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Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 21st 05, 12:29 AM
41
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??


Bill Sornson wrote:
RonSonic wrote:
On 20 Aug 2005 05:38:34 -0700, "41" wrote:


jim beam wrote:

how do you get a 20-something mm retainer in through a 18mm hole?
you'd have to remove the dust c over, something much easier said
than done.

struggling to remove dust cover... welded and krazy glued in place...
the nano-scale bonding! The interstitials and the dislocation
density! The very electrons are intermingling... must use
Superpowers... must concentrate: focus all boorishness, rudeness,
adolescent immaturity, acting out, ego, into a single narrow beam to
jimmy it out... concentrate, focus! Use all Superpowers in unison,
to form Jerk Beam! May be ab le to lift it out... No! Unable to
overcome the facts!

Curses. Foiled again. By a dustcap.p


Thank you. That was so much more graceful, elegant and funny than the
post I was about to write.


I just figured he was channeling Gene Daniels.


He puts the license in poetic. In so doing he inspires us all. But more
specifically, I was channeling Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons.d

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  #22  
Old August 21st 05, 12:37 AM
41
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??


jim beam wrote:
41 wrote:
jim beam wrote:


how do you get a 20-something mm retainer in through a 18mm hole? you'd
have to remove the dust cover, something much easier said than done.



struggling to remove dust cover... welded and krazy glued in place...
the nano-scale bonding! The interstitials and the dislocation density!
The very electrons are intermingling... must use Superpowers... must
concentrate: focus all boorishness, rudeness, adolescent immaturi ty,
acting out, ego, into a single narrow beam to jimmy it out...
concentrate, focus! Use all Superpowers in unison, to form Jerk Beam!
May be able to lift it out... No! Unable to overcome the facts!

Curses. Foiled again. By a dustcap.p


dust caps are thin & weak. they are not designed for removal. attempts
to do so damage or destroy them. as you'd know if you'd ever bothered
to try.


I'm enjoying this too much and let's face it, you deserve everything
you are going to get over it.

So tell me, if they are not designed for removal, how is it that the
forged races of Campagnolo Record and original Shimano Dura Ace were
available as spare parts? They didn't come as a set with replacement
dust caps, by the way.

  #23  
Old August 21st 05, 04:04 AM
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??


jim beam wrote:

dust caps are thin & weak. they are not designed for removal. attempts
to do so damage or destroy them. as you'd know if you'd ever bothered
to try.


:-) Perhaps they are not designed for removal by ham-fisted mechanics?


In my experience, removing and replacing them is easy with minimal
care. I've done it many times, and I've never ruined one.

Sounds like a competence issue to me!


Jim, every time you jump in and rail at Jobst, you come off looking
like a fool. Why persist?

- Frank Krygowski

  #24  
Old August 21st 05, 05:15 AM
jim beam
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??

41 wrote:
jim beam wrote:

41 wrote:

jim beam wrote:



how do you get a 20-something mm retainer in through a 18mm hole? you'd
have to remove the dust cover, something much easier said than done.


struggling to remove dust cover... welded and krazy glued in place...
the nano-scale bonding! The interstitials and the dislocation density!
The very electrons are intermingling... must use Superpowers... must
concentrate: focus all boorishness, rudeness, adolescent immaturi ty,
acting out, ego, into a single narrow beam to jimmy it out...
concentrate, focus! Use all Superpowers in unison, to form Jerk Beam!
May be able to lift it out... No! Unable to overcome the facts!

Curses. Foiled again. By a dustcap.p


dust caps are thin & weak. they are not designed for removal. attempts
to do so damage or destroy them. as you'd know if you'd ever bothered
to try.



I'm enjoying this too much and let's face it, you deserve everything
you are going to get over it.

So tell me, if they are not designed for removal, how is it that the
forged races of Campagnolo Record and original Shimano Dura Ace were
available as spare parts? They didn't come as a set with replacement
dust caps, by the way.


can you use the race to press out a campy dust cap? sure you can!!!
it's a substantially non-trivial exercise, but hey, you can use a
shotgun to open a door too - and it makes just about as much sense. not
that this would worry your pursuit of pedantry, but cup races are only
available for campy these days. and they also use a whole different
seal system, but let's not let mere fact get in the way of a massive
straw clutching exercise. or that you seem to have lost sight of the
fact that this still doesn't allow you to get a bearing cage in there.

so what about shimano? techically, yes we can remove the dust caps here
too. all we do is chemically dissolve the hub body away from the race
and dust cap, extract from solution, re-cast, re-forge and re-machine.
then we can re-press the race and dust cap after, whoops, again
discovering that we still can't get a cage in there. simple really. idiot.




  #26  
Old August 21st 05, 05:40 AM
41
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??


RonSonic wrote:
On 20 Aug 2005 05:38:34 -0700, "41" wrote:


jim beam wrote:

how do you get a 20-something mm retainer in through a 18mm hole? you'd
have to remove the dust cover, something much easier sa id than done.


struggling to remove dust cover... welded and krazy glued in place...
the nano-scale bonding! The interstitials and the dislocation density!
The very electrons are intermingling... must use Superpowers... must
concentrate: fo cus all boorishness, rudeness, adolescent immaturity,
acting out, ego, into a single narrow beam to jimmy it out...
concentrate, focus! Use all Superpowers in unison, to form Jerk Beam!
May be able to lift it out... No! Unable to overcome the fac ts!

Curses. Foiled again. By a dustcap.p


Thank you. That was so much more graceful, elegant and funny than the post I was
about to write.


You are too kind. Every time, it's like shooting fish in a barrel! He
almost writes it for me.6

  #27  
Old August 21st 05, 07:02 AM
41
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??


jim beam wrote:
41 wrote:
jim beam wrote:

41 wrote:

jim beam wrote:



how do you get a 20-something mm retainer in through a 18mm hole? you'd
have to remove the dust cover, something much easier said than done.


struggling to remove dust cover... welded and krazy glued in place...
the nano-scale bonding! The interstitials and the dislocation density!
The very electrons are intermingling... must use Superpowers... must
co ncentrate: focus all boorishness, rudeness, adolescent immaturi ty,
acting out, ego, into a single narrow beam to jimmy it out...
concentrate, focus! Use all Superpowers in unison, to form Jerk Beam!
May be able to lift it out... No! Unable to overcome the facts!

Curses. Foiled again. By a dustcap.p


dust caps are thin & weak. they are not designed for removal. attempts
to do so damage or destroy them. as you'd know if you'd ever bothered
to try.



I'm enjoying this too much and let's face it, you deserve everything
you are going to get over it.

So tell me, if they are not designed for removal, how is it that the
forged races of Campagnolo Record and original Shimano Dura Ace were
available as spare parts? They didn't come as a set with replacement
dust caps, by the way.


can you use the race to press out a campy dust cap? sure you can!!!


Either you haven't gotten the point or you're just spouting to avoid
the issue, as usual.

it's a substantially non-trivial exercise, but hey, you can use a
s hotgun to open a door too - and it makes just about as much sense. not
that this would worry your pursuit of pedantry, but cup races are only
available for campy these days. and they also use a whole different
seal system, but let's not let mere fact get in the way of a massive
straw clutching exercise. or that you seem to have lost sight of the
fact that this still doesn't allow you to get a bearing cage in there.


You seem to have lost sight of the fact that we're all laughing at your
inability to remove a simple dustcap.

http://www.bikepro.com/products/hubs/hubs_campagnolo.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-128742

In addition to the methods mentioned in these there are others that
work perfectly well.

Dust cap robustness varies greatly from hub to hub, with many or most
requiring no precautions. The one that people talk about as the most
difficult is for the Shimano right side freehubs.

so what about shimano? techically, yes we can remove the dust caps here
too. all we do is chemically dissolve the hub body away from the race
and dust cap, extract from solution, re-cast, re-forge and re-machine.


Nevertheless others seem to be able to succeed with this where you fail

http://tinyurl.com/6rwzl
http://tinyurl.com/8maek
http://tinyurl.com/aem6m

and if the job is botched anyway, there is the Morningstar replacement
dust cap mentioned in one of these, or that or another brand available
at Loose Screws, which are easily removed and reinserted.

  #28  
Old August 21st 05, 07:05 PM
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??

Trying to keep on topic...

Bought some marine grease and repacked the hubs and noise previously
heard when spinning the wheel in my hands is gone completely at this
point. When adjusting the cones with the wheel out of the frame there
was an ever so slight amount slop in the bearings which went away
completely with the wheel clamped in the frame.

As a side note, the noise was non-rhythmic and is worse when riding
over washboard type road surfaces. At this point I'm wondering if
maybe a couple of balls are on the low side of the tolerance range and
when coupled with the light grease I've been using, the ball slop is
causing the issue.

I'm going to take the bike for a ride today and see how every thing
works out. Thanks for all the suggestions, to those that stayed on
topic and offered advice

Ed

  #29  
Old August 21st 05, 07:26 PM
jim beam
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??

41 wrote:
jim beam wrote:

41 wrote:

jim beam wrote:


41 wrote:


jim beam wrote:




how do you get a 20-something mm retainer in through a 18mm hole? you'd
have to remove the dust cover, something much easier said than done.


struggling to remove dust cover... welded and krazy glued in place...
the nano-scale bonding! The interstitials and the dislocation density!
The very electrons are intermingling... must use Superpowers... must
co ncentrate: focus all boorishness, rudeness, adolescent immaturi ty,
acting out, ego, into a single narrow beam to jimmy it out...
concentrate, focus! Use all Superpowers in unison, to form Jerk Beam!
May be able to lift it out... No! Unable to overcome the facts!

Curses. Foiled again. By a dustcap.p


dust caps are thin & weak. they are not designed for removal. attempts
to do so damage or destroy them. as you'd know if you'd ever bothered
to try.


I'm enjoying this too much and let's face it, you deserve everything
you are going to get over it.

So tell me, if they are not designed for removal, how is it that the
forged races of Campagnolo Record and original Shimano Dura Ace were
available as spare parts? They didn't come as a set with replacement
dust caps, by the way.


can you use the race to press out a campy dust cap? sure you can!!!



Either you haven't gotten the point or you're just spouting to avoid
the issue, as usual.


it's a substantially non-trivial exercise, but hey, you can use a
s hotgun to open a door too - and it makes just about as much sense. not
that this would worry your pursuit of pedantry, but cup races are only
available for campy these days. and they also use a whole different
seal system, but let's not let mere fact get in the way of a massive
straw clutching exercise. or that you seem to have lost sight of the
fact that this still doesn't allow you to get a bearing cage in there.



You seem to have lost sight of the fact that we're all laughing at your
inability to remove a simple dustcap.

http://www.bikepro.com/products/hubs/hubs_campagnolo.html
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-128742

In addition to the methods mentioned in these there are others that
work perfectly well.

Dust cap robustness varies greatly from hub to hub, with many or most
requiring no precautions. The one that people talk about as the most
difficult is for the Shimano right side freehubs.


so what about shimano? techically, yes we can remove the dust caps here
too. all we do is chemically dissolve the hub body away from the race
and dust cap, extract from solution, re-cast, re-forge and re-machine.



Nevertheless others seem to be able to succeed with this where you fail

http://tinyurl.com/6rwzl
http://tinyurl.com/8maek
http://tinyurl.com/aem6m

and if the job is botched anyway, there is the Morningstar replacement
dust cap mentioned in one of these, or that or another brand available
at Loose Screws, which are easily removed and reinserted.


er, even that pathetic straw clutching exercise supports what i've been
saying. the fact that the [shimano] dust cap gets damaged on removal
/requires/ an aftermarket replacement. as you'd know if you'd ever tried.

shooting your mouth on something you've never done as though you're an
expert? what an idiot.


  #30  
Old August 21st 05, 07:30 PM
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Default Tic/Tinkle Noise From Loose Ball Hubs??

Ed Ness writes:

Bought some marine grease and repacked the hubs and noise previously
heard when spinning the wheel in my hands is gone completely at this
point. When adjusting the cones with the wheel out of the frame
there was an ever so slight amount slop in the bearings which went
away completely with the wheel clamped in the frame.


That sounds OK for proper bearing adjustment.

As a side note, the noise was non-rhythmic and is worse when riding
over washboard type road surfaces. At this point I'm wondering if
maybe a couple of balls are on the low side of the tolerance range
and when coupled with the light grease I've been using, the ball
slop is causing the issue.


Even if there were damaged bearing balls in the set, you would not
hear them, especially while riding on rough roads. However, for all
practical purposes, there are no undersized balls, the manufacture of
these being so routine to tolerances you cannot measure with a common
micrometer. Unfortunately, the concept gets credence and is kept
alive by being mentioned in bearing discussions.

I'm going to take the bike for a ride today and see how every thing
works out.


As a side note: It was once popular to adjust wheel bearings to the
point of perceived minimum drag on track bicycles by removing one ball
while setting clearance to allow balls to fall through the ball gap
after passing the load bearing zone to make a regular faint ticking
sound. To make sure this was audible, bearings were lubricated with
light viscosity sewing machine oil. Of course this was only audible
when a rider passed slowly on a parade lap or the like. Nevertheless,
it was a badge of superiority to have such wheels.

None of that made any sense and was just so much one-upmanship.

Jobst Brandt
 




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