Pulled Over By Police

On Jan 11, 4:20*am, Mike wrote:
I recently started training for my first Century. *I started riding my
bicycle to work three days a week. *It's about 15 miles one way. *It's
a good ride, but the only legal route is a four lane that has a 55
mile per hour speed limit.

SNIP

Please ride safe.

Mike Jarrells

Thank you all for your support!

For those who are serious about bicycle safety I suggest you visit
this site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling

I have found the ideas at this site very useful and I would like to
thank the author for sharing.

Please ride safe for yourself and others.

Mike Jarrells

wrote:
Mike Jarrells wrote:

Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists were
honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when there was no
traffic. I just don't understand some people.

That's a good sign you are not riding well. I have had that
experience a few times on roads where I never have contention, even
though there is no shoulder or even paving outside the edge stripe.
The honking and slicing occur when a "take the lane" rider joins me on
one of these routes. They ride conspicuously as much as three feet
farther into the lane than necessary, and it is obvious to motorists
that a self righteous statement is being made.

You may be misattributing motorist hostility.

I ride no differently when I ride alone or with others, yet I observe less
courtesy from motorists when I'm riding with other cyclists. This may be because
the group presents a more difficult obstacle for a motorist to comfortably pass,
even if that group is riding single file within two feet of the edge of the paved
surface.

I find the phrase, "take the lane", unnecessarily confrontational and prefer the
phrase "proper lane position". This might mean riding within two feet of the
paved edge, say, when climbing at 5 mph, (e.g. Page Mill Rd. near Moody Rd.), or
it might mean using the entire lane while descending the same section of road.

When cruising along a shoulderless road with narrow lanes at 20-25 mph I usually
find myself riding on the right-hand tire track of dual-track motor traffic.

http://tinyurl.com/a7s74g

[...]

Oh yes, the police are the problem. I've heard it often from born
again bicyclists. Take the lane!

In some communities police may be a problem. It wasn't too long ago that the
local deputy sheriffs were ticketing cyclists for not performing calisthenics
(putting a foot down) at stop signs or from straying from a marked bike lane
without signaling.

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

Mike Jarrells wrote:

I recently started training for my first Century. Â*I started riding my
bicycle to work three days a week. Â*It's about 15 miles one way. Â*It's
a good ride, but the only legal route is a four lane that has a 55
mile per hour speed limit.

SNIP

Please ride safe.

Thank you all for your support!

For those who are serious about bicycle safety I suggest you visit
this site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling

"Defective Cycling" has long been on the best seller list for geeks.
It was written in the days when the author was mucking with bicycle
amenities in Palo Alto, accomplishing little while raising much dust.
Low key Ellen Fletcher, a bicyclist, became a city council member
accomplished much more without making much hay on it.

I have found the ideas at this site very useful and I would like to
thank the author for sharing.

very, very useful, no doubt. I think the book may also be the origin
of "take the lane" bicycling, and other rude self righteousness in
bicycling.

Please ride safe for yourself and others.

What happened to adverbs, or are you not a native user of English?

Jobst Brandt

Bill Bushnell wrote:

Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists
were honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when
there was no traffic. I just don't understand some people.

That's a good sign you are not riding well. I have had that
experience a few times on roads where I never have contention, even
though there is no shoulder or even paving outside the edge stripe.
The honking and slicing occur when a "take the lane" rider joins me
on one of these routes. They ride conspicuously as much as three
feet farther into the lane than necessary, and it is obvious to
motorists that a self righteous statement is being made.

You may be misattributing motorist hostility.

I ride no differently when I ride alone or with others, yet I
observe less courtesy from motorists when I'm riding with other
cyclists. This may be because the group presents a more difficult
obstacle for a motorist to comfortably pass, even if that group is
riding single file within two feet of the edge of the paved surface.

Don't jump to conclusions like that. You and I have ridden together
on these roads and not had hostile responses from motorists. I am
observant enough to sense a "take the lane" type who rides about a
yard farther into the right lane than reasonable. These are the folks
I try to avoid for bicycle rides. I often ride with several other
reasonable bicyclists and get no animosity from motorists.

I find the phrase, "take the lane", unnecessarily confrontational
and prefer the phrase "proper lane position". This might mean
riding within two feet of the paved edge, say, when climbing at 5
mph, (e.g. Page Mill Rd. near Moody Rd.), or it might mean using the
entire lane while descending the same section of road.

That appellation already carries bad baggage. It doesn't matter what
you call riding five feet out in the traffic lane, it gives a bad
feeling to motorists. Besides, "take the lane" is common jargon among
the inept.

When cruising along a shoulderless road with narrow lanes at 20-25
mph I usually find myself riding on the right-hand tire track of
dual-track motor traffic.

http://tinyurl.com/a7s74g

[...]

Oh yes, the police are the problem. I've heard it often from born
again bicyclists. Take the lane!

In some communities police may be a problem. It wasn't too long ago
that the local deputy sheriffs were ticketing cyclists for not
performing calisthenics (putting a foot down) at stop signs or from
straying from a marked bike lane without signaling.

Yes, that is proven by the recent action by a BART policeman. They
all look alike!

Jobst Brandt

Bill Bushnell wrote:

Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists
were honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when
there was no traffic. I just don't understand some people.

That's a good sign you are not riding well. I have had that
experience a few times on roads where I never have contention, even
though there is no shoulder or even paving outside the edge stripe.
The honking and slicing occur when a "take the lane" rider joins me
on one of these routes. They ride conspicuously as much as three
feet farther into the lane than necessary, and it is obvious to
motorists that a self righteous statement is being made.

You may be misattributing motorist hostility.

I ride no differently when I ride alone or with others, yet I
observe less courtesy from motorists when I'm riding with other
cyclists. This may be because the group presents a more difficult
obstacle for a motorist to comfortably pass, even if that group is
riding single file within two feet of the edge of the paved surface.

Don't jump to conclusions like that. You and I have ridden together
on these roads and not had hostile responses from motorists. I am
observant enough to sense a "take the lane" type who rides about a
yard farther into the right lane than reasonable. These are the folks
I try to avoid for bicycle rides. I often ride with several other
reasonable bicyclists and get no animosity from motorists.

I find the phrase, "take the lane", unnecessarily confrontational
and prefer the phrase "proper lane position". This might mean
riding within two feet of the paved edge, say, when climbing at 5
mph, (e.g. Page Mill Rd. near Moody Rd.), or it might mean using the
entire lane while descending the same section of road.

That appellation already carries bad baggage. It doesn't matter what
you call riding five feet out in the traffic lane, it gives a bad
feeling to motorists. Besides, "take the lane" is common jargon among
the inept.

When cruising along a shoulderless road with narrow lanes at 20-25
mph I usually find myself riding on the right-hand tire track of
dual-track motor traffic.

http://tinyurl.com/a7s74g

[...]

Oh yes, the police are the problem. I've heard it often from born
again bicyclists. Take the lane!

In some communities police may be a problem. It wasn't too long ago
that the local deputy sheriffs were ticketing cyclists for not
performing calisthenics (putting a foot down) at stop signs or from
straying from a marked bike lane without signaling.

Yes, that is proven by the recent action by a BART policeman. They
all look alike!

Jobst Brandt

wrote:
Mike Jarrells wrote:
For those who are serious about bicycle safety I suggest you visit
this site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling

"Defective Cycling" has long been on the best seller list for geeks.
It was written in the days when the author was mucking with bicycle
amenities in Palo Alto, accomplishing little while raising much dust.
Low key Ellen Fletcher, a bicyclist, became a city council member
accomplished much more without making much hay on it.

I have found the ideas at this site very useful and I would like to
thank the author for sharing.

very, very useful, no doubt. I think the book may also be the origin
of "take the lane" bicycling, and other rude self righteousness in
bicycling.

At the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_lane

the section on "Lane control" discusses when a cyclist should ride in the center
of the lane. The following paragraph may point to source of the controversy.

"John Franklin [author of Cyclecraft] advocates operating bicycles in accordance
with the basic rules of the road for vehicle operation. Using terms such as
"primary riding position" meaning in the center of the traffic lane and "secondary
riding position" meaning about 1 meter (3.2 feet) to the side of moving traffic,
but not closer than .5 meters (1.6 feet) from the edge of the road. Franklin
advocates the primary riding position as the normal position and the secondary
riding position only when it is safe, reasonable and necessary to allow faster
traffic to pass."

This is a more aggressive intepretation of "take the lane" and is one that I
believe is inconsistent with CA state vehicle code Sec. 21202 that requires
riding as far right as practicable as the default or "primary riding position".

Jobst, I think your main disagreement may be with how one interprets "take the
lane" and also appears to be clouded by your apparent personal dislike of
Forrester the man. Are you advocating that we discard Vehicular Cycling concepts
because some of its practitioners exercise them poorly or because you personally
dislike Forrester?

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

Bill Bushnell wrote:

"John Franklin [author of Cyclecraft] advocates operating bicycles in accordance
with the basic rules of the road for vehicle operation. Using terms such as
"primary riding position" meaning in the center of the traffic lane and "secondary
riding position" meaning about 1 meter (3.2 feet) to the side of moving traffic,
but not closer than .5 meters (1.6 feet) from the edge of the road. Franklin
advocates the primary riding position as the normal position and the secondary
riding position only when it is safe, reasonable and necessary to allow faster
traffic to pass."

I don't find these directions helpful. Usually it's easy to discern the
edge of the road that's swept by car tires -- it's clean. I simply ride
slightly to the left of this "debris line". That keeps you out of the
junk and disrupts passing traffic minimally. If there's a wide shoulder,
and it's clean with good pavement (rare around here in New England) I'll
use that.

There's no need to ride more than inches out from the debris line. There
are times when I'll go a bit further out, that's when I'm getting
"sliced" -- cars passing too closely (like a foot off my elbow). This
usually happens when the lane width is such that the driver doesn't have
to cross the median to pass -- only just barely, and will attempt to
squeeze by.

In article ,
Frank Krygowski writes:
On Jan 11, 6:13*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:

sigh

So many people have heard about, but not understood the
John Forester Effective Cycling approach. *Much of that
approach actually does work, but not when taken as rote
mummery.

"Take the lane" has become too much of a battlecry, instead
of the occasional tactic to be resorted-to only when necessary.
Egregious lane-taking is just plain road-hogging. *Sociably
co-existing with others is an Art. *It is unfortunate that so
many of us are artless. *It's even worse when we fail to have
basic consideration for other people.
For what it's worth, I have a friend who's ridden with Forester. He
says Forester shared lanes readily, and took the lane only when
necessary.

Isn't taking the lane only when necessary how it should be?


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

In article ,
(Dennis P. Harris) writes:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:09:42 -0800 in rec.bicycles.misc,
(Tom Keats) wrote:

Especially since I've been passed so many times
by fellow riders thatI didn't notice in the mirror because they
were in the blind spot when they were behind me.

No blind spot with my helmet mirror '^)

No blind spots with left /and/ right shoulder checking, either.

And looking both left & right is something we're gonna have
to do especially when the fair-weather riders once again
come out of the woodwork.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Jan 17, 9:15*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Frank Krygowski writes:

For what it's worth, I have a friend who's ridden with Forester. *He
says Forester shared lanes readily, and took the lane only when
necessary.

Isn't taking the lane only when necessary how it should be?

I think so. That's assuming the verb "taking" applies only if there
are cars behind you. (On empty roads, I ride at lane center - or
wherever the road is smoothest.)

As I said, I share lanes when it's reasonable to share. I've heard
that there are some cyclists who are more militant, and who (almost?)
always ride in the center of the lane, even if there are cars behind
and the lane is wide. They may have their reasons for doing that, but
it's not what I'd advise.

- Frank Krygowski