Sue or go bankrupt?

On 7/1/2019 3:00 AM, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with John B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:46:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/30/2019 11:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/29/2019 8:59 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:37:29 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 9:25:53 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:46:08 -0700, Chalo wrote:

*SKIP*
The "armed resistance to enslavement" that Canada has seems to be
sufficient. But to me, the "armed resistance" of the U.S. seems
grossly excessive.
The U.S. runs around all over the world bragging about their
democratic government and bemoaning the fact that "that country"
doesn't have a democratic system "like we do" and now someone talks
about "armed resistance" ... to a system that the U.S. promotes
internationally?

See it this way. This 'democratic government' is so stable that it's
okay with 'armed resistance'. Now, if US sells someone idea of The DG
the implementation couldn't possibly be stable without The AR. So
unfortunate implementors will absolutely need The AR (for sake of
stability). So emerges new marketplace.

*CUT*


Make your choice.
I'd rather be a free Swiss than an enslaved Tibetan.
YMMV

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/1/2019 9:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/1/2019 3:00 AM, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with John B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:46:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/30/2019 11:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/29/2019 8:59 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:37:29 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 9:25:53 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:46:08 -0700, Chalo wrote:

*SKIP*
The "armed resistance to enslavement" that Canada has seems to be
sufficient. But to me, the "armed resistance" of the U.S. seems
grossly excessive.
The U.S. runs around all over the world bragging about their
democratic government and bemoaning the fact that "that country"
doesn't have a democratic system "like we do" and now someone talks
about "armed resistance"Â* ... to a system that the U.S. promotes
internationally?

See it this way.Â* This 'democratic government' is so stable that it's
okay with 'armed resistance'.Â* Now, if US sells someone idea of The DG
the implementation couldn't possibly be stable without The AR.Â* So
unfortunate implementors will absolutely need The AR (for sake of
stability).Â* So emerges new marketplace.

*CUT*


Make your choice.
I'd rather be a free Swiss than an enslaved Tibetan.
YMMV

There are also the free Canadians, Irish, Brits, French, Dutch, Germans,
Austrians, etc. etc. Freedom doesn't seem to require a "well regulated
militia," let alone a mass of undisciplined gun nuts.

the U.S. does have the National Guard, but about 99.9% of American gun
owners have nothing to do with it, nor with any other "well regulated"
group.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 10:57:48 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/1/2019 9:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/1/2019 3:00 AM, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with John B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:46:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/30/2019 11:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/29/2019 8:59 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:37:29 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 9:25:53 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:46:08 -0700, Chalo wrote:

*SKIP*
The "armed resistance to enslavement" that Canada has seems to be
sufficient. But to me, the "armed resistance" of the U.S. seems
grossly excessive.
The U.S. runs around all over the world bragging about their
democratic government and bemoaning the fact that "that country"
doesn't have a democratic system "like we do" and now someone talks
about "armed resistance"Â* ... to a system that the U.S. promotes
internationally?

See it this way.Â* This 'democratic government' is so stable that it's
okay with 'armed resistance'.Â* Now, if US sells someone idea of The DG
the implementation couldn't possibly be stable without The AR.Â* So
unfortunate implementors will absolutely need The AR (for sake of
stability).Â* So emerges new marketplace.

*CUT*


Make your choice.
I'd rather be a free Swiss than an enslaved Tibetan.
YMMV

There are also the free Canadians, Irish, Brits, French, Dutch, Germans,
Austrians, etc. etc. Freedom doesn't seem to require a "well regulated
militia," let alone a mass of undisciplined gun nuts.

the U.S. does have the National Guard, but about 99.9% of American gun
owners have nothing to do with it, nor with any other "well regulated"
group.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah heck. Seeing as this is no longer bicycling tech. VBEG LOL My understanding is that the US National Guard was supposed to be deployed ONLY on US soil. Is that so and if it is what happened so t hat the Guard is used overseas?

Cheers

On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 5:46:10 AM UTC-4, Chalo wrote:
Thing is, a ped is wildly unlikely to hurt anyone by running into them. So it's not the ped's ethical responsibility to mitigate the risk that's being imposed unilaterally by a cyclist, the same way it's not a cyclist's ethical duty to mitigate the lethal risks unilaterally imposed by car drivers..

The one who brings the hazard into a situation is the one responsible if anybody gets hurt. That's basic golden-rule level stuff. Exporting responsibility to the victims is just wrong.

Except that the pedestrian is the one that created the situation by irresponsible behavior.

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 9:20:14 AM UTC-7, Zen Cycle wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 5:46:10 AM UTC-4, Chalo wrote:
Thing is, a ped is wildly unlikely to hurt anyone by running into them. So it's not the ped's ethical responsibility to mitigate the risk that's being imposed unilaterally by a cyclist, the same way it's not a cyclist's ethical duty to mitigate the lethal risks unilaterally imposed by car drivers.

The one who brings the hazard into a situation is the one responsible if anybody gets hurt. That's basic golden-rule level stuff. Exporting responsibility to the victims is just wrong.

Except that the pedestrian is the one that created the situation by irresponsible behavior.

Yes, "Golden Rule level stuff" would be comparative fault. That's how we behave intuitively (putting aside supposed "ethics") -- "yes, I'm sorry I right hooked you with my car, but WTF were you doing driving an eScooter down a gap between parked cars and traffic at 20mph?" Although I disapprove of polluting our fine river, I understand the sentiment: https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019...tte-river.html But throwing Biketown bikes in the river? Sacrilege!

I see cyclists doing stupid stuff every day -- multiply that by 10 for all the eStupid transportation devices. If I get hit while doing something stupid, that's on me. That's a risk I take. And when cars do stupid stuff, that's on them.

What Chalo is getting at is maliciousness, and the ability to magnify maliciousness with a big machine -- but that is psychopathology and not a problem with the laws. Nothing in the UVC allows drivers to act out with cars. If people learned the rules and followed them -- and took Xanax, then most accidents would be avoided, assuming no serious side-effects like falling asleep at the wheel. Maybe Adderall and Xanax! Relaxed, yet vigilant!

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 11:44:23 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 17:27:39 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 05:24:34 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 12:18:39 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 03:59:35 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 03:57:04 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:06:58 -0500, AMuzi
wrote:

On 6/30/2019 3:53 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 00:00:21 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

John B. wrote:

You, apparently, are in the minority with this theory.

So were abolitionists. They were right.

If you are talking about U.S. history, of the 34 states in 1861 19
were free states.


A not-unrelated observation in that before oil energy all the world
ran on slavery, draft animals and dung in the streets.

Well, dung in the streets wasn't really a fundamental factor in
cavitation :-)
On other hand, dung in the streets gave a lot of otherwise
unemployed people a chance to "make a buck" by sweeping places where
people walked so perhaps it was a useful factor :-)

And the roses were so much better.

In 1900 there were an estimated 50,000 horses used for transportation
in the city of London. As each horse produces 15 to 35 pounds of
manure, and about 2 pints of urine per day, that was 750 tons of
manure and 12,500 gallons of urine every single day.

Never mind the roses, get the broom! And the mop!

Nope, if there were roses everywhere, the free droppings would be
shovelled off the streets gratis.

Think a little. Where would you shovel it to?

Sheesh, all the rose gardens alog the road.

The main problem with the manure was that it would take a considerable
number of teams and wagons to haul what you sweep up and get it to
somewhere that you can dump it. A typical heavy freight wagon will carry
about 6 tons and requires a 8 horse team to haul that weight.

Now you're definitely making a mountain out of droppings. and as London,
and many other cxities didn't disappear under it, there must have been a
workable solution.

Strange that you are so sure of yourself in 2019, while the people
who were there "on the ground" so to speak, couldn't find a solution.
In 1898 the first international urban-planning conference convened in
New York. It was abandoned after three days, instead of the scheduled
ten, because none of the delegates could see any solution to the
growing crisis posed by urban horses and their output.

Writing in the Times of London in 1894, one writer estimated that in
50 years every street in London would be buried under nine feet of
manure.

see:
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryU...risis-of-1894/
https://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2011...anure-problem/
https://www.nyhistory.org/community/horse-manure



miles a day and London is a large place, about 122 square miles in 1851,
which could be an 11 mile trip from the center of town to the outskirts

Hint, I think you need to revist your olde map of London. There were lots
of gardens in the city centre. Even now, we don't pave a location from
horizon to horizon, but the food growing has moved to the outer suburbs.

If that was true than why was there such a problem? Again the folks
that were actually there certainly felt that there was a problem,:

As for garden space, London was a much older and more densely
populated than New York City but in New York the population density
rose from 39,183 per square mile in 1800 to 90,366 per square mile in
1900. An increase of some 230% in population. Space for gardens was,
apparently, in short supply and rapidly growing shorter.

As I wrote previously, simply waving your hand and mouthing platitudes
seldom provides a solution.

And yes, a solution was found. The internal combustion engine.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:57:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/1/2019 9:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/1/2019 3:00 AM, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with John B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:46:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/30/2019 11:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/29/2019 8:59 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:37:29 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 9:25:53 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:46:08 -0700, Chalo wrote:

*SKIP*
The "armed resistance to enslavement" that Canada has seems to be
sufficient. But to me, the "armed resistance" of the U.S. seems
grossly excessive.
The U.S. runs around all over the world bragging about their
democratic government and bemoaning the fact that "that country"
doesn't have a democratic system "like we do" and now someone talks
about "armed resistance"* ... to a system that the U.S. promotes
internationally?

See it this way.* This 'democratic government' is so stable that it's
okay with 'armed resistance'.* Now, if US sells someone idea of The DG
the implementation couldn't possibly be stable without The AR.* So
unfortunate implementors will absolutely need The AR (for sake of
stability).* So emerges new marketplace.

*CUT*


Make your choice.
I'd rather be a free Swiss than an enslaved Tibetan.
YMMV

There are also the free Canadians, Irish, Brits, French, Dutch, Germans,
Austrians, etc. etc. Freedom doesn't seem to require a "well regulated
militia," let alone a mass of undisciplined gun nuts.

the U.S. does have the National Guard, but about 99.9% of American gun
owners have nothing to do with it, nor with any other "well regulated"
group.

True, but when the Bill of Rights was written conditions were a great
deal different than they are today. The "Continental Army", for
example, was wholly comprised of state militias and when it was
suggested that a national army, or national militia, be formed the
First Continental Congress rejected the idea.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 08:10:12 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 10:57:48 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/1/2019 9:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/1/2019 3:00 AM, Eric Pozharski wrote:
with John B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:46:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 6/30/2019 11:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 6/29/2019 8:59 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:37:29 +0700, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
On Friday, June 28, 2019 at 9:25:53 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:46:08 -0700, Chalo wrote:

*SKIP*
The "armed resistance to enslavement" that Canada has seems to be
sufficient. But to me, the "armed resistance" of the U.S. seems
grossly excessive.
The U.S. runs around all over the world bragging about their
democratic government and bemoaning the fact that "that country"
doesn't have a democratic system "like we do" and now someone talks
about "armed resistance"* ... to a system that the U.S. promotes
internationally?

See it this way.* This 'democratic government' is so stable that it's
okay with 'armed resistance'.* Now, if US sells someone idea of The DG
the implementation couldn't possibly be stable without The AR.* So
unfortunate implementors will absolutely need The AR (for sake of
stability).* So emerges new marketplace.

*CUT*


Make your choice.
I'd rather be a free Swiss than an enslaved Tibetan.
YMMV

There are also the free Canadians, Irish, Brits, French, Dutch, Germans,
Austrians, etc. etc. Freedom doesn't seem to require a "well regulated
militia," let alone a mass of undisciplined gun nuts.

the U.S. does have the National Guard, but about 99.9% of American gun
owners have nothing to do with it, nor with any other "well regulated"
group.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah heck. Seeing as this is no longer bicycling tech. VBEG LOL My understanding is that the US National Guard was supposed to be deployed ONLY on US soil. Is that so and if it is what happened so t hat the Guard is used overseas?

No that is not correct. While the National Guard can be thought of as
state armed forces it can be mobilized for federal active duty to
supplement regular armed forces during times of war or national
emergency declared by Congress, the President or the Secretary of
Defense.

--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 07:57:17 +0700, John B. wrote:


Nope, if there were roses everywhere, the free droppings would be
shovelled off the streets gratis.

Think a little. Where would you shovel it to?

Sheesh, all the rose gardens along the road.

The main problem with the manure was that it would take a considerable
number of teams and wagons to haul what you sweep up and get it to
somewhere that you can dump it. A typical heavy freight wagon will
carry about 6 tons and requires a 8 horse team to haul that weight.

Now you're definitely making a mountain out of droppings. and as London,
and many other cxities didn't disappear under it, there must have been a
workable solution.

Strange that you are so sure of yourself in 2019, while the people who
were there "on the ground" so to speak, couldn't find a solution.
In 1898 the first international urban-planning conference convened in
New York. It was abandoned after three days, instead of the scheduled
ten, because none of the delegates could see any solution to the growing
crisis posed by urban horses and their output.

Writing in the Times of London in 1894, one writer estimated that in 50
years every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure.

Credibility? If you look hard enough, you'll find some one who agrees
with you.

Obviously the soltuin, if it was ever needed was found and it was so
simple that no one bothered to record it.

You do realise that you've missed the best comback; they didn't solve it,
the london of modern days is built on the remaind os the old London
covered with the droppings of horses.

In any case, the solution was bicycle, which do not leave as much manure
behind. behind

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019 09:38:54 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:57:44 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/1/2019 9:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Make your choice.
I'd rather be a free Swiss than an enslaved Tibetan.
YMMV

There are also the free Canadians, Irish, Brits, French, Dutch, Germans,
Austrians, etc. etc. Freedom doesn't seem to require a "well regulated
militia," let alone a mass of undisciplined gun nuts.

the U.S. does have the National Guard, but about 99.9% of American gun
owners have nothing to do with it, nor with any other "well regulated"
group.

True, but when the Bill of Rights was written conditions were a great
deal different than they are today. The "Continental Army", for example,
was wholly comprised of state militias and when it was suggested that
a national army, or national militia, be formed the First Continental
Congress rejected the idea.

There in is probably the whole justification for the right to bear arms;
to enable the formation of state militia to defend the state and nation.
similar to feudal times, when "the king" could request the barons(states)
to provide levies for his service.