Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

"y_p_w" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:

Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.

The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment.

http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp

The zoo can say anything it wants. The research and anecdotal evidence
doesn't support the theory, though.

However - there's been
enough information that there have been occasional attacks when
someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs.

When?

In article . com,
y_p_w wrote:

Even Alaska Fish & Game say something about the possibility of a black
bear portecting cubs.

http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/index...=bears.bearfax

"If Attacked ? If a bear actually makes contact, you have two choices:
play dead or fight back. The best choice depends on whether the bear
is reacting defensively or is seeking food. Play dead if you are
attacked by a grizzly bear you have surprised, encountered on a
carcass, or any female bear that seems to be protecting cubs."

You seem to "Confuse" Black Bears with Brown Bears here. The ADF&G
site you post is SPECIFICALLY talking about Brown Bears, and Female
Brown Bears with Cubs. This is a decidedly different senerio than
Black Bears and Female Black Bears with Cubs. Apple and Oranges,
Sir, Apples and Oranges........

Bruce in alaska who lives with both, as neighbors.......
--
add a 2 before @

On Sep 26, 10:50 am, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message

ups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:



Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.
The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment.
http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp

The zoo can say anything it wants. The research and anecdotal evidence
doesn't support the theory, though.

However - there's been
enough information that there have been occasional attacks when
someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs.

When?

I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but
it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes.
Zero? No.

Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14

"Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable-
of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that
only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling
of 300 bears."

Bear attack on a couple of bow hunters in Idaho.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West....ap/index.html

"POCATELLO, Idaho (AP) -- A man armed with a bow shot and killed a
mother black bear that had attacked his son while she was protecting
her cubs.

Nolan Koller heard his son, Jason Koller, 29, yell for help while the
pair were elk hunting Saturday."

Pennsylvania Fish & Wildlife:

"Bears are mainly nocturnal, but they sometimes feed and travel by
day. Alert and wary, they tend to avoid open areas. Individuals are
solitary. While most bears will run from a human, a female with cubs
should be respected and on rare occasions might actually attack if she
feels her young are in danger."

Colorado Division of Wildlife:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Wildlife...earCountry.htm

"In contrast to grizzly bears, female black bears do not normally
defend their cubs aggressively; but send them up trees. However, use
extra caution if you encounter a female black bear with cubs. Move
away from the cub; be on the lookout for other cubs."

y_p_w wrote:

I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but
it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes.
Zero? No.

Probably zero.

Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14

"Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable-
of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that
only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling
of 300 bears."

Interesting, but it does *not* support your claims that
black bears will attack to protect cubs.

Bear attack on a couple of bow hunters in Idaho.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West....ap/index.html

"POCATELLO, Idaho (AP) -- A man armed with a bow shot and killed a
mother black bear that had attacked his son while she was protecting
her cubs.

Nolan Koller heard his son, Jason Koller, 29, yell for help while the
pair were elk hunting Saturday."

A lot of evidence there... all of it suggesting that
humans will attack bears to protect their offspring, and
none of it indicating the bear was protecting cubs.

Pennsylvania Fish & Wildlife:

"Bears are mainly nocturnal, but they sometimes feed and travel by
day. Alert and wary, they tend to avoid open areas. Individuals are
solitary. While most bears will run from a human, a female with cubs
should be respected and on rare occasions might actually attack if she
feels her young are in danger."

Whatever works to keep the tourons from getting into
trouble. But the *facts* are that the Pennsylvania Fish
& Wildlife have no evidence at all to support that
statement.

Colorado Division of Wildlife:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Wildlife...earCountry.htm

"In contrast to grizzly bears, female black bears do not normally
defend their cubs aggressively; but send them up trees. However, use
extra caution if you encounter a female black bear with cubs. Move
away from the cub; be on the lookout for other cubs."

So they say it doesn't happen... and to you than means
it might happen. Interesting logic, but false.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On Sep 26, 2:11 pm, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
y_p_w wrote:

I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but
it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes.
Zero? No.

Probably zero.

Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14

"Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable-
of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that
only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling
of 300 bears."

Interesting, but it does *not* support your claims that
black bears will attack to protect cubs.

I never said they would or even that it's common. That would be
Vandeman. My only contention is that it isn't **impossible** for a
black bear sow to attack a person if it believes it's protecting its
cubs and I've heard of enough incidents to say that however
improbable, it is possible.

If I thought that a black bear sow with cubs stood a reasonable
probability of attacking me if I got near its cubs, I'd have marks
from the one I came across last June.

I guess I could bring up several instances or recommendations by
wildlife authorities, and they would all be shot down as not being
conclusive or possibly being clueless because they don't conform to
your assertions. What standard of proof do you need? Maybe some sort
of brain scan on a semi-conscious bear pulling out its thoughts before
being put down? Or maybe a global bear monitoring system that tracks
to location of sows and their cubs? A lot of these incidents I cited
include wildlife biologists saying that a sow protecting cubs was at
least a contributory (if not sole) reason for an attack. You're
mentioning absolutes, and I don't think there are any when talking
about animal behavior.

Here's another one:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew..._attack_061015

A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after
a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near
midnight.

Jan Lanz, 57, heard her dog barking and went outside to investigate.
When she saw her dog barking at a bear going through her garbage, she
picked up a garbage can.

"I whipped the can as hard as I could and hit the bear in the head,"
Lanz told CTV Vancouver in an interview from her bed Sunday morning.

The bear took off, and Lanz thought the incident was over.

What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the
trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and
returned to protect her cubs

"I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the
bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't
believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the
head."

--snip--

The bear and her cubs will not be hunted down or destroyed, police
said.

"She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is
fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and
yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid.

"I can just imagine that mama bear was a little concerned and took a
bite of the victim," he said.

"y_p_w" wrote in message
s.com...
On Sep 26, 10:50 am, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message

ups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:22 pm, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:



Again, there are zero known cases of bears attacking humans in order to
protect cubs. Just because there were cubs present doesn't mean that's
why
the mother bear attacked. So no, the cases listed are not known cases
of a
mother bear protecting her cubs.
The Jacksonville Zoo doesn't agree with your assessment.
http://www.jaxzoo.org/animals/biofac...nBlackBear.asp

The zoo can say anything it wants. The research and anecdotal evidence
doesn't support the theory, though.

However - there's been
enough information that there have been occasional attacks when
someone has gotten between a black bear sow and cubs.

When?

I said that more than likely a black bear sow will do nothing, but
it's not as if the chances are zero. Excruciatingly rare? Yes.
Zero? No.

Massachusetts Fish & Wildlife:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_b...aqs.htm#prob14

"Black bear sows are extraordinarily tolerant-although uncomfortable-
of people who approach their cubs. A Michigan biologist reported that
only 4 sows chased away researchers during live-trapping and handling
of 300 bears."

At issue is whether there are any known cases of mother black bears
attacking humans in order to defend their cubs. Chasing researchers doesn't
equal attacking researchers.


Bear attack on a couple of bow hunters in Idaho.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West....ap/index.html

"POCATELLO, Idaho (AP) -- A man armed with a bow shot and killed a
mother black bear that had attacked his son while she was protecting
her cubs.

Again, mere speculation, mostly based on the myth. There is NOTHING in the
story to support the claim.


Pennsylvania Fish & Wildlife:

"Bears are mainly nocturnal, but they sometimes feed and travel by
day. Alert and wary, they tend to avoid open areas. Individuals are
solitary. While most bears will run from a human, a female with cubs
should be respected and on rare occasions might actually attack if she
feels her young are in danger."

Again, speculation.

For crying out loud, there was a long story in my local paper from an
outdoorsman who discussed preparing for black bear hunting season, which is
in full swing. Here's a guy who presents himself as knowledgeable all things
hunting. And yet he stresses in his column that regardless of whether you're
out in teh woods to hunt bears or to watch and photograph them you should
carry a gun with you just in case.

That's hilarious.

The problem is, the "experts" want to cover their butts. Of course there's
always a chance a black bear will attack, just like there's always a chance
the stranger on the stree is going to punch you in the face or steal your
wallet. So what better way to protect yourself from a frivolous lawsuit than
to pander to the lowest common denominator, which is that all bears can be
dangerous.

Colorado Division of Wildlife:

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Wildlife...earCountry.htm

"In contrast to grizzly bears, female black bears do not normally
defend their cubs aggressively; but send them up trees. However, use
extra caution if you encounter a female black bear with cubs. Move
away from the cub; be on the lookout for other cubs."

Once again, nothing that shows there have ever been any known cases of a
mother black bear attacking in order to protect her cubs.

"y_p_w" wrote in message
oups.com...
What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the
trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and
returned to protect her cubs

"I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the
bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't
believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the
head."

Uh, if you hit me in the head with a metal object, I might regroup myself
and come back to retaliate.


"She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is
fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and
yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid.

And we know that the police are always right about everything, too, don't
we? Just like a local police chief here a few years ago who said on the news
during Christmas season that suicides increase during the holidays. (Hint:
That's another myth.)

On Sep 27, 12:29 am, "Ryan Robbins" wrote:
"y_p_w" wrote in message

oups.com...

What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the
trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and
returned to protect her cubs

"I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the
bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't
believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the
head."

Uh, if you hit me in the head with a metal object, I might regroup myself
and come back to retaliate.

You are human. However - my understanding of black bears is that they
typically avoid conflict and take getting hit in head as a sign that
they should leave to avoid getting hit again. Again - there are
exceptions, and this seemed to be one.

I think we've gotten to the point where you insist it's impossible,
but I'm saying that however improbable it is possible. I can come up
with the occasional incident or report and I can tell you're going to
insist that the person is either unqualified or that the analysis was
incorrect.

http://hgic.clemson.edu/pdf/pcwdblack_bears.pdf

"Scott E. Hygnstrom
Extension Wildlife Damage Specialist
Department of Forestry, Fisheries
and Wildlife
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68583-0819

Black bears are powerful animals that
have few natural enemies. Despite
their strength and dominant position,
they are remarkably tolerant of
humans. Interactions between people
and black bears are usually benign.
When surprised or protecting cubs, a
black bear will threaten the intruder by
laying back its ears, uttering a series of
huffs, chopping its jaws, and stamping
its feet. This may be followed by a
charge, but in most instances it is only
a bluff, as the bear will advance only a
few yards (m) before stopping. There
are very few cases where a black bear
has charged and attacked a human."

Again - rare but not unheard of.

In article .com,
y_p_w wrote:

Here's another one:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...r_attack_06101
5

A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after
a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near
midnight.

Jan Lanz, 57, heard her dog barking and went outside to investigate.
When she saw her dog barking at a bear going through her garbage, she
picked up a garbage can.

"I whipped the can as hard as I could and hit the bear in the head,"
Lanz told CTV Vancouver in an interview from her bed Sunday morning.

The bear took off, and Lanz thought the incident was over.

What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the
trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and
returned to protect her cubs

"I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the
bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't
believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the
head."

--snip--

The bear and her cubs will not be hunted down or destroyed, police
said.

"She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is
fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and
yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid.

"I can just imagine that mama bear was a little concerned and took a
bite of the victim," he said.


Now wait just a minute here...... Just because there were cubs in a
tree, it is "ASSUMED" by the writer that the Female Black Bear "Returned"
to protect the cubs in the tree, by the Writer of the story, or the
individual who told the Writer of the story, the "Facts" of this
incident.
Unless the individual who stated the "Facts" is Bear Clarvoient, he
can NOT come the any Specific Conclusion, on just why the Female
Black Bear returned to the site. It could be just as easily "ASSUMED"
that the Female Black Bear returned to the scene, to feed at the Garbage
Can, AGAIN. Then finding the woman there, decided to munch her FIRST,
and then return to the Garbage. Black Bears NEVER leave Food. They
may run off a few yards if startled, or scared, but they will wait a bit
and return, once the Direct Threat has abated. The only real way to
cause the Bear to Move On, is to REMOVE the Food, PERIOD. Picking up
the Garbage doesn't remove the Food, it just moves it a bit, and to the
Bear, it doesn't change the Scent of Food, ANY, which is a Black Bears
Primary means of finding Food.

Black Bear cubs are perfectly protected when up a tree, 90% of the
prediters of Black Bear Cubs, don't climb trees to eat Cubs. There
is no real reason that the Female Black Bear would worry about cubs
while they are up a tree. Even if she decided to Move off the Food,
not likely, the cubs would follow her scent and catch up to her, once
the Threat of the Human presence abated.

This whole senerio is riddled with Human Interpritation of Black Bear
Behaviour, in Human Terms, and not from Black Bears viewpoint.

Bruce in alaska
--
add path before @

On Sep 27, 11:20 am, Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article .com,



y_p_w wrote:
Here's another one:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...61015/bear_att...
5

A Port Moody, B.C. woman was nursing deep bite wounds on Sunday after
a run-in with a black bear on her front lawn on Saturday near
midnight.

Jan Lanz, 57, heard her dog barking and went outside to investigate.
When she saw her dog barking at a bear going through her garbage, she
picked up a garbage can.

"I whipped the can as hard as I could and hit the bear in the head,"
Lanz told CTV Vancouver in an interview from her bed Sunday morning.

The bear took off, and Lanz thought the incident was over.

What Lanz didn't know was that there were two bear cubs hiding in the
trees of her yard. The bear hadn't left. She had circled around and
returned to protect her cubs

"I heard a sound behind me, I turned around, and all of a sudden the
bear grabbed my (left) thigh in her mouth," said Lanz. "I couldn't
believe what was happening -- I reacted and smacked the bear on the
head."

--snip--

The bear and her cubs will not be hunted down or destroyed, police
said.

"She got in between the mother bear and the two cubs, the dog is
fighting with the two bears, and there's a lot of screaming and
yelling and commotion," explained Port Moody Const. Phil Reid.

"I can just imagine that mama bear was a little concerned and took a
bite of the victim," he said.

Now wait just a minute here...... Just because there were cubs in a
tree, it is "ASSUMED" by the writer that the Female Black Bear "Returned"
to protect the cubs in the tree, by the Writer of the story, or the
individual who told the Writer of the story, the "Facts" of this
incident.
Unless the individual who stated the "Facts" is Bear Clarvoient, he
can NOT come the any Specific Conclusion, on just why the Female
Black Bear returned to the site. It could be just as easily "ASSUMED"
that the Female Black Bear returned to the scene, to feed at the Garbage
Can, AGAIN. Then finding the woman there, decided to munch her FIRST,
and then return to the Garbage. Black Bears NEVER leave Food. They
may run off a few yards if startled, or scared, but they will wait a bit
and return, once the Direct Threat has abated. The only real way to
cause the Bear to Move On, is to REMOVE the Food, PERIOD. Picking up
the Garbage doesn't remove the Food, it just moves it a bit, and to the
Bear, it doesn't change the Scent of Food, ANY, which is a Black Bears
Primary means of finding Food.

Black Bear cubs are perfectly protected when up a tree, 90% of the
prediters of Black Bear Cubs, don't climb trees to eat Cubs. There
is no real reason that the Female Black Bear would worry about cubs
while they are up a tree. Even if she decided to Move off the Food,
not likely, the cubs would follow her scent and catch up to her, once
the Threat of the Human presence abated.

This whole senerio is riddled with Human Interpritation of Black Bear
Behaviour, in Human Terms, and not from Black Bears viewpoint.

Certainly much of this is human interpretation. However - I'm hearing
a few viewpoints painting it as an absolute that a black bear sow will
never attack someone in order to protect its cubs. I believe there
have been enough documented incidents where a reasonable conclusion is
that protection of cubs was at least a contributory factor in the
attack. It's not as if bear have some sort of failsafe mechanism
wired in their brains that instructs them to not claw/bite/butt when
they want to protect their cubs.