Wheel/gear upgrade

So I broke another spoke today on my rear wheel. It's the second break in
about 3 months, and when I took it into the LBS last time they patched it up
but said the rims probably need replacing. So I think I'm in the market for
a new wheel.

The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of - something like a
1980s tourer. The rims are quite reasonable aluminium but the spokes are
galvanised and don't seem to be very happy - last spoke break was when I had
40kg of shopping on the back. So I'm wondering what quality the cheap 25
pound mass produced wheels would be which seem to have galvanised spokes,
and whether stainless steel spokes would be better? Unfortunately noone
seems to sell pre-built wheels with stainless steel spokes (if I'm going to
pay for someone to build it I might as well do it myself, or at least
specify the components). I've done a front wheelbuild before, but never a
rear.

I've also been contemplating upgrading the gears at some point; it's a 12
speed bike but I don't see much difference between the two front cogs and
I'd like to increase the range on both ends - in particular the fastest
speed gear could do with increasing a bit as I tend to run out of pedal
force when coming down hills very easily. It would also be nice to add a
granny gear for going uphill - the bike is fine in Cambridgeshire but will
probably keel over on real hills. The down-tube shifters don't have any
indexing at all so I should be OK on that count (and seem to have lots of
slack at the bottom end).

So a rim is a rim and spokes are spokes, but what options do I have for the
gearing? I've got a screw-on freewheel block at the moment; presumably I'd
have to change the hub too if I wanted to increase the gearing? Is it
possible to get gearsets with more range between gears, not just more cogs?
I'd rather not have to get a new cassette hub, non-quick release skewer and
freewheel block if I can help it. If I have to do that, which hubs are
relatively cheap but reliable - I see zillions listed but can't really see
the difference? And if I'm buying a rim (700c) can anyone recommend a
not-too-expensive but reasonable quality rim - my current rims are 15mm, but
I see St John's St lists lots of rims to 'fit tyres 19-28mm' which I'm
guessing wouldn't fit?

Am I just jumping into lots of expensive pitfalls here? I don't want to
spend too much, partly because the bike isn't worth a lot and partly because
if it looks good it's likely to get nicked. But having something that works
properly is the primary requirement.

Thanks,
Theo

--
Theo Markettos
Clare Hall, Cambridge
CB3 9AL, UK http://www.markettos.org.uk/

Theo Markettos wrote:

The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of - something like a
1980s tourer. The rims are quite reasonable aluminium but the spokes are
galvanised and don't seem to be very happy - last spoke break was when I had
40kg of shopping on the back.

Moral of the story is don't put 40 Kg of shopping on the back. Get a
trailer, though note that a BoB Yak, designed for specifically for
loading, is only rated to 35 Kg! (though you can still put stuff on the
bike as well)

So I'm wondering what quality the cheap 25
pound mass produced wheels would be which seem to have galvanised spokes,
and whether stainless steel spokes would be better? Unfortunately noone
seems to sell pre-built wheels with stainless steel spokes (if I'm going to
pay for someone to build it I might as well do it myself, or at least
specify the components). I've done a front wheelbuild before, but never a
rear.

With 40 Kg of extra load on the back I wouldn't be at all surprised if
any mass produced budget wheel started blowing spokes. They're just not
built for that sort of thing. If you really want to load everything on
the back then look at a custom tandem wheel (more spokes for more
strength), but really you'd be better off IMHO not putting 40 Kg on the
back of the bike. If a trailer doesn't suit (though it really would be
the best way) then split the load about 60/40 front rear. The bike will
handle better too, though again I'd look at better wheels than cheap
mass produced ones.

Am I just jumping into lots of expensive pitfalls here? I don't want to
spend too much, partly because the bike isn't worth a lot and partly because
if it looks good it's likely to get nicked. But having something that works
properly is the primary requirement.

Just get a trailer to do your shopping as your first stop, IMHO. That
should stop the wheels breaking, and you can always let gravity get you
down hills in the meantime.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Theo Markettos wrote:
So I broke another spoke today on my rear wheel. It's the second
break in about 3 months, and when I took it into the LBS last time
they patched it up but said the rims probably need replacing. So I
think I'm in the market for a new wheel.

The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of - something like
a 1980s tourer. The rims are quite reasonable aluminium but the
spokes are galvanised and don't seem to be very happy - last spoke
break was when I had 40kg of shopping on the back. So I'm wondering
what quality the cheap 25 pound mass produced wheels would be which
seem to have galvanised spokes, and whether stainless steel spokes
would be better? Unfortunately noone seems to sell pre-built wheels
with stainless steel spokes (if I'm going to pay for someone to build
it I might as well do it myself, or at least specify the components).
I've done a front wheelbuild before, but never a rear.

Stainless steel spokes are stronger as well as being corrosion resistant,
certainly worth getting. Some mail order/online suppliers don't charge
for buidling, by the way.

I've also been contemplating upgrading the gears at some point; it's
a 12 speed bike but I don't see much difference between the two front
cogs and I'd like to increase the range on both ends - in particular
the fastest speed gear could do with increasing a bit as I tend to
run out of pedal force when coming down hills very easily. It would
also be nice to add a granny gear for going uphill - the bike is fine
in Cambridgeshire but will probably keel over on real hills. The
down-tube shifters don't have any indexing at all so I should be OK
on that count (and seem to have lots of slack at the bottom end).

So a rim is a rim and spokes are spokes, but what options do I have
for the gearing? I've got a screw-on freewheel block at the moment;
presumably I'd have to change the hub too if I wanted to increase the
gearing? Is it possible to get gearsets with more range between
gears, not just more cogs? I'd rather not have to get a new cassette
hub, non-quick release skewer and freewheel block if I can help it.

Cassette hubs aren't expensive and your frame could probably be "spread"
to accommodate a wider hub so maybe you should reconsider. Cassette hubs
are stronger, more versatile and it's much easier to get the sprockets off
them.

If I have to do that, which hubs are relatively cheap but reliable -
I see zillions listed but can't really see the difference?

Any of suitable dimensions from Shimano or Campagnolo. Differences
between models can be found on the manufacturers' websites if you download
the exploded diagrams.

And if
I'm buying a rim (700c) can anyone recommend a not-too-expensive but
reasonable quality rim - my current rims are 15mm, but I see St
John's St lists lots of rims to 'fit tyres 19-28mm' which I'm
guessing wouldn't fit?

No, that width should be all right. I'll pass on recommending any
inexpensive rims for the moment because I don't know of any that I'm happy
to call "reasonably decent" :-(
(I use Open Pros on my road bike; MA3 front and A719 rear on tourer:
MA3 is cheap but not great for rear wheels, IMO).

Am I just jumping into lots of expensive pitfalls here? I don't want
to spend too much, partly because the bike isn't worth a lot and
partly because if it looks good it's likely to get nicked. But
having something that works properly is the primary requirement.

You could get tempted onto the slippery slope of an expensive major
rebuild, but that first step of a decent pair of wheels would be a good
investment. They could be used for years to come, on future bikes as
well.

~PB

Peter Clinch wrote:
Just get a trailer to do your shopping as your first stop, IMHO. That
should stop the wheels breaking, and you can always let gravity get
you down hills in the meantime.

A trailer would better take the heavy groceries I carry as well but I
ain't getting one, not for the time being anyway. They're just not
practical for all of us, Pete.

My new rear wheel with A719 36h rim and Alpine III spokes drive side is
coping very well so far. It's really regular long-distance riding that
you have to worry much about spoke fatigue and I'm guessing, like me, Theo
isn't riding all that many miles to do the shopping.

Spokes should not snap on the wheel if is built well and strong, and
spokes are stress relieved.

A wide tyre will also add to the general reliability of the wheel.

~PB

Peter Clinch wrote:

Moral of the story is don't put 40 Kg of shopping on the back.

Perhaps cyclists who are 40 Kg heavier than average should chop a couple
of limbs off and carry them in a trailer, too.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" writes:

Peter Clinch wrote:

Moral of the story is don't put 40 Kg of shopping on the back.

Perhaps cyclists who are 40 Kg heavier than average should chop a couple
of limbs off and carry them in a trailer, too.

And I've regularly cycled with 60+ kg of friend on the rack
in Amsterdam :-)

Roos

in message , Theo Markettos
') wrote:

So I broke another spoke today on my rear wheel. It's the second
break in about 3 months, and when I took it into the LBS last time
they patched it up
but said the rims probably need replacing. So I think I'm in the
market for a new wheel.

The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of

French make, at least moderately reputable, nowadays mostly make motor
scooters.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Wannabe a Web designer?
URL:http://userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/97dec/19971206.html

in message , Pete Biggs
') wrote:

Theo Markettos wrote:
So I broke another spoke today on my rear wheel. It's the second
break in about 3 months, and when I took it into the LBS last time
they patched it up but said the rims probably need replacing. So I
think I'm in the market for a new wheel.

The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of - something like
a 1980s tourer. The rims are quite reasonable aluminium but the
spokes are galvanised and don't seem to be very happy - last spoke
break was when I had 40kg of shopping on the back. So I'm wondering
what quality the cheap 25 pound mass produced wheels would be which
seem to have galvanised spokes, and whether stainless steel spokes
would be better? Unfortunately noone seems to sell pre-built wheels
with stainless steel spokes (if I'm going to pay for someone to build
it I might as well do it myself, or at least specify the components).
I've done a front wheelbuild before, but never a rear.

Stainless steel spokes are stronger as well as being corrosion
resistant,
certainly worth getting. Some mail order/online suppliers don't
charge for buidling, by the way.

I've also been contemplating upgrading the gears at some point; it's
a 12 speed bike but I don't see much difference between the two front
cogs and I'd like to increase the range on both ends - in particular
the fastest speed gear could do with increasing a bit as I tend to
run out of pedal force when coming down hills very easily. It would
also be nice to add a granny gear for going uphill - the bike is fine
in Cambridgeshire but will probably keel over on real hills. The
down-tube shifters don't have any indexing at all so I should be OK
on that count (and seem to have lots of slack at the bottom end).

So a rim is a rim and spokes are spokes, but what options do I have
for the gearing? I've got a screw-on freewheel block at the moment;
presumably I'd have to change the hub too if I wanted to increase the
gearing? Is it possible to get gearsets with more range between
gears, not just more cogs? I'd rather not have to get a new cassette
hub, non-quick release skewer and freewheel block if I can help it.

Cassette hubs aren't expensive and your frame could probably be
"spread"
to accommodate a wider hub so maybe you should reconsider. Cassette
hubs are stronger, more versatile and it's much easier to get the
sprockets off them.

On this subject:

My road frame is a Raleigh Record Sprint, 501 tubing so not great and
one day I'll get a better one but in the meantime it does. I'm
gradually replacing the drive train. There are at present quite a lot
of good Campag eight-speed bits going on eBay for non-scarey amounts.

Am I right in thinking that Campag eight and ten speed hubs have the
same over-the-locknut dimension (Sheldon says 130mm)? If so I'll
cold-set to 130 and go for second-hand eight speed bits just now.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

Simon Brooke typed



The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of

French make, at least moderately reputable, nowadays mostly make motor
scooters.

Motobecane as was IIRC

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In message , Pete Biggs
writes
Theo Markettos wrote:

The bike an MBK Mistral, a brand I've never heard of - something like
a 1980s tourer. The rims are quite reasonable aluminium but the
spokes are galvanised and don't seem to be very happy -

Stainless steel spokes are stronger as well as being corrosion resistant,
certainly worth getting. Some mail order/online suppliers don't charge
for buidling, by the way.


But are they? or rather, would an equivalent galvanised spoke be as
strong?

ISTR reading some years back in the CTC rag an article (by CJ I
presume) about this and him reckoning that galvanised spokes were
stronger, but of course suffer corrosion, look less shiney etc. ISTR
that he reckoned that galvanised spokes were more resilient or somesuch

Whether or not you could get an equivalent quality galvanised spoke
nowadays is another point of course.
--
Chris French, Leeds