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Latex on tubular base tape
Without getting into a discussion on merits/disadvantages to tubular
tires, can anyone explain why there is a layer of latex on the base tape of some tubular tires? Thanks. Richard |
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#2
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Latex on tubular base tape
Latex is used as an adhesive to hold the base tape to the tire.
It is not temperature sensitive like ordinary sew-up glue, so the tape will not come off when the wheel gets hot. The tire may come off the rim, though. -- Jay Beattie. wrote in message oups.com... Without getting into a discussion on merits/disadvantages to tubular tires, can anyone explain why there is a layer of latex on the base tape of some tubular tires? Thanks. Richard |
#3
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Latex on tubular base tape
Who still rides tubular tires, and why? I stopped in a bike shop yesterday. I asked the owner what they use in track racing. I trust he knows. I asked specifically about tires and pedals. He said they use special clipless pedals and clincher tires. If clincher tires are good enough for track racers, I can't think of a practical purpose for tubulars any more. Tom |
#4
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Latex on tubular base tape
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:03:37 -0400, Tom Reingold
wrote: Who still rides tubular tires, and why? I stopped in a bike shop yesterday. I asked the owner what they use in track racing. I trust he knows. I asked specifically about tires and pedals. He said they use special clipless pedals and clincher tires. If clincher tires are good enough for track racers, I can't think of a practical purpose for tubulars any more. Tom Dear Tom, Most of the Tour de France is ridden on tubulars. Because it's glued to the rim, you can continue riding a flat tubular while waiting for the support car and mechanic to rush up and slap in a new wheel. (A flat clincher is much harder to ride.) You also expect to have fewer impact flats, even at lower and more comfortable pressures, because the tublar tire and rim don't tend to pinch things like a clincher rim. Pros like the idea of a more comfortable, more reliable tire, and they have someone else to take care of gluing up a dozen spare wheels. People also talk about handling, weight, rolling resistance, and other somewhat dubious matters, but fewer flats, more comfortable pressures, and the ability to keep going when flats do occur seem to be the practical reasons. Of course, outside such races, tubulars are popular for reasons of tradition, fashion, and the love of fooling with sticky, tricky stuff. Carl Fogel |
#5
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Latex on tubular base tape
Richard Ling writes:
Without getting into a discussion on merits/disadvantages to tubular tires, can anyone explain why there is a layer of latex on the base tape of some tubular tires? Pressure sensitive rim glues (what most of them are) have a tacky stiff surface that, without a smooth surface on the tire, would make marginal contact and possibly have a poor hold between tire and rim. Bare cloth base tapes are needed for tires using track glue (aka shellac) which does not make a good interface to a rubberized base tape, the glue being hard and the tape elastic. For a secure hold, tubulars with bare cloth base tapes must be prepared by spreading rim glue on both rim and base tape to insure a continuous contact interface. I haven't met anyone who uses track glue in years so I don't know why bare base tape tubulars are still made, other than to reduce manufacturing cost. Jobst Brandt |
#6
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Latex on tubular base tape
Carl Fogel writes:
Who still rides tubular tires, and why? I stopped in a bike shop yesterday. I asked the owner what they use in track racing. I trust he knows. I asked specifically about tires and pedals. He said they use special clipless pedals and clincher tires. If clincher tires are good enough for track racers, I can't think of a practical purpose for tubulars any more. Most of the Tour de France is ridden on tubulars. This is often claimed but I haven't seen evidence of that among the professional racers in similar events that I had the opportunity to inspect. I have not seen TdF bicycles at close enough range to determine what sort of tires they had. Because it's glued to the rim, you can continue riding a flat tubular while waiting for the support car and mechanic to rush up and slap in a new wheel. (A flat clincher is much harder to ride.) I don't believe you are speaking from experience. I have ridden many miles on both flat tubulars and clinchers, on pavement and dirt roads, and found there to be no significant difference. I believe this story is propagated from hearsay. You also expect to have fewer impact flats, even at lower and more comfortable pressures, because the tubular tire and rim don't tend to pinch things like a clincher rim. Pros like the idea of a more comfortable, more reliable tire, and they have someone else to take care of gluing up a dozen spare wheels. The lower pinch flat rate that some tubular tires have is achieved by the use of thin latex tubes, thin latex tubes having many times the stretch limit before perforation than butyl tubes. So if you were to hammer on a tube inside a tire casing lying on a smooth surface, it would take several times the force to perforate the latex tube. It has nothing to do with the rim; the rim never contacting the tube that lies inside the tire casing. The term "snake bite" flat originated at my Wednesday tubular repair sessions in the1960's and -70's because the holes were so small, the second on often invisible without inflation that pinch flats were scrutinized for the second "snake bite" hole... before patching and sewing the tire casing only to fins a slower leak at the same location. People also talk about handling, weight, rolling resistance, and other somewhat dubious matters, but fewer flats, more comfortable pressures, and the ability to keep going when flats do occur seem to be the practical reasons. This sounds much like the leg shaving excuse where riders claim they do it for crashing to prevent subsequent hair entrapment in their precious bodily fluids. Of course, outside such races, tubulars are popular for reasons of tradition, fashion, and the love of fooling with sticky, tricky stuff. That can be reduced to "me-too", the pros do it. Jobst Brandt |
#7
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Latex on tubular base tape
On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 16:03:37 -0400, Tom Reingold
wrote: Who still rides tubular tires, I do sometimes. and why? Lighter rims. Probably more resistance to pinch flats. If clincher tires are good enough for track racers, I can't think of a practical purpose for tubulars any more. Probably resistance to pinch flats. Not an issue on the track. JT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#8
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Latex on tubular base tape
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#9
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Latex on tubular base tape
wrote:
Carl Fogel writes: Who still rides tubular tires, and why? I stopped in a bike shop yesterday. I asked the owner what they use in track racing. I trust he knows. I asked specifically about tires and pedals. He said they use special clipless pedals and clincher tires. If clincher tires are good enough for track racers, I can't think of a practical purpose for tubulars any more. Responding to the person who stated this. Clinchers may be used at the local velodrome by some. But at the upper levels, tubulars are used on the track. If you look at the wheels the pros use, Mavic disks and Campagnolo Ghibli disks, Campagnolo Pista wheels, Mavic 5 spoke wheels, these ONLY come in tubular. No clincher verison of these track wheels exist in the world. There is no question about whether these riders are using tubular or clincher. Do a Google search for the Mavic and Campagnolo websites and you can determine for yourself that the disk wheels and track wheels are only available in tubular. Go over to the www. cyclingnews.com website for pictures of various professional track events around the world and look at the wheels being used. Most of the Tour de France is ridden on tubulars. This is often claimed but I haven't seen evidence of that among the professional racers in similar events that I had the opportunity to inspect. I have not seen TdF bicycles at close enough range to determine what sort of tires they had. www.cyclingnews.com website has pictures of bikes used in the Tour de France. And other professional races. I guess one could always claim the bikes in the pictures are not really the ones being ridden during the race itself and the tubular wheels shown in the picture are changed out for the superior clinchers before the race. In many of the Tour and other race pictures you see riders using Campagnolo Bora wheels, Lightweight wheels, ADA wheels, etc. These are all carbon wheels ONLY available in tubular. There is no clincher version of these wheels. How can the racers in the Tour pictures not be riding tubulars? Because it's glued to the rim, you can continue riding a flat tubular while waiting for the support car and mechanic to rush up and slap in a new wheel. (A flat clincher is much harder to ride.) I don't believe you are speaking from experience. I have ridden many miles on both flat tubulars and clinchers, on pavement and dirt roads, and found there to be no significant difference. I believe this story is propagated from hearsay. You also expect to have fewer impact flats, even at lower and more comfortable pressures, because the tubular tire and rim don't tend to pinch things like a clincher rim. Pros like the idea of a more comfortable, more reliable tire, and they have someone else to take care of gluing up a dozen spare wheels. The lower pinch flat rate that some tubular tires have is achieved by the use of thin latex tubes, thin latex tubes having many times the stretch limit before perforation than butyl tubes. So if you were to hammer on a tube inside a tire casing lying on a smooth surface, it would take several times the force to perforate the latex tube. It has nothing to do with the rim; the rim never contacting the tube that lies inside the tire casing. My Continental Sprinter tubulars have butyl tubes. I suffered very few if any pinch flats with them. I have pinch flatted clinchers with butyl tubes. The tubulars were ridden at lower pressure too. The term "snake bite" flat originated at my Wednesday tubular repair sessions in the1960's and -70's because the holes were so small, the second on often invisible without inflation that pinch flats were scrutinized for the second "snake bite" hole... before patching and sewing the tire casing only to fins a slower leak at the same location. People also talk about handling, weight, rolling resistance, and other somewhat dubious matters, but fewer flats, more comfortable pressures, and the ability to keep going when flats do occur seem to be the practical reasons. This sounds much like the leg shaving excuse where riders claim they do it for crashing to prevent subsequent hair entrapment in their precious bodily fluids. No personal experience, but I have heard getting a massage on smooth hairless skin is preferable to hairy skin. I believe professional racers get massages quite frequently. Of course, outside such races, tubulars are popular for reasons of tradition, fashion, and the love of fooling with sticky, tricky stuff. That can be reduced to "me-too", the pros do it. Jobst Brandt |
#10
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Latex on tubular base tape
Mike Krueger40 writes:
Most of the Tour de France is ridden on tubulars. This is often claimed but I haven't seen evidence of that among the professional racers in similar events that I had the opportunity to inspect. I have not seen TdF bicycles at close enough range to determine what sort of tires they had. The last seven Tours de France were won on tubular tires, and the guy who won never suffered a flat tire during the race. So what? On most of my trips in the Alps that cover about the same distance and more climbing than the TdF, I never pump my clincher tires for the distance. What does that prove other than that the tubes do not leak down as fast as the Clement Tubulars with latex tubes that I used to ride on these tours, pumping them up daily. http://tinyurl.com/adls Because it's glued to the rim, you can continue riding a flat tubular while waiting for the support car and mechanic to rush up and slap in a new wheel. (A flat clincher is much harder to ride.) I don't believe you are speaking from experience. I have ridden many miles on both flat tubulars and clinchers, on pavement and dirt roads, and found there to be no significant difference. I believe this story is propagated from hearsay. In my experience, a deflated, beaded tire is more likely to separate from the rim that one which is cemented on. I take it you mean clincher in contrast to tubular tire. So you used less appropriate tires. Mine once stayed on for more than 10 miles of riding flat with a smashed rim. However,riding with a flat tubular occurred more often because we were often ran out of spares and had to ride the flat, ruining the rim. http://tinyurl.com/c543 You also expect to have fewer impact flats, even at lower and more comfortable pressures, because the tubular tire and rim don't tend to pinch things like a clincher rim. Pros like the idea of a more comfortable, more reliable tire, and they have someone else to take care of gluing up a dozen spare wheels. The lower pinch flat rate that some tubular tires have is achieved by the use of thin latex tubes, thin latex tubes having many times the stretch limit before perforation than butyl tubes. So if you were to hammer on a tube inside a tire casing lying on a smooth surface, it would take several times the force to perforate the latex tube. It has nothing to do with the rim; the rim never contacting the tube that lies inside the tire casing. I have been riding tubulars exclusively for over a decade, and I have never suffered a pinch flat, even at pressures as low as 90 psi. Prior to that, while riding clinchers, pinch flats were a common occurrence, even at higher inflation pressures. And latex inner tubes, the few times that I was foolish enough to buy them, were the worst. They wouldn't just puncture, they would rip apart. I guess you don't get on rough roads or off pavement. Either that or you don't weigh as much as the average rider. People also talk about handling, weight, rolling resistance, and other somewhat dubious matters, but fewer flats, more comfortable pressures, and the ability to keep going when flats do occur seem to be the practical reasons. This sounds much like the leg shaving excuse where riders claim they do it for crashing to prevent subsequent hair entrapment in their precious bodily fluids. Are you disputing that, too? There is little doubt that it is easier to deal with cleaning and bandaging a clean-shaven wound, than one that is matted with thick hair. Having smooth legs also facilitates massage. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shaving.html Running into these old wive's tales now and then is entertaining. "Matted with thick hair" do you shave your arms and chest too? Jobst Brandt |
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