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A March on Washington... on Bicycle?



 
 
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  #101  
Old November 19th 08, 05:52 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default You expect Obama to change America, or just waiting for Jesus?


"KingOfTheApes" wrote in message
...
[...]
You expect Obama to change America, or just waiting for Jesus?


Sometimes too much expection can lead to disillusion, and disillusion

can lead to the Republican Party, so we better become realistic as to
what the real chances are of this brand-new President changing
America.

An unsurmountable debt, two wars, global rising temperatures as well

as tough budgets can make his good performance more of a miracle, and
we know how's the only only that can do miracles...

You quiescing, dancing, subjective wretch. You are a disbelieving,
smegma-encrusted, self-defeating impugner. You are less than a moiling,
forsaken, gusseted wet blanket. You fussing, dotty, off-base toe-jam.
You collapsing, poltroon, tottering farmhand. You gurgling, hueless,
****ing adenoid. You gulping, incognisant, distressed herpes sufferer.
You absconding, squinting, villainous frump. You misconstruing,
bottle-fed, debilitated hand job. You mollifying, fuggy, indigent pile
of faeces. You belaboring, babbling, horsey duck. You excruciating,
milk-livered, babyish drug baron. You gasifying, grungy, hulking retard.
You are a pasturing, pearl necklace-wearing, pettifogging gallows bird.
You foraging, free-swimming, jingling malkin. You are a pumicating,
lacklustre, over-exposed licker. You are a misling, stuck-up, vile
yoghurt eater. You are a nidulating, obsessive-compulsive, potty dog's
groin. You postulating, hygienically challenged, hermaphrodite
fat-mouth. You fagoting, reactionary, ill-formed bat. You are a
sniggling, close-cropped, right-angled knockwurst. You are a pumicating,
red-faced, ladylike corpse. You are a goggling, repugnant, xenophobic
hogfish.


****ing Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


Ads
  #102  
Old November 19th 08, 09:42 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

KingOfTheApes wrote:

I may be excused from not interpreting your long answer but are not
from not interpreting my short worded solutions...

BIKE FACILITIES (bike lanes and bike facilities) AND/OR TRAFFIC
TAMING.


You can shout all you want, but that isn't the key to safety. The key
to safety is mutual respect between road users.

This side of the Atlantic we are sort of in the Wild West when it
comes to traffic safety: NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO CONTROL OVER CELL
PHONES, UNREGULATED VEHICLES (SUV'S with deadly bumpers)... and LOTS
OF SPEEDING TICKETS.


The bike facilities doesn't get you out of accidents happening at
junctions because if you want your "facilities" to go anywhere useful
they'll have to intersect with the roads, and so when the bikes are on
the roads the lack of awareness drivers have of bikes will be
exaggerated by their being fewer bikes /except/ at the junctions.

SUVs with deadly bumpers... well, even with "safe" bumpers the real key
is not colliding with vehicles at all. The key to that is mutual
respect, and you don't get that from bike lanes, and any "taming" of the
traffic you otherwise do is coloured by bikes being out of the equation
except at the most dangerous points (junctions).

You think Obama will change that?


No.

I'm also pretty sure that ghettoising cyclists onto half-baked
"facilities" (and experience suggests that outside of places with
existing bicycle culture like NL, Denmark, Germany etc. they *will* be
half baked) won't help either.

No great shortage of "facilities" round here. It's usually quicker and
safer for me to take the roads.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #103  
Old November 19th 08, 09:45 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

Tom Keats wrote:

Which part of NL? Amsterdam?

What about the rest of NL?


There didn't seem to be any shortage of grocery shoppers doing the
rounds by bike in Den Haag or Alkmaar when I was there a week ago.

Places I've been in NL where it wouldn't really work are the places
where there's no bike paths anyway, rather than impractical ones.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #104  
Old November 19th 08, 02:42 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

Phil W Lee wrote:
Peter Clinch considered Wed, 19 Nov 2008
08:45:14 +0000 the perfect time to write:

Tom Keats wrote:

Which part of NL? Amsterdam?

What about the rest of NL?

There didn't seem to be any shortage of grocery shoppers doing the
rounds by bike in Den Haag or Alkmaar when I was there a week ago.

Places I've been in NL where it wouldn't really work are the places
where there's no bike paths anyway, rather than impractical ones.

And that would only stop the locals from doing their shopping by bike
path, not by bike-on-road - which many people choose to do even in the
areas that bike paths are available.


Quite so: I didn't mean to imply that with no bike paths you can't shop
safely by bike, just that you can't use a bike path that isn't there.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #105  
Old November 19th 08, 04:02 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
KingOfTheApes
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Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 18, 9:59*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * KingOfTheApes writes:





On Nov 18, 7:33*pm, Dane Buson wrote:
In rec.bicycles.misc Tom Sherman wrote:


Dane Buson wrote:


Hello again, I took a wee hiatus when I couldn't be arsed to reconfigure
my leafnode server after a HD change and OS upgrade. *I've been more
than slightly busy with life, but decided to come back and poke around
the newsgroups some.


PLEASE! Usenet is more important than life!


Unforunately neither my boss nor bill collectors would be much inclined
to agree I'm thinking. *And I'm not quite as fond of pig-wrestling as
you are. *Still, I've been posting to the rb.* hierarchy for seven
years, I probably should stick around a little longer.


I think Internet is so important that I'd hesitate to go to Heaven if
it didn't have Internet.
But some of the posters here seem to be brain dead. Particulary Dr.
Evil writing from Hell.


Sometimes you're sadly amusing.


And slightly entertaining.

Who's going to change this beast to admit bicycles, scooters, EVs and
other small vehicles?

Only Jesus or the revolution can, right?

  #106  
Old November 19th 08, 04:10 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 19, 3:42*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
KingOfTheApes wrote:
I may be excused from not interpreting your long answer but are not
from not interpreting my short worded solutions...


BIKE FACILITIES (bike lanes and bike facilities) AND/OR TRAFFIC
TAMING.


You can shout all you want, but that isn't the key to safety. *The key
to safety is mutual respect between road users.


Well, this based on subjective appreciation. I think good drivers
begin with education but ultimately depend on enforcement. So going
back to my favorite metaphor, WE NEED THE BANANA (the treat) AND THE
WHIP TO TAME THE BEAST.


This side of the Atlantic we are sort of in the Wild West when it
comes to traffic safety: NO LANE DISCIPLINE, NO CONTROL OVER CELL
PHONES, UNREGULATED VEHICLES (SUV'S with deadly bumpers)... and LOTS
OF SPEEDING TICKETS.


The bike facilities doesn't get you out of accidents happening at
junctions because if you want your "facilities" to go anywhere useful
they'll have to intersect with the roads, and so when the bikes are on
the roads the lack of awareness drivers have of bikes will be
exaggerated by their being fewer bikes /except/ at the junctions.

SUVs with deadly bumpers... well, even with "safe" bumpers the real key
is not colliding with vehicles at all. *The key to that is mutual
respect, and you don't get that from bike lanes, and any "taming" of the
traffic you otherwise do is coloured by bikes being out of the equation
except at the most dangerous points (junctions).


Only way to solve this conflict is put cameras on main intersections.
Any sort of bullying would cost the predator dearly ($$$)... to fund
more bike facilities.


You think Obama will change that?


No.


I guess only Jesus can, huh? Too bad for those who don't believe
there's a Jesus. Well luckily, there's a revolution around.


I'm also pretty sure that ghettoising cyclists onto half-baked
"facilities" (and experience suggests that outside of places with
existing bicycle culture like NL, Denmark, Germany etc. they *will* be
half baked) won't help either.

No great shortage of "facilities" round here. *It's usually quicker and
safer for me to take the roads.


OK, HAVING OPTIONS sounds good to me, and whether there's bike
facilities or not, you should be able to ride wherever you wish.
  #107  
Old November 19th 08, 04:38 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

KingOfTheApes wrote:

Well, this based on subjective appreciation. I think good drivers
begin with education but ultimately depend on enforcement. So going
back to my favorite metaphor, WE NEED THE BANANA (the treat) AND THE
WHIP TO TAME THE BEAST.


So where does that need bike paths?

I guess only Jesus can, huh?


No.

Too bad for those who don't believe
there's a Jesus. Well luckily, there's a revolution around.


a) there isn't, and b) even if there were it would be missing the point
creating bike paths.

OK, HAVING OPTIONS sounds good to me, and whether there's bike
facilities or not, you should be able to ride wherever you wish.


Absolutely, but if you insist on creating bike paths with your
"revolution" you'll find yourself being pushed onto them whether you
like it or not. Why do I think that? That's what experience shows me
happens. It required extensive lobbying by the CTC (UK's biggest
cyclists' organisation) to get rid of a word-change to the Highway Code
that would say cyclists should use "facilities" wherever possible. That
it succeeeded in quashing the revision shows that a bit of democracy in
action can work, but that it was necessary to do it shows that creating
bike paths tends to limit options rather than expand them.

I'm afraid if you want real results you hhave to deal with relaity,
rather than dreams.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #108  
Old November 19th 08, 06:15 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 19, 10:38*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
KingOfTheApes wrote:
Well, this based on subjective appreciation. I think good drivers
begin with education but ultimately depend on enforcement. So going
back to my favorite metaphor, WE NEED THE BANANA (the treat) AND THE
WHIP TO TAME THE BEAST.


So where does that need bike paths?

I guess only Jesus can, huh?


No.


OK, let's say not everybody is "tough." Let's admit some people are
"chicken" or that they are just bothered by traffic noise... so they
need bike paths. Let's assume also that families with kids are not
tough enough for the roads, so they can have an space along the
ckicken.


*Too bad for those who don't believe
there's a Jesus. Well luckily, there's a revolution around.


a) there isn't, and b) even if there were it would be missing the point
creating bike paths.


Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.


OK, HAVING OPTIONS sounds good to me, and whether there's bike
facilities or not, you should be able to ride wherever you wish.


Absolutely, but if you insist on creating bike paths with your
"revolution" you'll find yourself being pushed onto them whether you
like it or not. *Why do I think that? *That's what experience shows me
happens. *It required extensive lobbying by the CTC (UK's biggest
cyclists' organisation) to get rid of a word-change to the Highway Code
that would say cyclists should use "facilities" wherever possible. *That
it succeeeded in quashing the revision shows that a bit of democracy in
action can work, but that it was necessary to do it shows that creating
bike paths tends to limit options rather than expand them.

I'm afraid if you want real results you hhave to deal with relaity,
rather than dreams.


Dreams sometimes become reality and sometimes become nightmares. Which
is good always go back to good-ol'-fashinoned Orwell.

Forgive me this revolutionary rhetoric...

Originally Posted by Lamplight

I was actually thinking more along the lines of executing the
aristocrats and walking around calling each other "citizen".

***

No, a bloody revolution would make as much sense as the war in Iraq,
which is to say we don't need it.

This is more along the lines of Gandhi and King, who were inspired by
Jesus, whether he existed or not.

So Christians are welcome, Muslims are welcome (because we don't agree
with the West nor with the terrorists), and, of course, the proles are
welcome since this a revolution largely inspired by Orwell's
animalism, thus we will call each other, "Hey brother monkey!"

WHY ANIMALS? Thank Orwell in large part...

'Orwell agreed with Marx's social arguments, but as we will later see,
disagreed on many of his other beliefs. In Animal Farm, we can see his
depictions as man as a social animal and his Socialist ideologies
through old Major's very Marxist speech in the barn: "Why... do we
continue in this miserable condition? Because nearly the whole of the
produce of our labour is stolen from us by human beings. There,
comrades, is the answer to all our problems: It is summed up in a
single word ‹ Man. "Man is the only creature that consumes without
producing... He sets [the animals] to work, he gives back to them the
bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he
keeps for himself... "Only get rid of Man, and the produce of our
labour would be our own... That is my message to you, comrades:
Rebellion!'

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2074/orwell.htm


  #109  
Old November 19th 08, 06:28 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

(No we don't need with Lenin and Mao)

Originally Posted by cyclezealot
"We are not into violence.. Let's have no Soviet/French style
revolution with blood in the streets. Can we turn Bush's scores of
jails set up about the country under his War Commissions Act into 're-
education centers, ' for the non-believers..."


I think what we can learn from Russia is a bloodless Perestroika! From
the French we can learn their passion for "the simple pleasures of
life," free time (35 hour workweek) and good food, which are all in
line with our Epicurean revolution (thus the names of food for it).

The nonbelievers though should be re-educated on SAVING ENERGY, and
made to commute by bike at least 1 day a week.
  #110  
Old November 19th 08, 06:37 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

KingOfTheApes wrote:

OK, let's say not everybody is "tough." Let's admit some people are
"chicken" or that they are just bothered by traffic noise... so they
need bike paths. Let's assume also that families with kids are not
tough enough for the roads, so they can have an space along the
ckicken.


Look at the NL, again. Plenty of places with no fietspads, yet
still families and kids out on bikes. Which takes you back to
respect being more important than bike paths.

Of course, it woudn't be a revolution to create bike paths but to
protect the weaker species of the capitalist jungle, ie, those who are
unwilling or unable to drive SUVs.


How many times does it have to be pointed out to you that unless
you can get rid of junctions between roads and bike paths, and you
can't, bike paths don't protect you from SUVs, or indeed any other
traffic passing through junctions. And the more bikes aren't part
of their more general road experience the more dangerous those
junctions will be.

Bike paths have their place, can be useful and can certainly be
pleasurable, but they're not much of an answer to cycling safety.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 




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