Proper impeller play on a Union (Con-tec)dynamo?

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 10:14:07 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2020 2:52 PM, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 2:24:27 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:12:02 PM UTC-8, Tosspot wrote:
On 14/11/2020 19:40, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/14/2020 12:19 PM, landotter wrote:
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:06:42 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 11/14/2020 11:49 AM, landotter wrote:
I put a rear triangle dynamo on my retro roadster with a 50 lux
Cordo LED lamp and it's the tits. Works great, weighs eh nuttin, and
you can switch it 100% off. Cost about 12 bucks for the dynamo and
25 for the lamp. Oh boy. Big spender, but it kept the front wheel
looking bulgy hubbed and new fanglish. 50 lux is fifty lux. works
fine, but I wanna dial it in to get that edge riding across town to
pick up fava beans, ya know?

These days if you want a new silver olde timey looking jobber it's
an AXA 8201 or the Con-tec DL-150. Both are a tenner and a bit. The
Con-tec appears to be a rebranded Union-Marwi and the "U" on the
spring cover is kind of a giveaway AND it comes with a little
impeller cover, so it won out.

I dripped a single drop of oil down the impeller shaft and then put
a glob of red Sta-Plex grease on top of the bushing before putting
on the roller and lock nut. Friction really ain't anything now.
Spins like the dickens. Doesn't get hot. It's happy on a real dynamo
track on a Schwalbe tire without too much pressure.

But it still rattles a bit. I reckon it's the simple bearing
whacking against the bushing. Would adjusting play even matter? I'v
got it at a generous couple millimeters.

My solution has been to listen to quiz shows at a medium volume and
enjoying that the rattle has probably extended the life of my Crane
bell as pedestrians seem very irritated by it.
A couple millimeters end play sounds really excessive. My similar
dynamos are adjusted for near zero end play.


--
- Frank Krygowski


I'll dial it in tightish and give it a whirl tonight. Seeing as there
are no ball bearings and the impeller follows tire imperfections, I
figured it might be one of those situations where a little slop was good.

My weird theory is that it's not terribly important on a consumable
dynamo but what's happening is that the LED draw is so little that the
magnety spinny action isn't as strong to keep it centered in the bushing.

It's a silly chasing rainbows thing as my bicycle is otherwise a
silent appliance. Hahaha!


Most have a simple bronze journal, not a ball bearing. They do run much
better with firm pressure than with occasional slip.
I may be wrong, but istr the nordlicht dynamos were ball bearing. I
never found a bottle dynamo that didn't slip under some ****ty weather
condition although the Nordlicht was quite good for its genre.

I used a spoke dynamo for a while, they don't slip :-)
I agree with you. I never saw a bottle dynamo that also didn't wear the tires out rapidly. Installing a hub dynamo was like a new world. I can't remember clearly but I think that I had a multispeed hub with a dynamo built into it as well.

I've never seen a properly installed bottle wear out a tire and I grew up with them so saw a ****ton in Sweden. Of course the incandescent lamps were pretty terrible and the halogens a mild improvement. LED changes everything.

Wheel dynamos will always drag, look fugly as hell, cost a heck of a lot more, and never really are weather resistant. Yeah, they're standard on even 6-700 bikes now in Sweden along with the ubiquitous Shimano Nexus 3 which is also a disaster when it comes to weather. I run a Nexus too, but redid it with all fresh stainless balls and thick Sta-Plex grease with a little oil on the pawl pivots. A far better solution than Shimano hub grease, which is the same drippy white lithium used in cotton pickers. You can buy it by the gallon at the Tractor supply for cheap.

Hub dynamos are fine for low mileage bikes at the 50 buck price point. If you're doing brevets, you'll want something German of course that's gonna be a few hundred bux with a couple Schmitty lights as well.

A bottle dynamo running a cheap and cheerful 35-70 lux LED light runs with very little drag and really has no drawbacks if one has the slightest mechanical ability. It's the perfect fit and forget part. You can always have a strap on battery light for those times you want to do more silent urban riding, but the bottle will always be there.

I don't like new fangled that just introduces new problems that are smaller and more of a pain in the ass. It's like cartridge headsets for most non-mtb riding. They're usually fine, but if there's an issue, it's always dumb. Loose balls and marine grease are last century and can be fixed with a rock.


+1 on that dynamo & tire wear. I've only seen that in rare
cases of gross misalignment.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike. It worked great before, but now it's sounding like a good 'ol Union should. It needs only walking speed to get to full blast. It would benefit from a roller cover the diameter of a quarter or a krona. Haha.

Here it is mounted.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/m31fcoQHtUnZSM2M8

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 4:03:55 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/14/2020 3:52 PM, landotter wrote:

A bottle dynamo running a cheap and cheerful 35-70 lux LED light runs with very little drag and really has no drawbacks if one has the slightest mechanical ability. It's the perfect fit and forget part. You can always have a strap on battery light for those times you want to do more silent urban riding, but the bottle will always be there.
As I've mentioned, I've chucked the drive rollers of such dynos into a
lathe and cut a groove to hold a thick O-ring. I then set up the dynos
so the O-ring rolls on the rim's braking surface instead of the tire.
It's remarkably quiet, and may be a bit less prone to slip. I'll admit,
though, I rarely ride in the rain at night.

Regarding mechanical ability: I've learned that it's surprisingly
lacking in many otherwise intelligent people. But a bottle dyno also
requires a smidgen of electrical ability. I always double-wire them
instead of using the bike frame as a conductor. I did that when I
installed one for a dear friend.

Much later, I was asked to repair it. Her boyfriend fussed with it and
it no longer worked. Turned out he'd crossed the wires without realizing
it, shorting the output. And he is an electrical engineer!
I don't like new fangled that just introduces new problems that are smaller and more of a pain in the ass. It's like cartridge headsets for most non-mtb riding. They're usually fine, but if there's an issue, it's always dumb. Loose balls and marine grease are last century and can be fixed with a rock.
The Repair Manifesto:
https://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
- Frank Krygowski

I don't have a lathe but using Orings is a nice idea which offers spares at every hardware store. This incarnation of the Union has two improvements over the classic: a nice roller cover AND two solid spring connectors for double wiring. Single wiring with thick headset grease wouldn't be my idea of good engineering. Also, if you have a Union without a roller cover, a Lego tire works great. My Schwalbe Little Big Ben's have a perfect dynamo track so no worries. The buzz is fine as I rarely ride more than an hour with a dynamo. It's like magic fingers to keep you awake.

Again, the modern Union is sold as the Contec DL-150 and still outta Germany. 12€ if you can find one.

On 11/15/2020 11:50 AM, landotter wrote:

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike.

I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.

On my touring bike, I fabricated an aluminum mount for the dyno on the
front fork. It spans between the cantilever brake stud and the mid-fork
boss intended for the front pannier racks. To me, it looks much classier
and it doesn't harm the paint. And it saves at least ten grams! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/15/2020 11:50 AM, landotter wrote:

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike.
I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.

On my touring bike, I fabricated an aluminum mount for the dyno on the
front fork. It spans between the cantilever brake stud and the mid-fork
boss intended for the front pannier racks. To me, it looks much classier
and it doesn't harm the paint. And it saves at least ten grams! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

For a front fork mount I 100% agree. Clamps look terrible. A brazed tab is the best. My setup is mostly hidden by bags so the clamp doesn't bother me at all.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PaRcutYQU8C1XxDHA

On 11/15/2020 1:38 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/15/2020 11:50 AM, landotter wrote:

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike.
I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.

On my touring bike, I fabricated an aluminum mount for the dyno on the
front fork. It spans between the cantilever brake stud and the mid-fork
boss intended for the front pannier racks. To me, it looks much classier
and it doesn't harm the paint. And it saves at least ten grams! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

For a front fork mount I 100% agree. Clamps look terrible. A brazed tab is the best. My setup is mostly hidden by bags so the clamp doesn't bother me at all.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PaRcutYQU8C1XxDHA


Much agree on brazed dynamo mounts:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/aqpearl7.jpg

by the way, welcome back Mr Landotter!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Frank Krygowski wrote:
I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.


For ~30 years I used a dynamo mount built from a worm-drive hose clamp
with a suitable tab brazed to it. The dynamo (an old Soubitez bottom-
bracket model) was amply rigid and never drifted out of alignment. It
was fastened to a seat stay and supported the roller dynamo in the spot
usually occupied by a bottle type. I wasn't worried about the paint, but
a wrap of paper or plastic tape on the stay would have prevented any
scratching.

It was smooth, quiet and perfectly satifactory until the plastic bail
supporting the dynamo axle broke. After the bail failed I looked in
vain for something similar and found nothing. Evenutally I laced up a
Shimano DH3N72 in the front wheel and have found that effective, if
heavy and expensive.

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 2:03:56 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/15/2020 1:38 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/15/2020 11:50 AM, landotter wrote:

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike.
I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.

On my touring bike, I fabricated an aluminum mount for the dyno on the
front fork. It spans between the cantilever brake stud and the mid-fork
boss intended for the front pannier racks. To me, it looks much classier
and it doesn't harm the paint. And it saves at least ten grams! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

For a front fork mount I 100% agree. Clamps look terrible. A brazed tab is the best. My setup is mostly hidden by bags so the clamp doesn't bother me at all.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PaRcutYQU8C1XxDHA

Much agree on brazed dynamo mounts:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/aqpearl7.jpg

That tire looks dire. Might only have another decade left on the dynamo track. I do like the old Union steel spring cover and red cap.

Did you add the tab to the Bianchi? Some of those frames already had them.

by the way, welcome back Mr Landotter!
--

Thanks!

I'm still grumpy. But nothing like you old farts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uQs1sYMtjG8vJtWa8

On 11/15/2020 2:30 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 2:03:56 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/15/2020 1:38 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/15/2020 11:50 AM, landotter wrote:

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike.
I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.

On my touring bike, I fabricated an aluminum mount for the dyno on the
front fork. It spans between the cantilever brake stud and the mid-fork
boss intended for the front pannier racks. To me, it looks much classier
and it doesn't harm the paint. And it saves at least ten grams! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

For a front fork mount I 100% agree. Clamps look terrible. A brazed tab is the best. My setup is mostly hidden by bags so the clamp doesn't bother me at all.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PaRcutYQU8C1XxDHA

Much agree on brazed dynamo mounts:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/aqpearl7.jpg

That tire looks dire. Might only have another decade left on the dynamo track. I do like the old Union steel spring cover and red cap.

Did you add the tab to the Bianchi? Some of those frames already had them.

by the way, welcome back Mr Landotter!
--

Thanks!

I'm still grumpy. But nothing like you old farts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uQs1sYMtjG8vJtWa8


Factory dynamo mount but several resprays on that one over
the years.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 3:24:09 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/15/2020 2:30 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 2:03:56 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/15/2020 1:38 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 11:54:03 AM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/15/2020 11:50 AM, landotter wrote:

I got the play out and the bottle a little more parallel. It was a sloppy impeller adjustment from the factory and the bracket which was designed for a 1922 roadster kicked out the bottom of the bottle a little as the seatstays are a little different on a modern bike.
I do dislike the mounting hardware for bottle dynos. The stuff always
looks inelegant. I'd prefer a braze-on tab of some sort.

On my touring bike, I fabricated an aluminum mount for the dyno on the
front fork. It spans between the cantilever brake stud and the mid-fork
boss intended for the front pannier racks. To me, it looks much classier
and it doesn't harm the paint. And it saves at least ten grams! ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

For a front fork mount I 100% agree. Clamps look terrible. A brazed tab is the best. My setup is mostly hidden by bags so the clamp doesn't bother me at all.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PaRcutYQU8C1XxDHA

Much agree on brazed dynamo mounts:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/aqpearl7.jpg

That tire looks dire. Might only have another decade left on the dynamo track. I do like the old Union steel spring cover and red cap.

Did you add the tab to the Bianchi? Some of those frames already had them.

by the way, welcome back Mr Landotter!
--

Thanks!

I'm still grumpy. But nothing like you old farts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uQs1sYMtjG8vJtWa8

Factory dynamo mount but several resprays on that one over
the years.
--


I thought you had it powder coated Pepto a while back.
My dynamo is running as a bottle should now. Did ten miles through a black forest tonight and it was barely audible and the light was a delightful 50 lux beam. Plenty to see by.

On 11/15/2020 3:30 PM, landotter wrote:
On Sunday, November 15, 2020 at 2:03:56 PM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:

by the way, welcome back Mr Landotter!
--

Thanks!

I'm still grumpy. But nothing like you old farts.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uQs1sYMtjG8vJtWa8

The "ENTERING GOLF COURSE QUIET" sign in your photo reminds me of a very
early cycling incident.

We were young marrieds in the 1970s, just getting into bicycling and
wondering how on earth someone could ride 50 miles, let alone 100. Then
someone in the U.S. government started a program called the Presidential
Sports Award, intending to get people active. You could choose from
dozens of activities (swimming, table tennis, backpacking...) and get a
patch and pin if you did it consistently enough and kept records to
document your participation for several months.

IIRC the Bicycling badge required something like 600 miles in four
months, an average of just five miles per day. But you couldn't count
any more than 12 miles on any one day. (You could ride them; they just
didn't count toward the award.) The idea was consistency, not weekend
warrior behavior.

We sent away, got our logbooks and began riding very consistently,
ticking off the days and miles. Finally, I watched my mechanical
cyclometer as we rode a pretty road alongside a local golf course. We
were quite excited as I said "Two tenths to go... one tenth to go.. WE
DID IT!" And we both shouted "HOORAY!"

.... just as a nearby golfer had finished his backswing. His ball went
off in some bad direction and he gave us a look that could kill.


--
- Frank Krygowski