologue. It is one of the worst diseases that the human mind is prey to.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
On 18/02/11 17:10, SMS wrote:

He's certainly learned his lesson and will not repeat the (alleged)
behavior that got him into all this trouble. Let's be happy for that.

I'd be happy if that were the case, but.. for some values of
"certainly"... Where has he ever showed any ability to learn about
realities of cycling and cyclists before now?

Mr. Vandeman and I are convinced that mountain bikes have no place on hiking
trails. Nothing is ever going to persuade us any differently. Is that clear
enough!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" " wrote in
message ...

The elites have plans to survive, while most of the "worthless eaters"
(the other 99%) die off. That is why those with real power are doing
nothing to stop global climate change or ecological depletion.

The elites :-) I love the smell of a good conspiracy theory in the morning.

There isn't much we can do about the global climate change. Mother Nature
and all that. Slowing the population growth is the only solution to
ecological depletion. Figure out a way to stop every third world country
from ****ting out so many kids and you will have accomplished something.

On 2/20/2011 1:31 PM, VtSkier wrote:

I'm sorry Ed, but I've been reading this newsgroup
for quite some time. If Mr. V would keep his "crusade
against mountain biking on hiking trails" to just that
I, and many of us would have no quarrel at all with him.

The alleged incident did not take place on a hiking trail, it took place
on a fire road that is signed for no bicycles. There's a big difference
actually. A lot of private land owners that permit public access put up
such signs for liability protection. Without such signs, someone gets
hurt and can claim that the landowner did not warn people about the
condition of the roads.

What irks us is that his crusade is really against
all mountain bikes and people who ride them. You,
except for your unreasoning admiration for Mr. V
seem to be fairly reasonable on this subject.

Vandeman's goal of protecting wilderness has merit. But he's so
_incredibly_ confused about the relative impacts of different activities
on wilderness. Every study on the subject has shown that the impact of
mountain bikers is not any more than the impact of hikers, and less than
that of equestrians, and actually the mountain bike impact is often less
than that of hikers. Vandeman should be redirecting his time and energy
into campaigning against snowmobiles and other motorized off-road vehicles.

The reality is that hikers often make trails unpleasant for use by
mountain bikers and vice-versa. They have to learn to share somehow.
Scheduling some days for each group of users would be fair. It's not a
question of who was there first.