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#11
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Velodrome banking helps how?
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:25:36 GMT, Dan Connelly
wrote: Kinky Cowboy wrote: On 23 Jan 2006 08:57:19 -0800, wrote: I agree with your assumption that a straight 1km TT on a velodrome type surface would be at least as fast as a normal velodrome. Why? On a velodrome, the tyre contact has to travel 1km, but the CG of the rider travels a bit less due to taking a tighter radius through the turns. This amounts to several metres per kilometre, and applies to the centre of pressure as well. Although the rolling resistance on the velodrome is higher, due to the increased normal load on the contact patches through the turns plus some camber drag/scrub as the bike is rarely exactly normal to the track surface, it is far from certain that a flat boarded straight track would be "at least as fast as a normal velodrome" The lean angle depends only on speed and turn radius, not on banking. Dan We're not comparing a banked oval with an unbanked one, we're comparing any oval with a straight line. The banking, aside from issues of side grip and pedal clearance, has the effect of reducing the camber thrust in the tytrack interface, ideally to zero for a well designed track ridden at precisely its design speed, but I suspect that this effect is trivial (in the comparison between banked and unbanked turns) compared with the effect of the CG and centre of pressure taking a short cut round the turns (regardless of banking) in the comparison between riding in circles and riding in a straight line Kinky Cowboy* *Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your milage may vary |
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#12
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Velodrome banking helps how?
On 23 Jan 2006 11:39:48 -0800, "Rik O'Shea"
wrote: Its true that the CG of the rider travels a bit less than the wheels of the bike BUT the wheels of the bike always travel more than the distance of the track because it is impossible for the rider to travel exactly along the "line" that prescribes the exact measurement of the track It is also impossible to ride a single track vehicle in a precisely straight line, even more so one with huge out of balance loads providing the motive force. I expect that pro track riders travel as close to the measured distance on the track as they could in a straight line, and further that if there is any deviation between the distances ridden on the track vs. on the putative straight course it is an order of magnitude smaller than the amount by which riding in circles reduces the distance traveled by the heavy draggy rider vs. the tyre path. Kinky Cowboy* *Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your milage may vary |
#14
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Velodrome banking helps how?
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#15
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Velodrome banking helps how?
wrote in message ... Joseph Santaniello writes: So the question is, how much energy or power does a banked turn save over turns on flat ground with tire scrub? Let's ignore the pedal clearance issue. None at all because there are no additional losses from the curve. That is why it is banked to match the speeds attainable on a bicycle. The banking is there to make the track essentially a straight course with bicycle and tires normal to the surface, that conveniently ends where it starts and is observable from a fixed position. The only argument arises from purists who note that the rider does not travel the prescribed distance because they travel at a smaller radius than the surface of the track where the tires roll over the distance. The purists also note the increase in rolling resistance of tires due to centripetal acceleration (higher contact force) and the height change of center of mass going in and out of the turn (which balances out). There is a tendency to speed up going into the turn and slow down coming out. Phil H |
#16
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Velodrome banking helps how?
"Robert Chung" wrote in message ... wrote: The only argument arises from purists who note that the rider does not travel the prescribed distance because they travel at a smaller radius than the surface of the track where the tires roll over the distance. That's a couple hundred watts difference between the straights and the turns. Troll Phil H |
#17
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Velodrome banking helps how?
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#18
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Velodrome banking helps how?
"Robert Chung" writes:
wrote: The only argument arises from purists who note that the rider does not travel the prescribed distance because they travel at a smaller radius than the surface of the track where the tires roll over the distance. That's a couple hundred watts difference between the straights and the turns. A couple *hundred* watts? Huh. Can you show us your math? |
#19
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Velodrome banking helps how?
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#20
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Velodrome banking helps how?
Johnny Sunset wrote: wrote: ... I contend that speed skaters are faster than cyclist.... Faster than 81.00 mph/130.36 kph on skates? See http://www.ihpva.org/hpva/hpvarec7.html#nom01. -- Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley (For a bit) ok, cyclists was too broad a term... Joseph |
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