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  #11  
Old March 28th 18, 04:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
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Posts: 85
Default Silent hubs

On 28/03/2018 2:42 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 2:47:37 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:53:31 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:47:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left"
when rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.

It's amazing how loud some freehubs are. It's like rattling a playing
card against the spokes, like we did as kids to pretend we were on
motorcycles. A card and a clothespin, vroom!


Dude, having a freehub that sounds like a swarm of angry bees is a status symbol. You pair that with deep dish aero wheels that give off a low rumble, and you're set. Totally dope.

-- Jay Beattie.


Maybe, but I'm looking forward to it:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ny15RngXVBp1Vei33

I'll promise I will not use this bike for group rides ;-)

Lou


Nice.
Ads
  #12  
Old March 28th 18, 05:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,803
Default Silent hubs

On 3/28/2018 6:48 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 27-03-18 22:47, Joerg wrote:
Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left" when
rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.


How can I get people to holler that here in Switzerland? Or maybe ring a
bell? It's just not customary here, and no one does it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in downtown Zurich, riding on a road with 2
sets of tram tracks. Approaching a stoplight, I signaled to the car
behind me that I wanted to turn left, andÂ* moved to the left side of my
lane. The motorist clearly saw that, so I saw no need to keep signaling
the turn. As the light turned green, I moved into the intersection to
cross the second set of tram tracks and to turn. Just then another guy
on a bike came up from behind even further to the left (in the lane
going against traffic on the other side of the intersection). I didn't
see him coming, turned into him so that my handlebars caught his, and so
slowly tipped over onto the pavement. Fortunately only a couple of minor
scratches, but could have been a lot worse.


I use an eyeglass mirror. While it's not foolproof, I think it's a great
help and might have prevented your crash. But I doubt you'll ever get
most people to ride competently.

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say something
about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when passing.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of who
is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he snuck up
on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and passed me quite
closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that first, he probably
shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was really necessary, he should
at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my _left_. As
he did he called out "On your right."

Some people are just uneducable.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old March 28th 18, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 160
Default Silent hubs

Am 28.03.2018 um 18:10 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
On 3/28/2018 6:48 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 27-03-18 22:47, Joerg wrote:
Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left" when
rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.


How can I get people to holler that here in Switzerland? Or maybe ring a
bell? It's just not customary here, and no one does it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in downtown Zurich, riding on a road with 2
sets of tram tracks. Approaching a stoplight, I signaled to the car
behind me that I wanted to turn left, and* moved to the left side of my
lane. The motorist clearly saw that, so I saw no need to keep signaling
the turn. As the light turned green, I moved into the intersection to
cross the second set of tram tracks and to turn. Just then another guy
on a bike came up from behind even further to the left (in the lane
going against traffic on the other side of the intersection). I didn't
see him coming, turned into him so that my handlebars caught his, and so
slowly tipped over onto the pavement. Fortunately only a couple of minor
scratches, but could have been a lot worse.


I use an eyeglass mirror. While it's not foolproof, I think it's a great
help and might have prevented your crash. But I doubt you'll ever get
most people to ride competently.

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say something
about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when passing.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of who
is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he snuck up
on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and passed me quite
closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that first, he probably
shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was really necessary, he should
at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my _left_. As
he did he called out "On your right."

Some people are just uneducable.



  #14  
Old March 28th 18, 05:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 160
Default Silent hubs

Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say something
about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when passing.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of who
is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he snuck up
on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and passed me quite
closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that first, he probably
shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was really necessary, he should
at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my _left_. As
he did he called out "On your right."

Some people are just uneducable.


e.g., whoever invented a safety message that starts with two identical
syllables, regardless on which side the obstacle is to be expected, and
which, to the uninitiated, does not indicate if the core content
(left/right) indicates an obstacle or the safe direction.

When your driver needs to perform an emergency maneuver into the cornfield,
you certainly would not want to point at the large tree next to the road and
shout, "Now don't you drive into that giant tree!"
  #15  
Old March 28th 18, 07:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,018
Default Silent hubs

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 11:42:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 2:47:37 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:53:31 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:47:58 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left"
when rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.

It's amazing how loud some freehubs are. It's like rattling a playing
card against the spokes, like we did as kids to pretend we were on
motorcycles. A card and a clothespin, vroom!


Dude, having a freehub that sounds like a swarm of angry bees is a status symbol. You pair that with deep dish aero wheels that give off a low rumble, and you're set. Totally dope.

-- Jay Beattie.


Maybe, but I'm looking forward to it:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ny15RngXVBp1Vei33

I'll promise I will not use this bike for group rides ;-)


Did you get your Movistar contract?

Although you went for premium, Canyon is still an incredible deal. It's like getting pro deal on a Madone or S-Works Venge. You look at the frames, components and price and wonder how the big-boys can compete. I still think, though, that they need to put fender mounts on their Endurance line. I know the Europeans don't go for fenders, but I do -- particularly riding in groups.

I'd get an aero bike, but I have to lose 30 years. My next big move is to an eBike -- or an electric scooter at the retirement home.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #16  
Old March 28th 18, 08:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,018
Default Silent hubs

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 9:10:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2018 6:48 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 27-03-18 22:47, Joerg wrote:
Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left" when
rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.


How can I get people to holler that here in Switzerland? Or maybe ring a
bell? It's just not customary here, and no one does it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in downtown Zurich, riding on a road with 2
sets of tram tracks. Approaching a stoplight, I signaled to the car
behind me that I wanted to turn left, andÂ* moved to the left side of my
lane. The motorist clearly saw that, so I saw no need to keep signaling
the turn. As the light turned green, I moved into the intersection to
cross the second set of tram tracks and to turn. Just then another guy
on a bike came up from behind even further to the left (in the lane
going against traffic on the other side of the intersection). I didn't
see him coming, turned into him so that my handlebars caught his, and so
slowly tipped over onto the pavement. Fortunately only a couple of minor
scratches, but could have been a lot worse.


I use an eyeglass mirror. While it's not foolproof, I think it's a great
help and might have prevented your crash. But I doubt you'll ever get
most people to ride competently.

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say something
about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when passing.


I don't say "on your left when passing" because half the time, the rider startles and goes left. Cars don't say "on your left" when passing. Why should bikes. I'd get kicked out of your club.

Some lady gave me a load of crap about not saying "on your left" when I passed on an ascending bike path about a lane wide. https://www.portlandoregon..gov/shar....cfm?id=504349 This is why I avoid the crowded bike facilities -- endless officious, dawdling newbie know-it-alls with 8-ball helmets and ringy-bells.

The fact is, riding around here is often pack riding -- and people should learn to ride in a pack and get used to being passed. In very close quarters, I will call out -- like passing on the Hawthorne Bridge where a bump can drop you off the elevated facility onto a metal deck bridge, but in a wide facility or on the road, I just go around.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of who
is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he snuck up
on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and passed me quite
closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that first, he probably
shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was really necessary, he should
at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my _left_. As
he did he called out "On your right."


You'd certainly hate my cohort -- a bunch of old racers who are rock-solid in close quarters and content with bumping shoulders. I hate civilian packs because a bump can mean a crash. A candy wrapper in the road can mean a crash.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #17  
Old March 28th 18, 10:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,803
Default Silent hubs

On 3/28/2018 3:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 9:10:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2018 6:48 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 27-03-18 22:47, Joerg wrote:
Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left" when
rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.

How can I get people to holler that here in Switzerland? Or maybe ring a
bell? It's just not customary here, and no one does it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in downtown Zurich, riding on a road with 2
sets of tram tracks. Approaching a stoplight, I signaled to the car
behind me that I wanted to turn left, andÂ* moved to the left side of my
lane. The motorist clearly saw that, so I saw no need to keep signaling
the turn. As the light turned green, I moved into the intersection to
cross the second set of tram tracks and to turn. Just then another guy
on a bike came up from behind even further to the left (in the lane
going against traffic on the other side of the intersection). I didn't
see him coming, turned into him so that my handlebars caught his, and so
slowly tipped over onto the pavement. Fortunately only a couple of minor
scratches, but could have been a lot worse.


I use an eyeglass mirror. While it's not foolproof, I think it's a great
help and might have prevented your crash. But I doubt you'll ever get
most people to ride competently.

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say something
about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when passing.


I don't say "on your left when passing" because half the time, the rider startles and goes left. Cars don't say "on your left" when passing. Why should bikes. I'd get kicked out of your club.

Some lady gave me a load of crap about not saying "on your left" when I passed on an ascending bike path about a lane wide. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/share....cfm?id=504349 This is why I avoid the crowded bike facilities -- endless officious, dawdling newbie know-it-alls with 8-ball helmets and ringy-bells.

The fact is, riding around here is often pack riding -- and people should learn to ride in a pack and get used to being passed. In very close quarters, I will call out -- like passing on the Hawthorne Bridge where a bump can drop you off the elevated facility onto a metal deck bridge, but in a wide facility or on the road, I just go around.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of who
is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he snuck up
on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and passed me quite
closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that first, he probably
shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was really necessary, he should
at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my _left_. As
he did he called out "On your right."


You'd certainly hate my cohort -- a bunch of old racers who are rock-solid in close quarters and content with bumping shoulders. I hate civilian packs because a bump can mean a crash. A candy wrapper in the road can mean a crash.


Racers in a pack don't call out "on your left" because they're always in
close quarters and they know it. They're focused on what the pack is
doing and what they're going to do. Your ex-racer cohorts are probably
riding in that same style.

And yes, a random sample of Portland commuters will likely include a
significant number that have never heard that warning before, or don't
remember which way is "left." Those people are common on MUPs, too. They
require much more care.

But the rides I'm talking about are two or three hour social rides, a
loosely spaced bunch of friends who are cruising and conversing on rural
roads. People occasionally move up or back depending on conversation
topic, changes in scenery, terrain or just wild hairs. It's a relaxed
vibe, different from the intense single-mindedness of a race or training
ride. It's useful to communicate.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old March 29th 18, 03:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,037
Default Silent hubs

On 2018-03-28 12:35, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 9:10:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 3/28/2018 6:48 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 27-03-18 22:47, Joerg wrote:
Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your
left" when rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.

How can I get people to holler that here in Switzerland? Or maybe
ring a bell? It's just not customary here, and no one does it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in downtown Zurich, riding on a road
with 2 sets of tram tracks. Approaching a stoplight, I signaled
to the car behind me that I wanted to turn left, and moved to
the left side of my lane. The motorist clearly saw that, so I saw
no need to keep signaling the turn. As the light turned green, I
moved into the intersection to cross the second set of tram
tracks and to turn. Just then another guy on a bike came up from
behind even further to the left (in the lane going against
traffic on the other side of the intersection). I didn't see him
coming, turned into him so that my handlebars caught his, and so
slowly tipped over onto the pavement. Fortunately only a couple
of minor scratches, but could have been a lot worse.


I use an eyeglass mirror. While it's not foolproof, I think it's a
great help and might have prevented your crash. But I doubt you'll
ever get most people to ride competently.

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say
something about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when
passing.


I don't say "on your left when passing" because half the time, the
rider startles and goes left. Cars don't say "on your left" when
passing. Why should bikes.



Cars happen to have several things most bikes don't: Rear view mirrors,
two outside mirrors and turn signals which are supposed to be activated
when overtaking another vehicle.


... I'd get kicked out of your club.


Then do it like I do. Most of the time I am a club of one, sometimes two.


Some lady gave me a load of crap about not saying "on your left" when
I passed on an ascending bike path about a lane wide.



Then try "alt-left" and she might really blow a gasket :-)


https://www.portlandoregon.gov/share....cfm?id=504349 This
is why I avoid the crowded bike facilities -- endless officious,
dawdling newbie know-it-alls with 8-ball helmets and ringy-bells.

The fact is, riding around here is often pack riding -- and people
should learn to ride in a pack and get used to being passed. In very
close quarters, I will call out -- like passing on the Hawthorne
Bridge where a bump can drop you off the elevated facility onto a
metal deck bridge, but in a wide facility or on the road, I just go
around.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of
who is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he
snuck up on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and
passed me quite closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that
first, he probably shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was
really necessary, he should at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my
_left_. As he did he called out "On your right."


You'd certainly hate my cohort -- a bunch of old racers who are
rock-solid in close quarters and content with bumping shoulders.



My wife would want to hear assurances that the team doesn't include
pretty female riders I'd bump shoulders with ...


... I
hate civilian packs because a bump can mean a crash. A candy wrapper
in the road can mean a crash.


Civilian? Y'all carry your DD-214?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #19  
Old March 30th 18, 05:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,080
Default Silent hubs

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 19:18:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Cars happen to have several things most bikes don't: Rear view mirrors,
two outside mirrors and turn signals which are supposed to be activated
when overtaking another vehicle.


I can remember when cars were expected to honk before overtaking, but
that was deprecated long before I took driving lessons.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

  #20  
Old March 30th 18, 09:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,902
Default Silent hubs

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:20:08 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/28/2018 3:35 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 9:10:40 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/28/2018 6:48 AM, Ned Mantei wrote:
On 27-03-18 22:47, Joerg wrote:
Many folks with other freehubs don't need to holler "on your left" when
rolling downhill because you can hear the GRRRR.

How can I get people to holler that here in Switzerland? Or maybe ring a
bell? It's just not customary here, and no one does it.

A couple of weeks ago I was in downtown Zurich, riding on a road with 2
sets of tram tracks. Approaching a stoplight, I signaled to the car
behind me that I wanted to turn left, and* moved to the left side of my
lane. The motorist clearly saw that, so I saw no need to keep signaling
the turn. As the light turned green, I moved into the intersection to
cross the second set of tram tracks and to turn. Just then another guy
on a bike came up from behind even further to the left (in the lane
going against traffic on the other side of the intersection). I didn't
see him coming, turned into him so that my handlebars caught his, and so
slowly tipped over onto the pavement. Fortunately only a couple of minor
scratches, but could have been a lot worse.

I use an eyeglass mirror. While it's not foolproof, I think it's a great
help and might have prevented your crash. But I doubt you'll ever get
most people to ride competently.

I'm safety chairman for our bike club, and I occasionally say something
about those members who refuse to say "On your left" when passing.


I don't say "on your left when passing" because half the time, the rider startles and goes left. Cars don't say "on your left" when passing. Why should bikes. I'd get kicked out of your club.

Some lady gave me a load of crap about not saying "on your left" when I passed on an ascending bike path about a lane wide. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/share....cfm?id=504349 This is why I avoid the crowded bike facilities -- endless officious, dawdling newbie know-it-alls with 8-ball helmets and ringy-bells.

The fact is, riding around here is often pack riding -- and people should learn to ride in a pack and get used to being passed. In very close quarters, I will call out -- like passing on the Hawthorne Bridge where a bump can drop you off the elevated facility onto a metal deck bridge, but in a wide facility or on the road, I just go around.

And on group rides, I'm always trying to keep a mental inventory of who
is where. But one guy is amazingly unpredictable. One day, he snuck up
on my right (where the mirror couldn't detect him) and passed me quite
closely. I chewed him out mildly, saying that first, he probably
shouldn't pass on the right; but if it was really necessary, he should
at least call out "On your right."

Within ten minutes, he passed me again, elbow to elbow on my _left_. As
he did he called out "On your right."


You'd certainly hate my cohort -- a bunch of old racers who are rock-solid in close quarters and content with bumping shoulders. I hate civilian packs because a bump can mean a crash. A candy wrapper in the road can mean a crash.


Racers in a pack don't call out "on your left" because they're always in
close quarters and they know it. They're focused on what the pack is
doing and what they're going to do. Your ex-racer cohorts are probably
riding in that same style.

And yes, a random sample of Portland commuters will likely include a
significant number that have never heard that warning before, or don't
remember which way is "left." Those people are common on MUPs, too. They
require much more care.

But the rides I'm talking about are two or three hour social rides, a
loosely spaced bunch of friends who are cruising and conversing on rural
roads. People occasionally move up or back depending on conversation
topic, changes in scenery, terrain or just wild hairs. It's a relaxed
vibe, different from the intense single-mindedness of a race or training
ride. It's useful to communicate.



I occasionally pass someone and am frequently passed by others and I
can't remember ever having anyone say something like "on your left (Or
right)". I suggest that on a normal road where you will likely be
giving someone 2 to 3 feet of clearance it may well not be necessary.
On the other hand, if you are riding with the shoulder bumping crowd
you'll probable be hearing "Out of the way!" more frequently then "on
the left".

--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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