Evaulating a bike

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:33:49 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Art Harris wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote:


Specifically, is an older (20+) years frameset dated? Does it work less well compared to a newer bike?


There are pros and cons to using an older frame. Not knowing the
specifics of this particular frame makes commenting difficult. Can you
post a photo?

Here are some photo links:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d/IMG_0004.jpg


Those are about useless. Cellphone mount on a motorcycle?

I wouldn't worry too much about weight. What matters is the combined
weight of the bike and rider (and the bike is a small fraction of the
total).

I'm baffled. All the noise I hear from bike riding folks fusses about
mass. People seem to pay brutal money for a carbon waterbottle cage over
a steel one to say, what, 20 g? When I go to an LBS, they go on about
how neat their 16 lb bikes are and that I can go even lower if I choose
to. It seems to be the ruling criterion for a bike and here you run
counter and say don't worry too much about it. I can't reconcile both
views.

Sure you can. One POV is the guy selling hardware to weight weenies and
techno-obsessives, the other is of someone who rides a bike a lot and enjoys it.

If you are even ten pounds overweight there's no point in fussing over the
bike's weight. In cycling terms you are almost surely at least ten pounds
overweight unless you're also a Kenyan marathon runner and didn't mention it.

It's possible that this frame has a somewhat longer wheelbase and more
tire clearance than modern bikes, and those are good things. I happen
to like the looks of lugged steel frames.

Modern bikes will have more gears, and brake/shift levers that allow
precise shifts without taking a hand off the bars. An old steel bike
can be retofitted with a moden drivetrain and shifters.

Is that really worth the bother? These shifters are on the 'down' tube
(word?) and seem to work ok.

My main ride is a not quite 20 year old steel frame bike. It's been modernized
to the extent of adding STI combined shift and brake levers and a stem and
handlebar setup to suit me.. It's a seven speed bike and I got a great deal on
the levers and it didn't require any other changes. Otherwise such updates
aren't usually cost effective.

Shifting is much, much, much handier, easier and faster with the new levers.
Other than the initial flush of newness I still tend to drop it into a gear and
leave it there.

If you like the frame, if it fits you well, and if the price is right,
buying it could be a smart move.

You should probably visit a LBS and see what's available new before
making a decision.

I have visited and not gained much insight which is why I posted here.
Let me expand a bit. I'm an expert in motorcycles. Today you go to a
motorcycle store and for a reasonable price ($10k) buy a motorcycle
which would be competititive in professional road races of 10 years ago.
There has been that much progress. The motocycles of today are amazing
compared to those of a decade ago.

I'm curious to know if similar progress has been made in bicycles. Do
the bikes of today stand way above those older tech bikes or are the
changes mostly fashion?

It's a little difficult to put it in such terms. The bicycle's engine has not
improved in that time. The brakes were already about as good as they needed to
be (for road bikes anyway). That leaves shifting and frames. The shifting has
improved a lot. More gears and a lot easier to get to 'em all. The frames can be
made lighter, but cannot be made more comfortable. A nice old steel frame rides
as nicely as anything built now of any material. Go for low weight if you like,
but you probably won't be faster unless you've already maxed out all your other
potentials.

Ron

RonSonic wrote:



Those are about useless. Cellphone mount on a motorcycle?

GPS. It's a dual purpose bike for road and dirt roads/trails.



Sure you can. One POV is the guy selling hardware to weight weenies and
techno-obsessives, the other is of someone who rides a bike a lot and enjoys it.

If you are even ten pounds overweight there's no point in fussing over the
bike's weight. In cycling terms you are almost surely at least ten pounds
overweight unless you're also a Kenyan marathon runner and didn't mention it.

I'm not 10 lbs overweight, but I'm not light either. After I stopped
running, I took up weightlifting which caused me to grow larger, but not
fatter. At 175 lbs, I'm very heavy for a bicycler, I suppose. The
fellows I've seen riding around town on fancy bikes are at least as
heavy as I am - mostly. I used to look like a Kenyan runner but will not
go there. I enjoy being able to open up my own jars too much to try.



My main ride is a not quite 20 year old steel frame bike. It's been modernized
to the extent of adding STI combined shift and brake levers and a stem and
handlebar setup to suit me.. It's a seven speed bike and I got a great deal on
the levers and it didn't require any other changes. Otherwise such updates
aren't usually cost effective.

Shifting is much, much, much handier, easier and faster with the new levers.
Other than the initial flush of newness I still tend to drop it into a gear and
leave it there.

I definitely do not want to put money into this bike and then give it
back to my buddy who won't care for my changes. So we'll both lose.
That's why I posted - I need to make a decison or two here. For example,
my buddy said the wheels stink so do I put $300 (used) to $600 wheels on
this bike? If so, I'm committed to riding it if you also add in altering
the shifters. I don't want to build a house on a poor foundation
(frameset).

I'm looking at putting, say, $500 in wheels, and what $300 in shifters /
other here so it's not like I'm choosing between spending new and
spending $0 for this bike. I'm going to spend one way or another. I'm
hoping to optimize my outlay by asking here.



It's a little difficult to put it in such terms. The bicycle's engine has not
improved in that time. The brakes were already about as good as they needed to
be (for road bikes anyway). That leaves shifting and frames. The shifting has
improved a lot. More gears and a lot easier to get to 'em all. The frames can be
made lighter, but cannot be made more comfortable. A nice old steel frame rides
as nicely as anything built now of any material. Go for low weight if you like,
but you probably won't be faster unless you've already maxed out all your other
potentials.

The lack of gears is troubling me some. I can't see a cheap way to
convert the current setup to a modern one even aside from the shifters.
There is one serious hill on one of my loops. I'm in my lowest gearset
and standing at about a 15 rpm cadence (so it seems) while others spin
by me. I think this bike was built for a very strong rider on the flats.
Even down hills I don't put this in very high gear - that's 30+ mph.
So I guess this bike is geared for someone who goes even faster. (yikes!)

My mtn bike is a CAAD frame of Al and I don't like the ride at all on
pavement. I am steering away from Al due to this. Do road Al bikes ride
like Al mtn ones? I can't imagine tolerating this sort of harshness for
100 miles or so.

-paul

wrote:


If you can ride 3-4 hours and enjoy the ride 100% then the bike is
probably about right for you. Probably would not hurt to buy it cheap
and ride it for a year or two. Old bikes are OK and work well.
Beginning riders usually find modern handlebar shifting and lots of low
gears add to the enjoyment.


That's a good point. I am functioning on this bike ok.


I ride with a 53-42 crankset on my racing style bike. Love the 42. I
do use bigger cogs in back for the occassional times I need lower gears
on that bike. Another road bike has a triple crankset so the front
rings are 52-42-30. More low gears than I need unless I am in the
mountains, but it does not hurt. The word for the rear gear set is
either freewheel or cassette. Most likely a freewheel for this bike.
Big cogs in back for road bikes are about 28 teeth usually. I suspect
the bike was designed to mimic the pro racing bikes of the times and
pro racing bikes don't have very low gears.

Without too much difficulty or money, you could replace the double
crankset and bottom bracket with a compact (110mm bolt circle diameter)
and that would give you 50-34 front chainrings. The 34 on front would
give you fairly low gears without changing anything else.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

I'm suggesting the compact double crankset instead of a triple
replacement because there are less parts to change. $100 total and you
have probably low enough gears. Watch for sales.

OK, so I'm looking at $500 for the wheels and now a total of $600 which
I doubt I can ever recover v buying something new. I think your idea of
the chainring sizes apporpriate. Based on my feel, I 'd like a 36 / 48
combo leaving the freewheel alone as you say.

I thought that for about $1000, I could kick some serious ass in the new
bike dept for a person of my abilities and station in the sport. Am I
dreaming?


Bike tools are fairly specialized for working on the headset, hubs,
bottom bracket, and freewheel/cassette. You can get by with cheap ones
and get by for maybe $50 total.

I don't know what those tools are that I need in the form of a list. I'd
happily spend $50 to be able to work peaceably on my bike, but not sure
what to get so I was looking at those tool set kits from places like
Performance or nashbar.

I will say that the bike has Dura Ace gear train, but it doesn't really
shift any better, or stop any better, than my mountain bike which has XT
and XTR components.


If the bike came with Dura Ace in the mid 1980s it may be a higher
quality frame than I thought. Shifting should be more convenient and
quicker on the mountain bike due to indexed shifting on the handlebars.
That is what modern road bikes have with Ergo and STI. It would be
cost prohibitive to put them on an older bike. Brakes have improved on
modern bikes. Dual pivot calipers on modern road bikes require less
force to brake. Your V brakes are likely easier to activate on your
mountain bikes than the old single pivot calipers on the borrowed road
bike.


Apparently the Dura Ace was added which is what my friend, the bike's
owner, was after. This bike is a combo of early 80's tech. Some bike
donated the components, another the frameset. Then someone stripped it
of some stuff sometimes replacing parts with low quality parts. When I
got it, it was missing cables and the seat was like from a $10 bike swap
bike. The handle bars are also very low quality, ditto the seatpost, etc.

I never have liked the brakes either in design or function. They just do
not work well. My daughter's cross bike, a Specialized, can do a
stoppie. I can hardly stop even with them adjusted properly, etc.

Now I'm in a quandry. You make great points, but also that I'm happily
riding for hours is a serious consideration. That came from replacing
then adjusting the seat. Oh, I also got those tight pants. No more chafe.

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:42:15 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:

I bought a book by Zinn on fixing
bikes and have been banging away on this bike some, but now seem to need
about $140 in tools such as cone wrenches to continue.

You can get a bike tool kit from Nashbar for a pittance:

http://tinyurl.com/azvtq

$40

Or get the individual tools you need, I got a Pedros headset spanner, a
Park cone wrench, and a basic chain tool for under $5usd each in my last
order.

If you're using XTR on your mtb--Dura Ace probably isn't going to feel any
better--but it's going to last a long time, it's quality stuff.

Replace your brake pads with something like a nice set of Koolstops will
give you a huge improvement in braking. If they're vintage calipers, the
Continentals are your better choice. Cheap too, about $8 for two pairs on
Ebay.

I've got a motorcycle too, and believe me, it's refreshing to work on
bicycles in comparison. So, so simple. You can overhaul all your bearings
and cables on a bike in a couple hours plus or minus beer breaks. Very
satisfying compared to spending those same hours diagnosing a carb issue.
LOL

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:09:29 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

RonSonic wrote:



Those are about useless. Cellphone mount on a motorcycle?

GPS. It's a dual purpose bike for road and dirt roads/trails.



Sure you can. One POV is the guy selling hardware to weight weenies and
techno-obsessives, the other is of someone who rides a bike a lot and enjoys it.

If you are even ten pounds overweight there's no point in fussing over the
bike's weight. In cycling terms you are almost surely at least ten pounds
overweight unless you're also a Kenyan marathon runner and didn't mention it.

I'm not 10 lbs overweight, but I'm not light either. After I stopped
running, I took up weightlifting which caused me to grow larger, but not
fatter. At 175 lbs, I'm very heavy for a bicycler, I suppose. The
fellows I've seen riding around town on fancy bikes are at least as
heavy as I am - mostly. I used to look like a Kenyan runner but will not
go there. I enjoy being able to open up my own jars too much to try.


Then you'll stay heavy by cycling standards and there's no reason to feel bad
about it. You can still crush them if they give you any crap.


My main ride is a not quite 20 year old steel frame bike. It's been modernized
to the extent of adding STI combined shift and brake levers and a stem and
handlebar setup to suit me.. It's a seven speed bike and I got a great deal on
the levers and it didn't require any other changes. Otherwise such updates
aren't usually cost effective.

Shifting is much, much, much handier, easier and faster with the new levers.
Other than the initial flush of newness I still tend to drop it into a gear and
leave it there.

I definitely do not want to put money into this bike and then give it
back to my buddy who won't care for my changes. So we'll both lose.
That's why I posted - I need to make a decison or two here. For example,
my buddy said the wheels stink so do I put $300 (used) to $600 wheels on
this bike? If so, I'm committed to riding it if you also add in altering
the shifters. I don't want to build a house on a poor foundation
(frameset).

Why on earth spend that much for a wheelset. You aren't racing and a decent $250
set of built up wheels will run forever and be only trivially heavier than the
higher priced ones.

I'm looking at putting, say, $500 in wheels, and what $300 in shifters /
other here so it's not like I'm choosing between spending new and
spending $0 for this bike. I'm going to spend one way or another. I'm
hoping to optimize my outlay by asking here.



It's a little difficult to put it in such terms. The bicycle's engine has not
improved in that time. The brakes were already about as good as they needed to
be (for road bikes anyway). That leaves shifting and frames. The shifting has
improved a lot. More gears and a lot easier to get to 'em all. The frames can be
made lighter, but cannot be made more comfortable. A nice old steel frame rides
as nicely as anything built now of any material. Go for low weight if you like,
but you probably won't be faster unless you've already maxed out all your other
potentials.

The lack of gears is troubling me some. I can't see a cheap way to
convert the current setup to a modern one even aside from the shifters.
There is one serious hill on one of my loops. I'm in my lowest gearset
and standing at about a 15 rpm cadence (so it seems) while others spin
by me. I think this bike was built for a very strong rider on the flats.
Even down hills I don't put this in very high gear - that's 30+ mph.
So I guess this bike is geared for someone who goes even faster. (yikes!)

Or for someone living in flatter terrain. I'm old, fat and slow and have no
trouble living with a 13-23 cogset, but I live on a sandbar, aka Florida.

We can get into specifics, just what are your wheels, how bad are they, is the
frame worth building up and so on. But ya know, I'm thinking maybe the best
thing at this point is to put on a cogset you can manage on the hills you ride.
Deal with the downtube shifters. Get used to the road bike vibe. Then with more
time, experience and exposure get a better feel for what you really need and
want in a bike.

The rear cassette or freewheel will cost you 25-35 bucks and be fair rent
whenever you give the bike back to your buddy or give you many good miles if you
keep. Nothing wrong with riding retro style, especially with a cool old italian
bike.

My mtn bike is a CAAD frame of Al and I don't like the ride at all on
pavement. I am steering away from Al due to this. Do road Al bikes ride
like Al mtn ones? I can't imagine tolerating this sort of harshness for
100 miles or so.

Pretty much - not quite as bad. Like I said, they don't make anything that rides
nicer than a good steel frame. Good titanium and graphite can ride about as well
I'm told. Cost a bunch too.

Ron

Dans le message de ,

OK, so I'm looking at $500 for the wheels and now a total of $600
which I doubt I can ever recover v buying something new. I think your
idea of the chainring sizes apporpriate. Based on my feel, I 'd like
a 36 / 48 combo leaving the freewheel alone as you say.

I thought that for about $1000, I could kick some serious ass in the
new bike dept for a person of my abilities and station in the sport.
Am I dreaming?

Exactly, you're dreaming. Not a healthy dream. Kind of a cross between a
geek, a golfer, and someone with a superman complex, in that reverie. Just
because you may be good at one sport doesn't give you a sure thing in
another one. But do what you can, develop, enjoy, RIDE.

And what's with a 500 dollar wheelset ? Really, this is the putter
syndrome, where that magic gimmick gets you first prize. A hundred for a
pair of solid wheels will be fine, thank you.

Now I'm in a quandry. You make great points, but also that I'm happily
riding for hours is a serious consideration. That came from replacing
then adjusting the seat. Oh, I also got those tight pants. No more
chafe.

Then, there's the recycling effect. If you spend to the moon, and don't
really continue, then you might as well not have spent a dime. So look
around carefully for a guy who has just done that trip, whose wonderbike is
going for a song, and avoid filling that role for someone after you.

Try hard to remember that there are plenty of bikes that will fit you, and
fit is the key to enduring enjoyment and development. You sound, now, to be
all too ready to be sold the magic ride, and while I don't want to dull your
enthusiasm, it will be good to add a measure of reality to your search.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Are you asking how to upgrade your friend's bike or how to decide what
(or whether) to buy new?

If it's an old bike, don't spend too much on an upgrade. I have an old
bike and spend carefully. You get the most bang for your buck by buying
tires! We often overlook tires. Get some supple smooth-tread tires and
inflate them to 100 psi.

If the bike doesn't have clipless pedals, get some of those.

If the bike fits you well enough for you to spend hours on it, it's
right for you. The rest is so much window dressing without much
functional difference, as long as it all works well.


--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:


If you can ride 3-4 hours and enjoy the ride 100% then the bike is
probably about right for you. Probably would not hurt to buy it cheap
and ride it for a year or two. Old bikes are OK and work well.
Beginning riders usually find modern handlebar shifting and lots of low
gears add to the enjoyment.


That's a good point. I am functioning on this bike ok.


I ride with a 53-42 crankset on my racing style bike. Love the 42. I
do use bigger cogs in back for the occassional times I need lower gears
on that bike. Another road bike has a triple crankset so the front
rings are 52-42-30. More low gears than I need unless I am in the
mountains, but it does not hurt. The word for the rear gear set is
either freewheel or cassette. Most likely a freewheel for this bike.
Big cogs in back for road bikes are about 28 teeth usually. I suspect
the bike was designed to mimic the pro racing bikes of the times and
pro racing bikes don't have very low gears.

Without too much difficulty or money, you could replace the double
crankset and bottom bracket with a compact (110mm bolt circle diameter)
and that would give you 50-34 front chainrings. The 34 on front would
give you fairly low gears without changing anything else.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

I'm suggesting the compact double crankset instead of a triple
replacement because there are less parts to change. $100 total and you
have probably low enough gears. Watch for sales.

OK, so I'm looking at $500 for the wheels and now a total of $600 which
I doubt I can ever recover v buying something new. I think your idea of
the chainring sizes apporpriate. Based on my feel, I 'd like a 36 / 48
combo leaving the freewheel alone as you say.

I thought that for about $1000, I could kick some serious ass in the new
bike dept for a person of my abilities and station in the sport. Am I
dreaming?


Bike tools are fairly specialized for working on the headset, hubs,
bottom bracket, and freewheel/cassette. You can get by with cheap ones
and get by for maybe $50 total.

I don't know what those tools are that I need in the form of a list. I'd
happily spend $50 to be able to work peaceably on my bike, but not sure
what to get so I was looking at those tool set kits from places like
Performance or nashbar.

I will say that the bike has Dura Ace gear train, but it doesn't really
shift any better, or stop any better, than my mountain bike which has XT
and XTR components.


If the bike came with Dura Ace in the mid 1980s it may be a higher
quality frame than I thought. Shifting should be more convenient and
quicker on the mountain bike due to indexed shifting on the handlebars.
That is what modern road bikes have with Ergo and STI. It would be
cost prohibitive to put them on an older bike. Brakes have improved on
modern bikes. Dual pivot calipers on modern road bikes require less
force to brake. Your V brakes are likely easier to activate on your
mountain bikes than the old single pivot calipers on the borrowed road
bike.


Apparently the Dura Ace was added which is what my friend, the bike's
owner, was after. This bike is a combo of early 80's tech. Some bike
donated the components, another the frameset. Then someone stripped it
of some stuff sometimes replacing parts with low quality parts. When I
got it, it was missing cables and the seat was like from a $10 bike swap
bike. The handle bars are also very low quality, ditto the seatpost, etc.

I never have liked the brakes either in design or function. They just do
not work well. My daughter's cross bike, a Specialized, can do a
stoppie. I can hardly stop even with them adjusted properly, etc.

Now I'm in a quandry. You make great points, but also that I'm happily
riding for hours is a serious consideration. That came from replacing
then adjusting the seat. Oh, I also got those tight pants. No more chafe.


I read your other posts. Seems like not having low enough gears is
really the problem with this bike. The wheels can be trued and will
likely stay true enough. Or not. Either way until they collapse on
you they will still roll. So don't worry about them.

For gearing you need to count the number of teeth on the rear
freewheel. And the number of cogs. This will tell you where you are
starting at. Nashbar sells 6 and 7 speed freewheels. 6 speed with a
big cog of 28 and 7 speed with a big cog of 32. I am pretty sure your
rear derailleur will clear the 28 cog. Not sure if it would clear the
32 cog. So for $20 get the 6 speed freewheel and put it on. You have
down tube friction shifters I think. So they will shift the 6 speed
freewheel just fine. If they are index then ... Going to the Nashbar
compact crankset and new bottom bracket to fit it will cost around
$105. But you will have much lower gears than just changing the rear
cogset. Or do both for $125.

Paul Cassel wrote:
wrote:


If you can ride 3-4 hours and enjoy the ride 100% then the bike is
probably about right for you. Probably would not hurt to buy it cheap
and ride it for a year or two. Old bikes are OK and work well.
Beginning riders usually find modern handlebar shifting and lots of low
gears add to the enjoyment.


That's a good point. I am functioning on this bike ok.

I'd say keep riding it.



I ride with a 53-42 crankset on my racing style bike. Love the 42. I
do use bigger cogs in back for the occassional times I need lower gears
on that bike. Another road bike has a triple crankset so the front
rings are 52-42-30. More low gears than I need unless I am in the
mountains, but it does not hurt. The word for the rear gear set is
either freewheel or cassette. Most likely a freewheel for this bike.
Big cogs in back for road bikes are about 28 teeth usually. I suspect
the bike was designed to mimic the pro racing bikes of the times and
pro racing bikes don't have very low gears.

Without too much difficulty or money, you could replace the double
crankset and bottom bracket with a compact (110mm bolt circle diameter)
and that would give you 50-34 front chainrings. The 34 on front would
give you fairly low gears without changing anything else.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

I'm suggesting the compact double crankset instead of a triple
replacement because there are less parts to change. $100 total and you
have probably low enough gears. Watch for sales.

OK, so I'm looking at $500 for the wheels and now a total of $600 which
I doubt I can ever recover v buying something new. I think your idea of
the chainring sizes apporpriate. Based on my feel, I 'd like a 36 / 48
combo leaving the freewheel alone as you say.

Where did $500 for the wheels come from? I kind of thought the
borrowed biek would come to you sort of complete except for a few
missing parts. If you have to buy a new set of wheels, then I'm not
sure its that great of a deal. Cheap wheelsets that will function well
enough can be had mail order from Nashbar or other mail order places.
Maybe a local shop has some wheels taken off another bike they can sell
cheap. Cheap being the key word here. Assuming the borrowed bike is a
freewheel bike, you should be able to find these wheelsets really
cheap. At the very most a new set of freewheel type wheels should cost
$100. Or less.

The crankset I mentioned comes with 50-34 tooth rings on it. It costs
more money to replace chainrings. Money that could be used to buy a
new bike if you start replacing parts on replacement parts before you
even use them. The 50 will work for most riding around. The 34 will
work very well for any hills.



I thought that for about $1000, I could kick some serious ass in the new
bike dept for a person of my abilities and station in the sport. Am I
dreaming?


You can get a very nice road bicycle for $1000. Look for sales at bike
shops or mail order. Its best to know what size you need if ordering
mail order. Probably crucial to know your correct size. That you get
from riding and figuring it out.

http://www.gvhbikes.com/welcome.html I had dealings with the original
Gary V Hobbs. Guessing the new owner is carrying on the good customer
service.


Bike tools are fairly specialized for working on the headset, hubs,
bottom bracket, and freewheel/cassette. You can get by with cheap ones
and get by for maybe $50 total.

I don't know what those tools are that I need in the form of a list. I'd
happily spend $50 to be able to work peaceably on my bike, but not sure
what to get so I was looking at those tool set kits from places like
Performance or nashbar.

Cone wrenches to fit the hubs. Use a vernier caliper to figure out the
size of the inner ones. 13/14 and 15/16 and 17 should cover most
things. Traditional crank puller for square taper cranksets. Assuming
that is what is on the bike now. If you get a new crank/bottom bracket
then you will have to get a new crank puller for the new crank (ISIS or
Octalink specific). Bottom bracket hook tool for the locking ring.
Assuming that is the kind of bottom bracket you have now. New style
for a new bottom bracket. Pin spanner to adjust the old bottom
bracket. Headset wrench 32 mm. Freewheel removal tool. Assume
Suntour style with 4 notches. Chain whip. Crescent wrench and metric
wrenches and metric Allen wrenches are also needed but I assume you
have these already.



I will say that the bike has Dura Ace gear train, but it doesn't really
shift any better, or stop any better, than my mountain bike which has XT
and XTR components.


If the bike came with Dura Ace in the mid 1980s it may be a higher
quality frame than I thought. Shifting should be more convenient and
quicker on the mountain bike due to indexed shifting on the handlebars.
That is what modern road bikes have with Ergo and STI. It would be
cost prohibitive to put them on an older bike. Brakes have improved on
modern bikes. Dual pivot calipers on modern road bikes require less
force to brake. Your V brakes are likely easier to activate on your
mountain bikes than the old single pivot calipers on the borrowed road
bike.


Apparently the Dura Ace was added which is what my friend, the bike's
owner, was after. This bike is a combo of early 80's tech. Some bike
donated the components, another the frameset. Then someone stripped it
of some stuff sometimes replacing parts with low quality parts. When I
got it, it was missing cables and the seat was like from a $10 bike swap
bike. The handle bars are also very low quality, ditto the seatpost, etc.

I never have liked the brakes either in design or function. They just do
not work well. My daughter's cross bike, a Specialized, can do a
stoppie. I can hardly stop even with them adjusted properly, etc.

Cheap dual pivot brakes can be head from Nashbar that will work fine.
Lots of power and easy to squeeze. Cheap too.



Now I'm in a quandry. You make great points, but also that I'm happily
riding for hours is a serious consideration. That came from replacing
then adjusting the seat. Oh, I also got those tight pants. No more chafe.

If you knew what you were doing you could probably replace a few parts
and get by cheap. But if you have to replace quite a few parts the
owner takes for himself and then pay for what is left and then replace
a few more to make it satisfactory for you to ride, .... You might be
close to half or more of the cost of a new bike.

When was a growing kid looking at steel bikes in the 1980's, the main
criterion were :

a. Weight. A 2 lbs saving in frame weight improved the ride tremendously.
b. Shifting. There were a lot of really bad derailleurs in the 1970's.
c. Wheels. Very light (tubular) tires/wheels are desirable if you
want good acceleration and are willing to put up with the hassle
factor (pumping frequently, getting 1 flat tire on a ride)
associated with tubulars.

Today, when you get below 17 lbs you are going "stupid light" and
putting yourself in danger and purchasing a "fast food" bicycle that
will last about as long as that lunch you bought at McDonalds. most
of today's derailleurs work better than the best 1975 derailleur,
which was a Suntour VGT. Even the worst 2005 derailleur is about as
good as that VGT.

When I last bought a bike in 2000, I looked mainly at these issues:

a. Fit. The optimal bike for me is between 23.5" and 24.5" frame
size. Anything bigger is uncomfortable to stop. Anything smaller
feels "leaden" to me - small steel frames do not have a springy feel
that I like in larger 531/columbus frames. At 24" my bike was a
perfect fit for me.

c. Materials. I bought a carbon frame but I rode about 6 bikes
before I decided on the Carbon Trek 2300. The carbon bike had by far
the best road feel - damped & astonishingly quiet. at 18 lbs and a
proven design offered by TREK from 1990-1998 it was likely to be a
robust bicycle. I was wrong about this, however, as my seat lug
cracked after just 2000 miles rendering the frameset useless.

d. Looks and Theft-Prevention. At $1700 I wanted a beautiful bike
that didn't have "STEAL ME" written all over it. I opted for 1998
TREK 3-tubes carbon bike - not monocoque - conventional diamond frame
- which could be mistaken for a normal bike with black main tubes
until you were within 3' of the bike. The paint job was not Colnago
flashy but it was nice. Non-bikers would probably not realize that my
bike had 3 main tubes of carbon.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA