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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 21st 18, 03:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,142
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look
for that brand then.



Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more
from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard.
Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception
of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.


There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a 1mm variance. You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors! Support your LBS.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #22  
Old March 21st 18, 05:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,485
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 3/21/2018 10:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

-and even more snip-

As Andrew says, standards are wonderful. That's why we have
so many.


Thanks but I pilfered the expression from Sheldon Brown.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #23  
Old March 21st 18, 06:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 869
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

AMuzi wrote:

As Andrew says, standards are wonderful.
That's why we have so many.


Thanks but I pilfered the expression from
Sheldon Brown.


Often in the bicycle press it says "this
conforms with the x.y standard" but it doesn't
say how many bikes are constructed like that,
or speculate how many are likely to be.

I guess any bicycle manufacturer can change
a mm here or there and pretend it is a new
standard? But isn't that actually the opposite
of a standard?

Still, bikes seems to be standardized to an
amazing degree, at least those I see are.
They are even called "standard bikes" here
(which means not a road bike, and not MTB) and
they certainly live up to the designation.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #24  
Old March 21st 18, 06:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,194
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 2018-03-21 08:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying
one
online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier
of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will
look
for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy
more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with
the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.


You're right, there is a real standard for wheel and tire sizes! It's
described in the four tables and one chart toward the bottom of this
page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

As Andrew says, standards are wonderful. That's why we have so many.


Now it would be great if you could explain that to some tire manufacturers.


If you think it's valuable to have a set of water bottle standards,
perhaps you should work up a similar set of tables for water bottles and
their cages. But I doubt very many people will be interested.


The industry should be.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #25  
Old March 21st 18, 06:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,194
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when
buying one online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a
supplier of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before
release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle
https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks,
will look for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy
more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe
with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.


There is a standard -- 73mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water
bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle
on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer
in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its
like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the
bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a
1mm variance.



It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off.


You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole
issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors!
Support your LBS.


I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His web
site is, ahem, not quite there yet.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #26  
Old March 21st 18, 06:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,194
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 2018-03-21 08:14, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:53 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 04:56, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 9:54:55 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 12:45, sms wrote:


[...]


I recently saw adjustable diameter cages that us a rubber strap,
at Target and Walmart. Secure, but time consuming to get the
bottle in and out.


I can also wrap some sort of bungee cord around it, hobo-style.
However, that gets old and the bottle won't go back in easily
without pushing the bungee down.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Your waterbottle holder can't handle a diameter difference of 1.8 mm?
Get a better one.


It can but it cannot when they also messed up the indentation location
by more than 1/4". Which they did. Same for all other holders I tried
and there were some high-priced ones.


Perhaps you need an adjustable bottle cage, one that changes shape to
accommodate different diameters and different lengths of bottles with
different indentation locations. And it should happen automatically!
After all, cars have power seats that adjust to different butts. And we
know your bike already has a proper electrical system.


Both of them do so I could even mount a "his and hers" buttons :-)

Now about that butt adjustment, that would be very cool. On rides longer
than 4-5h it's not fatigue or breath or whatever that irks me. My behind
begins to hurt. And yes, also on the rather expensive WTB seat.


Why is bicycle technology always so far behind car technology?


I don't know but it usually is, by decades. Except when it comes to
suspensions where I think only Citroen and maybe Lincoln can rival what
good MTB have.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #27  
Old March 21st 18, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,142
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 10:44:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

-and even more snip-

As Andrew says, standards are wonderful. That's why we have
so many.


Thanks but I pilfered the expression from Sheldon Brown.


Let's hope Joerg doesn't start buying Italian bicycle clothing. "These shorts were supposed to be XL! They wouldn't fit a dwarf! Is there no standard for XL shorts? When I made medical devices, we were held to a tolerance of .0000001mm!"

He would then note that he could get the shorts over his massive quads, but that either (1) they could not stand up to the mountain lion attacks or day-long pounding on the death trails in Cameron Park, or (2) they were vetoed by his wife.

My wife doesn't micro-manage my equipment decisions, although my son would probably shun me if I put duct tape on my water bottle. He's a real equipment snob. Maybe the duct tape thing would prompt him to give me back my two favorite bottles -- a couple of CamelBaks with the one-way valves.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #28  
Old March 21st 18, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 230
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 8:04:00 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 10:44:35 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:08 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/21/2018 10:51 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

-and even more snip-

As Andrew says, standards are wonderful. That's why we have
so many.


Thanks but I pilfered the expression from Sheldon Brown.


Let's hope Joerg doesn't start buying Italian bicycle clothing. "These shorts were supposed to be XL! They wouldn't fit a dwarf! Is there no standard for XL shorts? When I made medical devices, we were held to a tolerance of .0000001mm!"

He would then note that he could get the shorts over his massive quads, but that either (1) they could not stand up to the mountain lion attacks or day-long pounding on the death trails in Cameron Park, or (2) they were vetoed by his wife.

My wife doesn't micro-manage my equipment decisions, although my son would probably shun me if I put duct tape on my water bottle. He's a real equipment snob. Maybe the duct tape thing would prompt him to give me back my two favorite bottles -- a couple of CamelBaks with the one-way valves.

-- Jay Beattie.


My favorites too.The only bottles I used that do't leak.

Lou
  #29  
Old March 21st 18, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,142
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when
buying one online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a
supplier of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before
release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle
https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks,
will look for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy
more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe
with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows.


There is a standard -- 73mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water
bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle
on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer
in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its
like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the
bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot accommodate a
1mm variance.



It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off.


You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole
issue by going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the colors!
Support your LBS.


I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His web
site is, ahem, not quite there yet.


Who cares about price! The spread couldn't be more than a buck or two, and you want to support the shop. You get cool looking bottles with graphics that make you part of the Sam's Town Cyclery in-crowd. People will come up to you on the trail while you're petting horses and want to talk about Sam's Town. You'll make friends and influence people.

I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped, but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables. Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.

-- Jay Beattie.



  #30  
Old March 21st 18, 07:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,194
Default Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?

On 2018-03-21 12:20, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-21 08:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote:
On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote:

snip

The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper
when buying one online?

Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy
from a supplier of bicycle equipment.


But is sez "bike bottle" ...

https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26

I guess they need to learn and test their designs before
release.


I like the Clean Designs bottle
https://www.cleanbottle.com/


30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though.
Thanks, will look for that brand then.


Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle?
https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg


I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just
buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove.

The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real
standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well,
maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody
knows.

There is a standard -- 73mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty
water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew
a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle
manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle
water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I
wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of
carcinogens.

What's more surprising to me is that your cages cannot
accommodate a 1mm variance.



It's almost 2mm and as I wrote the indentation is also way off.


You need better cages. You can also avoid the whole issue by
going over to your lauded trail-end bike shop, Sam's Town
Cyclery, and buying bottles that you know will fit. Fly the
colors! Support your LBS.


I will if his prices are reasonable and he has 25oz bottles. His
web site is, ahem, not quite there yet.


Who cares about price! The spread couldn't be more than a buck or
two, and you want to support the shop. You get cool looking bottles
with graphics that make you part of the Sam's Town Cyclery in-crowd.
People will come up to you on the trail while you're petting horses
and want to talk about Sam's Town. You'll make friends and influence
people.


For about 20-30 rides, then the bottle looks blackish and sand-blasted
and nothing will be readable.


I'm about to walk over to the Bike Gallery to buy a tube and some
glue (flat on the way to work, old glue tube dried out and wrong size
spare tube). I might just get the glue. Anyway, I'll get scalped,
but for what -- a $1? They're nice guys and worked hard to coordinate
the delivery of my Trek from Trek Co. Shout out to Justin. Anyway, I
get endless free advice from them, and it does not pain me to pay a
little more than internet bargain-basement prices for disposables.
Yes, there is a point when it becomes highway robbery for a tube, but
BG is not that kind of shop. You also have to look at it as an
average. I've gotten some killer sale-table deals from BG.


I don't mind either if it's a couple of buck more. Got to support the
local guys which is why I bought my MTB locally for about $100 more
versus online. What I do mind is if stuff costs 5x or more versus
online. As is often the case with brake pads, caliper extenders, lights
and so on.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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