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#141
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
TimC wrote:
The way I learnt to drive was by tractor first, when I was 10 or so. Mum was amazed when she couldn't work out how to back the trailer full of oranges back around the corner from the edge of rows of oranges, into one row, and I did it with ease. She reckons I did it with ease because of all the technical lego I played with. Lego hadn't been invented when I was a kid. Being in Holland, the bicycle was the obvious vehicle for me. I rode at age four (training wheels had also not been invented) and rode to my (Montessori) pre-school that same year. In a study released recently, according to JJJ news this morning, You listen to JJJ? Aaaarghh! Theo |
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#142
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
Theo Bekkers Wrote: EuanB wrote: Theo Bekkers Wrote: stuff I don't agree. Of course you don't . :-) Learn your road craft on a vehicle which is much less likely to kill or maim others. Good road craft has everything to do with driving a motor car on the road. So when you go for your driving test in Euanland, you will first be issued with a pram. When you show competency at manouvring the pram, you will progress to a tricycle, skateboard, roller blades, wheelchair, bicycle, scooter, motorcycle, and then a 2CV, before progressing to a 4 cyl Getz. Did I say that? Don't think I did. What I said was that it would be a good idea to learn your road craft on a bicycle. If you stuff up you're much less likely to harm others and you learn how to operate a bicycle in traffic, a useful skill. Once copentance on a bicycle is demonstrated, then go for your car license. What do you find so difficult to understand about that Theo? -- EuanB |
#143
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
EuanB wrote:
Did I say that? Don't think I did. What I said was that it would be a good idea to learn your road craft on a bicycle. If you stuff up you're much less likely to harm others and you learn how to operate a bicycle in traffic, a useful skill. Once copentance on a bicycle is demonstrated, then go for your car license. What do you find so difficult to understand about that Theo? Whilst I agree with what you say above, that competence on a bicycle certainly is desirable and a good way to learn roadcraft, I find it difficult to understand why a person _must_ have competence on a bicycle to obtain a driver's licence. To me, it makes less sense than having competence riding a horse to get a licence to drive a horse and buggy. Theo |
#144
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On 2007-05-02, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: EuanB wrote: Once copentance on a bicycle is demonstrated, then go for your car license. What do you find so difficult to understand about that Theo? Whilst I agree with what you say above, that competence on a bicycle certainly is desirable and a good way to learn roadcraft, I find it difficult to understand why a person _must_ have competence on a bicycle to obtain a driver's licence. To me, it makes less sense than having competence riding a horse to get a licence to drive a horse and buggy. Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that which about 80% of current drivers do not currently have -- ie, the dangerous idiots who feel it justified to overtake on double white lines around a blind corner -- higher proportions in Greensborough). You'll do much less damage to other people, being incompetant at the former rather than the latter. -- TimC Sorry if there are error (factual or otherwise) in transmission - I'm sending this message by manually feeding signals down the gigabit fiber link with a laser pointer. |
#145
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 16:37:29 +1000
TimC wrote: Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that Pity someone with poor balance. Or with a leg injury eh? Zebee |
#146
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On 2007-05-02, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 16:37:29 +1000 TimC wrote: Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that Pity someone with poor balance. Or with a leg injury eh? We already mentioned that they're be medical exceptions at the top of this thread. -- TimC A debugged program is one for which you have not yet found the conditions that make it fail. -- Jerry Ogdin |
#147
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 18:27:00 +1000
TimC wrote: On 2007-05-02, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce) was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 16:37:29 +1000 TimC wrote: Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that Pity someone with poor balance. Or with a leg injury eh? We already mentioned that they're be medical exceptions at the top of this thread. If you are going to make major blanket statements, might be an idea to make your own exceptions... Because without that, your statement is nonsense. Riding a bicycle is a physical skill not a mental one. You can see kids perfectly able to ride bicycles who have no traffic sense at all. Having driven a car for some years does not, it seems, give someone more than minimal competence in traffic riding a motorcycle. They can read the traffic at traffic speeds better than a complete novice but there are other variables they don't quite manage. I find that riding a bicycle doesn't seem to be the same as driving a car. Speeds are different, what I'm looking for is different, the decisions I take are different. I think the best bet is to train people for what they are doing, not something a bit like it if you squint. Zebee |
#148
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On Wed, 02 May 2007 12:32:45 +0800, Theo Bekkers wrote:
Why not a mandatory electric wheelchair? One of those Gopher things. I have owned one for ten years but my mother-in-law rides it. Theo, why do your family's vehicles always pop up in these threads? -- Dave Hughes | I think it's a beautiful day to go to the zoo and feed the ducks. To the lions. -- Brian Kantor |
#149
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On 2007-05-02, Dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: On Wed, 02 May 2007 12:32:45 +0800, Theo Bekkers wrote: Why not a mandatory electric wheelchair? One of those Gopher things. I have owned one for ten years but my mother-in-law rides it. Theo, why do your family's vehicles always pop up in these threads? Was this one made by Mercedes? -- TimC All science is either physics or stamp collecting. -- Ernest Rutherford |
#150
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
"Theo Bekkers" wrote in message ... Plodder wrote: "Bleve" wrote Or maybe we're at cross porpoises? Maybe rooman *isn't* suggesting that CA can, without a significant change in its charter, administer and train road riding safety trainers and examiners? Ah, we're back to the ambiguity of "compulsory/mandatory". I'm not necessarily in favour of "compulsory licence/training for cyclists" I am in favour of compulsory/mandatory bicycle training as a part of driver training. Whether someone does or doesn't become a cyclist is their choice, but if they want to learn to drive a car, first they must learn about riding a bicycle. My thinking is that it will help make the upcoming crop of drivers more bicycle aware. That's why I think it would be relatively simple for the state road licencing people to administer. Perhaps while they're at it, they can teach them to be good pedestrians as well. And, whilst we have them confined to the classroom, we can teach them to say please and thank you, not use the word orientated because oriented is the correct usage, cover their mouth when they sneeze, let the missus have the remote control sometimes, and a lot of other social things that would be nice but have little or no relation to driving a motor car on the road. Maybe, just maybe, we could encourage parents to teach their children some roadcraft and leave bicycle training to them. Theo And why not have bogan dad teach little mullet-boy to drive too, and do away with those pesky tests? I know, I know; you learned to drive your uncle's ute on the farm when you were three months old and only had to drive around the block from the cop shop to the pub to get your licence. Times have moved on. I've never felt threatened while riding my bike by someone driving a car who sneezed without covering their mouth. I have felt endangered by people driving as though they have no idea about how to treat other road users. I agree that, ideally, road sharing is a social game. However, we all need to share an understanding of the game rules. The best way to acheive that understanding is to all be taught pretty well the same set of rules. We unleash kids on bicycles without road rule training - remember, they are not taught road rules until they apply for a driving licence. Why not start road rule training on the transport available to them (bicycles) at school and ensure their knowledge is reasonable (weasel word!) when they apply for permission to drive a motor vehicle? I'm trying to work out how "...a lot of other social things that would be nice but have little or no relation to driving a motor car on the road." is the same as teaching people bicycle skills and road use. Doesn't knowing how to respond to other traffic (including bicyles) have some relation to driving a motor car on the road? Perhaps you're confusing the idea of driving a motor vehicle (making it go/stop/turn, etc) with shared road use. There's a world of difference. me |
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