How to **** Off an Arrogant Pedalcyclist

(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:
(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

I guess this proves *you* can't admit when you're wrong.

Auto license plate yearly fees ARE a USER tax or fee.

I repeat.

1) you are all ****ed off there is no specificly labeled tax on
bicycling that is paid every year to use the roads.

No,I merely note that bicycles as vehicles do not pay any usage fee
as all road-using motor vehicles pay.
You guys are the ones that get ****ed when I mention your exception.

I pay all sorts of taxes. Call any one of them you'd like a usage fee,
just like you do with motor vehicles.

2) You declare a tax that is not labeled a motor vehicle road usage
tax and call it one.

Are you so blind you cannot see? (no,just dishonest)

There is no such labeled fee. And that's what you are hung up on.
Taxes are paid that more than cover bicycle use, and you are hung up
on the lack of a label.

People PAY a FEE to the State (IOW,a tax) -EVERY year- for LICENSE to
operate (USE) each specific vehicle on public roads.
Thus a USAGE fee or tax.
(This is separate from a driver's license,and it's fees.)

Try to redefine it any way you want, but that's not how it's defined
in the state of IL.

(625 ILCS 5/1.171) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1.171)
Sec. 1.171. Registration . Registration Sticker. Registration. The
registration certificate or certificates, registration plates and
registration stickers issued under the laws of this State pertaining
to the registration of vehicles.
Registration Sticker or Stickers. A device or devices to be
attached
to a rear registration plate that will renew the registration and
registration plate or plates for a pre.determined period not to exceed
one registration year except as provided in subsection (1) of Section
3.414 of this Code. Should the Secretary of State determine it is
advisable to require a registration sticker to be attached to a front
registration plate, he may require such action and provide the
necessary additional sticker. Such determination shall be publicly
announced at least 30 days in advance of a new annual registration
year. (Source: P.A. 80.1185.)

Where does 'user fee' come in? I didn't fine it in the registration
section either. All there is, is your interpetation.

Why do you think they need to "renew" your 'registration' EVERY YEAR?
It doesn't change.It's still the same plate number,year after year.
It's a yearly USER FEE.


No pay,your plates are invalid,and you are using illegally.
All 50 states require license plates for motor vehicles,BTW,that must
pay a fee(tax) YEARLY or in some special cases more than 1 year.

So complain to someone living in a state where it's defined as a road
usage fee.



Your semantics game has failed.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:

Why do you think they need to "renew" your 'registration' EVERY YEAR?
It doesn't change.It's still the same plate number,year after year.
It's a yearly USER FEE.

So why do I have to pay a yearly business license fee? To "use" the...air?

Yanik's yankin' us, BS

In article , Jim Yanik wrote:

Why do you think they need to "renew" your 'registration' EVERY YEAR?
It doesn't change.It's still the same plate number,year after year.
It's a yearly USER FEE.

Hell if I know. It's a tax. Why am I forced into social security?

And for what IL charges on registration, it doesn't make sense as a
user fee.

Why do I have to pay $10 and have my driver's license renewed every 4
years? Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too? You'll redefine
whatever you can as your 'user fee' I suppose. thusly freeing me to
redefine taxes as bicycle user fees, negating the whole thing.

Your semantics game has failed.

Awww don't like where your 'there's no tax labeled 'bicycle user fee'
arguement got you? Well there's no 'motorist user fee' either in the
state where I live. Least to the best of my knowledge.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

Why do you think they need to "renew" your 'registration' EVERY YEAR?
It doesn't change.It's still the same plate number,year after year.
It's a yearly USER FEE.

Hell if I know. It's a tax.

Thanks for admitting it.

Why am I forced into social security?

And for what IL charges on registration, it doesn't make sense as a
user fee.

Much of what gov't does does not make sense.


Why do I have to pay $10 and have my driver's license renewed every 4
years?

Check your eyesight and have a new picture taken.
Licenses do wear out,or need updating.(Not so for your lic.plate.)
Maybe get you to pay any outstanding parking tickets,too.

Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too?

In a way,yes.You are licensed -to use- a motor vehicle even if it is not
registered to you,like a rental,or another person's licensed auto.
Note that you need no driver's license if you operate off-road,on private
property.Same for lic.plates and registration.



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

In article , Jim Yanik wrote:
(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

Why do you think they need to "renew" your 'registration' EVERY YEAR?
It doesn't change.It's still the same plate number,year after year.
It's a yearly USER FEE.

Hell if I know. It's a tax.

Thanks for admitting it.

Yes I admit that taxation is often not logical.

Why am I forced into social security?

And for what IL charges on registration, it doesn't make sense as a
user fee.

Much of what gov't does does not make sense.

BINGO. hence it's not a user fee just because it has to be paid every
years.

Why do I have to pay $10 and have my driver's license renewed every 4
years?

Check your eyesight and have a new picture taken.
Licenses do wear out,or need updating.(Not so for your lic.plate.)
Maybe get you to pay any outstanding parking tickets,too.

I've seen beaten up and worn license plates.

Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too?

In a way,yes.You are licensed -to use- a motor vehicle even if it is not
registered to you,like a rental,or another person's licensed auto.
Note that you need no driver's license if you operate off-road,on private
property.Same for lic.plates and registration.

If government could figure out a way to tax it and control it on private
property, they would. You are simply pointing out a constitutional issue,
and confusing it with paying-for-roads.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:
(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

Why do you think they need to "renew" your 'registration' EVERY
YEAR? It doesn't change.It's still the same plate number,year after
year. It's a yearly USER FEE.

Hell if I know. It's a tax.

Thanks for admitting it.

Yes I admit that taxation is often not logical.

That is not what you wrote.Your words;"It's a tax." referrring to license
plate "renewals".

Your registration does not wear out,fade away,or change over time,so the
only reason for "renewal" is a *user fee*,no other reason.

It may be small,but applied to millions of autos per state,it adds up to a
nice piece of change.


Why am I forced into social security?

And for what IL charges on registration, it doesn't make sense as a
user fee.

Much of what gov't does does not make sense.

BINGO. hence it's not a user fee just because it has to be paid every
years.

Sure it is a user fee;the "renewal" sticker is your tax stamp,just like on
cigarette packs.


Why do I have to pay $10 and have my driver's license renewed every
4 years?

Check your eyesight and have a new picture taken.
Licenses do wear out,or need updating.(Not so for your lic.plate.)
Maybe get you to pay any outstanding parking tickets,too.

I've seen beaten up and worn license plates.

Sure,due to bumping into things,and here in the South,even fading.
But not common enough to necessitate "renewal" EVERY YEAR.

Florida sends me a new plate with a new number every 5 years,IIRC.
One nice thing is that if your FL.plate gets damaged in a collision or
stolen,you can get a new plate FREE.You need a police report reference
number,though.Oh,and the yearly FL plate "renewal" fees go to the county
TAX COLLECTOR.


Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too?

In a way,yes.You are licensed -to use- a motor vehicle even if it is
not registered to you,like a rental,or another person's licensed
auto. Note that you need no driver's license if you operate
off-road,on private property.Same for lic.plates and registration.

If government could figure out a way to tax it and control it on
private property, they would.

No,because it doesn't affect anyone in the public venue.

You are simply pointing out a
constitutional issue, and confusing it with paying-for-roads.


No,you simply refuse to acknowledge the obvious.
License plate fees ARE a "user fee";for the *license to USE* the vehicle on
public roads.(state permission)
I suspect that if this were not part of the argument about licensing
bicycles for road use,you'd have admitted it to be a user fee long ago.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

In article , Jim Yanik wrote:

Yes I admit that taxation is often not logical.

That is not what you wrote.Your words;"It's a tax." referrring to license
plate "renewals".

So are speeding tickets for the most part. So is social security.

Your registration does not wear out,fade away,or change over time,so the
only reason for "renewal" is a *user fee*,no other reason.

I have to pay all sorts of taxes annually. that doesn't make them user
fees.

It may be small,but applied to millions of autos per state,it adds up to a
nice piece of change.

certainly not enough to cover unlimited usage. Unlimited cellphone
packages cost many, many times more.

Much of what gov't does does not make sense.

BINGO. hence it's not a user fee just because it has to be paid every
years.

Sure it is a user fee;the "renewal" sticker is your tax stamp,just like on
cigarette packs.

And cig taxes aren't user taxes for anything.


Check your eyesight and have a new picture taken.
Licenses do wear out,or need updating.(Not so for your lic.plate.)
Maybe get you to pay any outstanding parking tickets,too.

I've seen beaten up and worn license plates.

Sure,due to bumping into things,and here in the South,even fading.
But not common enough to necessitate "renewal" EVERY YEAR.

Oh well,,, back in the day they were replaced every year... go figure.

Florida sends me a new plate with a new number every 5 years,IIRC.
One nice thing is that if your FL.plate gets damaged in a collision or
stolen,you can get a new plate FREE.You need a police report reference
number,though.Oh,and the yearly FL plate "renewal" fees go to the county
TAX COLLECTOR.

Not in IL. IL charges for new plates.


Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too?

In a way,yes.You are licensed -to use- a motor vehicle even if it is
not registered to you,like a rental,or another person's licensed
auto. Note that you need no driver's license if you operate
off-road,on private property.Same for lic.plates and registration.

If government could figure out a way to tax it and control it on
private property, they would.

No,because it doesn't affect anyone in the public venue.

That's why they can't. Remove that limitation on government and they damn
well will tax it.

You are simply pointing out a
constitutional issue, and confusing it with paying-for-roads.

No,you simply refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

The obvious is your being picky with tax labels for bicycling and not
being so with autos.

License plate fees ARE a "user fee";for the *license to USE* the vehicle on
public roads.(state permission)

Not that I have seen in the law.

I suspect that if this were not part of the argument about licensing
bicycles for road use,you'd have admitted it to be a user fee long ago.

It's not a user fee in IL. I've had a car ticketed that was parked on
private property for expired registration. It never left the property.
Bogus ticket, because the law doesn't require it, but the cops certainly
don't share your interpetation of it as just a 'user fee'.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

Yes I admit that taxation is often not logical.

That is not what you wrote.Your words;"It's a tax." referrring to
license plate "renewals".

So are speeding tickets for the most part. So is social security.

Your registration does not wear out,fade away,or change over time,so
the only reason for "renewal" is a *user fee*,no other reason.

I have to pay all sorts of taxes annually. that doesn't make them user
fees.

But the license "renewal fee" IS a user fee,it gives you license to USE the
roads;no pay,no use.


It may be small,but applied to millions of autos per state,it adds up
to a nice piece of change.

certainly not enough to cover unlimited usage.

So what? why does it HAVE to "cover" unlimited usage?

Unlimited cellphone
packages cost many, many times more.

Much of what gov't does does not make sense.

BINGO. hence it's not a user fee just because it has to be paid
every years.

Sure it is a user fee;the "renewal" sticker is your tax stamp,just
like on cigarette packs.

And cig taxes aren't user taxes for anything.

But I have not claimed that cig taxes are user fees.
I merely said that the sticker on the packs is a tax stamp.


Check your eyesight and have a new picture taken.
Licenses do wear out,or need updating.(Not so for your lic.plate.)
Maybe get you to pay any outstanding parking tickets,too.

I've seen beaten up and worn license plates.

Sure,due to bumping into things,and here in the South,even fading.
But not common enough to necessitate "renewal" EVERY YEAR.

Oh well,,, back in the day they were replaced every year... go
figure.

Florida sends me a new plate with a new number every 5 years,IIRC.
One nice thing is that if your FL.plate gets damaged in a collision
or stolen,you can get a new plate FREE.You need a police report
reference number,though.Oh,and the yearly FL plate "renewal" fees go
to the county TAX COLLECTOR.

Not in IL. IL charges for new plates.


Are you going to say that's a 'user fee' too?

In a way,yes.You are licensed -to use- a motor vehicle even if it
is not registered to you,like a rental,or another person's licensed
auto. Note that you need no driver's license if you operate
off-road,on private property.Same for lic.plates and registration.

If government could figure out a way to tax it and control it on
private property, they would.

No,because it doesn't affect anyone in the public venue.

That's why they can't. Remove that limitation on government and they
damn well will tax it.

You are simply pointing out a
constitutional issue, and confusing it with paying-for-roads.

No,you simply refuse to acknowledge the obvious.

The obvious is your being picky with tax labels for bicycling and not
being so with autos.

You appear to tbe the "picky" one about labels.
I'm flexible enough to understand what is actually a user fee and what's
not.And honest enough about it.

License plate fees ARE a "user fee";for the *license to USE* the
vehicle on public roads.(state permission)

Not that I have seen in the law.

You just refuse to see.(actually refuse to admit,I know you understand)

I suspect that if this were not part of the argument about licensing
bicycles for road use,you'd have admitted it to be a user fee long
ago.

It's not a user fee in IL. I've had a car ticketed that was parked on
private property for expired registration. It never left the property.

Due to LOCAL laws about junk or abandoned cars that are not garaged,but
left outside.Nothing to do with *using* it on your property.
Same thing happened to me with my first car that I built from two
junkers.(in NY)
I was still able to drive it around the yard legally.

Bogus ticket, because the law doesn't require it, but the cops
certainly don't share your interpetation of it as just a 'user fee'.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

In article , Jim Yanik wrote:

But the license "renewal fee" IS a user fee,it gives you license to USE the
roads;no pay,no use.

Just produce the IL law that says so.

So what? why does it HAVE to "cover" unlimited usage?

If it's a user fee, then it should. Otherwise taxes are coming from
somewhere else to pay for the roads too.

And cig taxes aren't user taxes for anything.

But I have not claimed that cig taxes are user fees.
I merely said that the sticker on the packs is a tax stamp.

Then it's an irrelevant example.

The obvious is your being picky with tax labels for bicycling and not
being so with autos.

You appear to tbe the "picky" one about labels.
I'm flexible enough to understand what is actually a user fee and what's
not.And honest enough about it.

This all started because you don't like bicycling being more than covered
by various non-automotive sources of tax revenue that go to roads. You
bitched there wasn't a specific 'bicycle user fee'. Yet there is no
specific 'automotive user fee' either.

License plate fees ARE a "user fee";for the *license to USE* the
vehicle on public roads.(state permission)

Not that I have seen in the law.

You just refuse to see.(actually refuse to admit,I know you understand)

Show me the relevant law.

I suspect that if this were not part of the argument about licensing
bicycles for road use,you'd have admitted it to be a user fee long
ago.

It's not a user fee in IL. I've had a car ticketed that was parked on
private property for expired registration. It never left the property.

Due to LOCAL laws about junk or abandoned cars that are not garaged,but
left outside.

Not what it was ticketed for. Car appeared perfectly functional and was.

Bogus ticket, because the law doesn't require it, but the cops
certainly don't share your interpetation of it as just a 'user fee'.

(Brent P) wrote in
:

In article , Jim Yanik
wrote:

But the license "renewal fee" IS a user fee,it gives you license to
USE the roads;no pay,no use.

Just produce the IL law that says so.

More dishonesty;you KNOW that even in IL,if your plates are expired,you can
be ticketed and that's it's illegal to drive that vehicle,and that
unregistered autos cannot legally be driven on public rodas.


So what? why does it HAVE to "cover" unlimited usage?

If it's a user fee, then it should.

"should";that's your opinion.Doesn't mean squat.

Otherwise taxes are coming from
somewhere else to pay for the roads too.

And cig taxes aren't user taxes for anything.

But I have not claimed that cig taxes are user fees.
I merely said that the sticker on the packs is a tax stamp.

Then it's an irrelevant example.

Only to you,blind to apparently everything.

The obvious is your being picky with tax labels for bicycling and
not being so with autos.

You appear to tbe the "picky" one about labels.
I'm flexible enough to understand what is actually a user fee and
what's not.And honest enough about it.

This all started because you don't like bicycling being more than
covered by various non-automotive sources of tax revenue that go to
roads. You bitched there wasn't a specific 'bicycle user fee'. Yet
there is no specific 'automotive user fee' either.

Sure there is,I've been telling you about it for a while,now.
You pay it every year.
It's not my fault you cannot(will not) recognize it for what it is.(because
it would prove my point about bicycles not paying any user fees;the sole
reason you persist,IMO.)

License plate fees ARE a "user fee";for the *license to USE* the
vehicle on public roads.(state permission)

Not that I have seen in the law.

You just refuse to see.(actually refuse to admit,I know you
understand)

Show me the relevant law.

I suspect that if this were not part of the argument about
licensing bicycles for road use,you'd have admitted it to be a user
fee long ago.

It's not a user fee in IL. I've had a car ticketed that was parked
on private property for expired registration. It never left the
property.

Due to LOCAL laws about junk or abandoned cars that are not
garaged,but left outside.

Not what it was ticketed for. Car appeared perfectly functional and
was.

That doesn't matter.Many locales require that any motor vehicle with
expired or no plates be garaged,to prevent junkers and abandoned vehicles
from littering the neighborhoods.Some locales will even tow them at your
expense,right off your "private" property.


Bogus ticket, because the law doesn't require it, but the cops
certainly don't share your interpetation of it as just a 'user fee'.





--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net