#51
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Gels vs Gatorade
"Terry Morse" wrote
Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Please explain why you think their reasoning is all wrong. I think you answered your own question. |
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#52
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Gels vs Gatorade
In article ,
Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract." This statement totally ignores the fact that complex carbohydrates can't be absorbed from the stomach and GI tract at all - they first have to be broken down into monosaccharides... I don't think this invalidates their comment, but it certainly casts a shadow over the fuild transport situation. They claim that complex carbs will be absorbed at the same 6-8% concentration as simple sugars, but since the carbs have more energy content, they carry with them more fuel. What they don't mention is that the carbs are broken down into simple sugars in the intestine, raising the concentration, which reportedly shuts down the stomach emptying. "This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted. Anyone who has mildly 'bonked' and then been rather quickly revitalized by drinking a coke or other sugar-rich drink will recognize that the sugar didn't just sit in the stomach waiting for them to drink lots of additional water to achieve this dilution. Well, that concentrated sugar solution had to get through the intestinal wall some how, and it can't climb an osmolality gradient to do it. I don't think there are any pumps in the intenstines for moving fluids. From what I understand, when you have a concentrated solution, fluid will flow from the bloodstream into the intestines until the solution is isotonic (same concentration as the body's). When hydration is at a premium, that's probably not a great idea. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#53
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Gels vs Gatorade
In article ,
Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract." This statement totally ignores the fact that complex carbohydrates can't be absorbed from the stomach and GI tract at all - they first have to be broken down into monosaccharides... I don't think this invalidates their comment, but it certainly casts a shadow over the fuild transport situation. They claim that complex carbs will be absorbed at the same 6-8% concentration as simple sugars, but since the carbs have more energy content, they carry with them more fuel. What they don't mention is that the carbs are broken down into simple sugars in the intestine, raising the concentration, which reportedly shuts down the stomach emptying. "This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted. Anyone who has mildly 'bonked' and then been rather quickly revitalized by drinking a coke or other sugar-rich drink will recognize that the sugar didn't just sit in the stomach waiting for them to drink lots of additional water to achieve this dilution. Well, that concentrated sugar solution had to get through the intestinal wall some how, and it can't climb an osmolality gradient to do it. I don't think there are any pumps in the intenstines for moving fluids. From what I understand, when you have a concentrated solution, fluid will flow from the bloodstream into the intestines until the solution is isotonic (same concentration as the body's). When hydration is at a premium, that's probably not a great idea. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#54
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Gels vs Gatorade
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
Terry Morse wrote: - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. You were arguning with me based on an advertisement? That's funny. Arguments produce understanding. Actually, the referenced article was written by Steve Born, who is a technical advisor to E-CAPS. He references the work of Bill Misner, PhD (nutrition). Maybe you would like to refute some of the claims? It's even funnier to argue with Coggan based on that. I'm drawing him out, hoping to get a second opinion. Prediction: he's going to tell you to look it up in pubmed or another online database of real science. There's nothing I've found in Pubmed that compares maltodextrin with glucose or fructose, although there are a few studies that compare maltodextrin with plain water. Not surprisingly, maltodextrin wins. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#55
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Gels vs Gatorade
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
Terry Morse wrote: - S. Born, "The Endurance Athlete's Guide to Suceess", an E-Caps/Hammer Nutrition publication Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. You were arguning with me based on an advertisement? That's funny. Arguments produce understanding. Actually, the referenced article was written by Steve Born, who is a technical advisor to E-CAPS. He references the work of Bill Misner, PhD (nutrition). Maybe you would like to refute some of the claims? It's even funnier to argue with Coggan based on that. I'm drawing him out, hoping to get a second opinion. Prediction: he's going to tell you to look it up in pubmed or another online database of real science. There's nothing I've found in Pubmed that compares maltodextrin with glucose or fructose, although there are a few studies that compare maltodextrin with plain water. Not surprisingly, maltodextrin wins. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#56
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Gels vs Gatorade
Peter Cole wrote:
"Terry Morse" wrote Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Please explain why you think their reasoning is all wrong. I think you answered your own question. Not good enough. Arguments still must be refuted or validated, regardless of who makes them. Too many arguments these days are shrugged off with the "bias" label, "you're biased so any claims you make are nonsense". Nonsense. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#57
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Gels vs Gatorade
Peter Cole wrote:
"Terry Morse" wrote Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Please explain why you think their reasoning is all wrong. I think you answered your own question. Not good enough. Arguments still must be refuted or validated, regardless of who makes them. Too many arguments these days are shrugged off with the "bias" label, "you're biased so any claims you make are nonsense". Nonsense. -- terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/ |
#58
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
In article , Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract." This statement totally ignores the fact that complex carbohydrates can't be absorbed from the stomach and GI tract at all - they first have to be broken down into monosaccharides... I don't think this invalidates their comment, but it certainly casts a shadow over the fuild transport situation. They claim that complex carbs will be absorbed at the same 6-8% concentration as simple sugars, but since the carbs have more energy content, they carry with them more fuel. What they don't mention is that the carbs are broken down into simple sugars in the intestine, raising the concentration, which reportedly shuts down the stomach emptying. Of course they don't mention that since it destroys their whole argument. Complex carbohydrates aren't absorbed at any concentration so the way you get the fastest absorption is to start with monosaccharides that don't have to be broken down first. Adding additional steps won't speed up the process. "This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted. Anyone who has mildly 'bonked' and then been rather quickly revitalized by drinking a coke or other sugar-rich drink will recognize that the sugar didn't just sit in the stomach waiting for them to drink lots of additional water to achieve this dilution. Well, that concentrated sugar solution had to get through the intestinal wall some how, and it can't climb an osmolality gradient to do it. I don't think there are any pumps in the intenstines for moving fluids. As quoted befo http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hboo...b_sugars.html: "Particularly important dietary carbohydrates include starch and disaccharides such as lactose and sucrose. None of these molecules can be absorbed for the simple reason that they cannot cross cell membranes unaided and, unlike the situation for monosaccharides, there are no transporters to carry them across." Those transporters do act as a form of pump for getting the monosaccharides (molecules - not fluids) into the bloodstream. But in any event, the gradient in this case is in the right direction - you have a higher sugar concentration in the intestines so there will be a natural tendency to get it into the bloodstream where the concentration is lower. From what I understand, when you have a concentrated solution, fluid will flow from the bloodstream into the intestines until the solution is isotonic (same concentration as the body's). When hydration is at a premium, that's probably not a great idea. That's the standard osmotic pressure with a semipermeable membrance that permits water to pass but blocks the dissolved substance. But in this case the monosaccharides are able to pass through the intestinal wall membrance. So the concentration can equalize just by moving the sugar molecules into the bloodstream. |
#59
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
In article , Peter wrote: Terry Morse wrote: "Just as important, though, is the fact that simple sugars, unlike complex carbohydrates, take longer and require more fluid to empty from the stomach and GI tract." This statement totally ignores the fact that complex carbohydrates can't be absorbed from the stomach and GI tract at all - they first have to be broken down into monosaccharides... I don't think this invalidates their comment, but it certainly casts a shadow over the fuild transport situation. They claim that complex carbs will be absorbed at the same 6-8% concentration as simple sugars, but since the carbs have more energy content, they carry with them more fuel. What they don't mention is that the carbs are broken down into simple sugars in the intestine, raising the concentration, which reportedly shuts down the stomach emptying. Of course they don't mention that since it destroys their whole argument. Complex carbohydrates aren't absorbed at any concentration so the way you get the fastest absorption is to start with monosaccharides that don't have to be broken down first. Adding additional steps won't speed up the process. "This is due to a physiological feature known as osmolality...If the osmolality of your sports drink deviates from body fluid levels, it will not absorb. A simple sugar drink will only match regular body fluid osmolality at a very weak 6-8% concentration; otherwise, it will remain in the stomach until sufficiently diluted. Anyone who has mildly 'bonked' and then been rather quickly revitalized by drinking a coke or other sugar-rich drink will recognize that the sugar didn't just sit in the stomach waiting for them to drink lots of additional water to achieve this dilution. Well, that concentrated sugar solution had to get through the intestinal wall some how, and it can't climb an osmolality gradient to do it. I don't think there are any pumps in the intenstines for moving fluids. As quoted befo http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hboo...b_sugars.html: "Particularly important dietary carbohydrates include starch and disaccharides such as lactose and sucrose. None of these molecules can be absorbed for the simple reason that they cannot cross cell membranes unaided and, unlike the situation for monosaccharides, there are no transporters to carry them across." Those transporters do act as a form of pump for getting the monosaccharides (molecules - not fluids) into the bloodstream. But in any event, the gradient in this case is in the right direction - you have a higher sugar concentration in the intestines so there will be a natural tendency to get it into the bloodstream where the concentration is lower. From what I understand, when you have a concentrated solution, fluid will flow from the bloodstream into the intestines until the solution is isotonic (same concentration as the body's). When hydration is at a premium, that's probably not a great idea. That's the standard osmotic pressure with a semipermeable membrance that permits water to pass but blocks the dissolved substance. But in this case the monosaccharides are able to pass through the intestinal wall membrance. So the concentration can equalize just by moving the sugar molecules into the bloodstream. |
#60
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Gels vs Gatorade
Terry Morse wrote:
Peter Cole wrote: "Terry Morse" wrote Granted, this is coming from a company that's trying to sell its own line of sports nutrition products. Please explain why you think their reasoning is all wrong. I think you answered your own question. Not good enough. Arguments still must be refuted or validated, regardless of who makes them. Indeed, but there isn't an argument in what you posted, merely an assertion. -- David Damerell Kill the tomato! |
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