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Say it ain't so Shimano!



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 14th 03, 05:59 PM
Jean
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

Perhaps this is old news to most folks here, but I was looking for some bike
parts today and I encountered the following web page:
http://www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html . The page says that only a
few select online bike stores will be allowed to sell Shimano stuff on the
web. A little googling indicates that the authorized stores are Supergo,
Performance, Bike Nashbar, Excel, Colorado Cyclist, and REI. The web page
states that any store that is not authorized and that continues to sell
Shimano stuff online will be put a list of banned retailers that Shimano
will send to Shimano distributors.

Discounting Shimano's "ensure that consumers are provided with the highest
levels of service ...blah, blah, blah" spin about why they have done this,
what is the real reason behind the policy? Was this policy forced by the
Supergo-Bike Nashbar-Performance conglomerate and designed to kill most
other online stores? Or is someone at Shimano just trying to encourage
people like me to by Campy equipment?


Jean


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  #2  
Old August 14th 03, 06:17 PM
bfd
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!


"Jean" wrote in message
...
Perhaps this is old news to most folks here, but I was looking for some

bike
parts today and I encountered the following web page:
http://www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html . The page says that only

a
few select online bike stores will be allowed to sell Shimano stuff on the
web. A little googling indicates that the authorized stores are Supergo,
Performance, Bike Nashbar, Excel, Colorado Cyclist, and REI. The web page
states that any store that is not authorized and that continues to sell
Shimano stuff online will be put a list of banned retailers that Shimano
will send to Shimano distributors.

Discounting Shimano's "ensure that consumers are provided with the highest
levels of service ...blah, blah, blah" spin about why they have done this,
what is the real reason behind the policy? Was this policy forced by the
Supergo-Bike Nashbar-Performance conglomerate and designed to kill most
other online stores? Or is someone at Shimano just trying to encourage
people like me to by Campy equipment?


I believe Cambria Bike and Jenson USA are also "authorized" shimano
dealers....


  #3  
Old August 14th 03, 06:25 PM
B. Sanders
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

"Jean" wrote in message
...
Perhaps this is old news to most folks here, but I was looking for some

bike
parts today and I encountered the following web page:
http://www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html . The page says that only

a
few select online bike stores will be allowed to sell Shimano stuff on the
web. A little googling indicates that the authorized stores are Supergo,
Performance, Bike Nashbar, Excel, Colorado Cyclist, and REI.


The web page
states that any store that is not authorized and that continues to sell
Shimano stuff online will be put a list of banned retailers that Shimano
will send to Shimano distributors.

Discounting Shimano's "ensure that consumers are provided with the highest
levels of service ...blah, blah, blah" spin about why they have done this,
what is the real reason behind the policy? Was this policy forced by the
Supergo-Bike Nashbar-Performance conglomerate and designed to kill most
other online stores?


Not likely. Since it includes competitors to Performance/Nashbar, it's
probably a Shimano initiative. That is, unless all of the participants have
agreed to sell Shimano at MSRP, thus eliminating price competition. I'll
bet there has been a great wailing sound from Performance/Nashbar/Supergo
over their own "price matching" policies. Several times, I've had Nashbar
and Performance price-match with JensonUSA, and the difference was like 25%.
I was getting the components for below wholesale. That had to grind their
gears.

Or is someone at Shimano just trying to encourage
people like me to by Campy equipment?


Campy is my choice for future component groups. I bought all new 2003
Ultegra components this year, and it is crap. The shifters are so cheap and
flimsy - they're a joke. I'm having all kinds of problems with them. I'll
never buy Shimano shifters again. That was a $175 mistake that I won't
repeat.

I hope the online shops start massively discounting non-Shimano components
from Campy, SRAM, Rohloff, Ritchey, DiaCompe, SunRace, Cyclone, etc, etc.
There *are* alternatives to ShimaNO. SRAM has some good MTB trigger
shifters now. Others will follow. Shimano STI shifters are poorly
engineered. I have 4 sets, and all of them are dodgy at best, even the
brand-new ones with Shimano-supplied cables.

Shimano is declaring war against the little guys. They're also begging us to
switch brands. Let's show them how we feel about this cartel and vote with
our dollars. Shimano hasn't always owned the market, and there's no
guarantee that they always will. Consumers can show them the error of their
ways by making sales drop precipitously and giving some of the market share
back to better, smaller companies. Throw off the chains of compulsory
obsoletion and choose a better alternative.

-Barry











  #4  
Old August 14th 03, 06:41 PM
gwhite
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Default Say it ain't so Shimano!



"B. Sanders" wrote:


Shimano hasn't always owned the market, and there's no
guarantee that they always will.


Exactly.
  #5  
Old August 14th 03, 06:45 PM
B. Sanders
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Posts: n/a
Default Say ShimaNO! Alternative MTB Component Groups

"B. Sanders" wrote in message
...

There *are* alternatives to ShimaNO.


To lend authority to my assertion, Bulltek Sports sells packaged non-Shimano
MTB component groups. Other online shops will likely follow:

http://www.bullteksports.com/catalog/MTBGruppos.htm

-Barry


  #6  
Old August 14th 03, 06:49 PM
Jim Edgar
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Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

B. Sanders at wrote on 8/14/03 10:25 AM:

"Jean" wrote in message
Perhaps this is old news to most folks here, but I was looking for some
bike
parts today and I encountered the following web page:
http://www.branfordbike.com/shimano/shimano.html . The page says that only
a
few select online bike stores will be allowed to sell Shimano stuff on the
web. A little googling indicates that the authorized stores are Supergo,
Performance, Bike Nashbar, Excel, Colorado Cyclist, and REI.


The web page
states that any store that is not authorized and that continues to sell
Shimano stuff online will be put a list of banned retailers that Shimano
will send to Shimano distributors.


Shimano is declaring war against the little guys.


Actually, it strikes me that they are finally giving the little guys a
little leverage...

Margins on groups aren't particularly high, and when someone wanders into an
LBS with mail order prices on parts that are essentially wholesale (or
below), what are they supposed to do? Sell below their cost or tell someone
to go buy it elsewhere? The LBS ends up looking like they are gouging when
all they are trying to do (in general) is make a decent margin.

This way, they keep companies like Excel, CC, REI and Super-Perform-Bar from
undercutting local dealers on price. I can't really view that as a bad
thing.


-- Jim


  #7  
Old August 14th 03, 08:20 PM
Werehatrack
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:18:52 -0400, ajames54
may have said:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:14:31 -0400, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:


It's called price fixing, and that is bad. Instead of complaining about the
mail order places you should be complaining about the distributors.


There is a difference between Authorized Distributors and Grey
Market.


I assume that by "grey market" you are referring to the retailers who
are selling diverted OEM-channel goods to the aftermarket.

Shimano is probably charging its distributors substantially more for
the cutthroat-priced items than the OEM-channel resellers are paying
to their sources, so the distributors are likely not the cause of the
price disparities. There are reasons for this; OEM-channel goods are
packed in bulk, not packaged for resale. OEM-channel goods are sold
under a different accounting calculation system, which puts a lower
support cost load on the product. Combined, these may add up to a
difference between OEM and Distributor that (based on my knowledge of
such matters from other markets) can easily be a factor of two or
higher. If Shimano identifies that an OEM purchaser is reselling OEM
goods as spare parts *directly*, then they have every reason to cut
off the offender's OEM purchasing privileges and make them go through
the distributor channels. However, I rather suspect that most of the
OEM goods are flowing via a source that's less obvious, and there's
probably more than one involved. I doubt that Shimano will close
those lines anytime soon, whether they want to or not.


--
My email address is antispammed;
pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
  #8  
Old August 14th 03, 08:49 PM
ajames54
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:20:02 GMT, Werehatrack
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:18:52 -0400, ajames54
may have said:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:14:31 -0400, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:


It's called price fixing, and that is bad. Instead of complaining about the
mail order places you should be complaining about the distributors.


There is a difference between Authorized Distributors and Grey
Market.


I assume that by "grey market" you are referring to the retailers who
are selling diverted OEM-channel goods to the aftermarket.

Shimano is probably charging its distributors substantially more for
the cutthroat-priced items than the OEM-channel resellers are paying
to their sources, so the distributors are likely not the cause of the
price disparities. There are reasons for this; OEM-channel goods are
packed in bulk, not packaged for resale. OEM-channel goods are sold
under a different accounting calculation system, which puts a lower
support cost load on the product. Combined, these may add up to a
difference between OEM and Distributor that (based on my knowledge of
such matters from other markets) can easily be a factor of two or
higher. If Shimano identifies that an OEM purchaser is reselling OEM
goods as spare parts *directly*, then they have every reason to cut
off the offender's OEM purchasing privileges and make them go through
the distributor channels. However, I rather suspect that most of the
OEM goods are flowing via a source that's less obvious, and there's
probably more than one involved. I doubt that Shimano will close
those lines anytime soon, whether they want to or not.


But the point is that a number of manufactures would / could over
order on their component groups and then sell the extras on to
different distribution points as a way of further reducing their
costs ...
Say .. you need 100 units @ unit price of $1
you buy 200 units at $1 (assuming no volume discount)
you sell 100 units at $1.10 to an unauthorized distributor.
you now keep 100 units with a cost of $0.90

The only real way to combat this is if the un authorized
distributor is some how unable to resell them. There will
obviously be some that is going into the retail channels but
those retailers that do buy this stuff will not be able to use
the online business under cut legit retailers.

I don't know if this was part of the thinking but currently many
"counterfeit" products are made in the same factories that make
the real thing... it is just that the parent company does not get
paid. If this is a problem for shimano then this action would
help combat it...

  #9  
Old August 14th 03, 08:58 PM
Paul Kopit
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:59:44 -0400, "Jean" wrote:

Discounting Shimano's "ensure that consumers are provided with the highest
levels of service ...blah, blah, blah" spin about why they have done this,
what is the real reason behind the policy?


What Shimano is doing is not new and it is common in the bicycle
business. Fixed price selling and controlled distribution are and
have been common in the bicycle business. Internet sales and
worldwide communications screwed things up for a while.

Shimano's business is OEM and supporting retailers. They couldn't
care less about the home mechanic because the overall volume is
meaningless. Shimano will likely sell almost the identical number of
derailleurs and not have to listen to the local retailers' complaints.

What's forgotten, is that irrespective of price, it's easier and
faster to buy many components on the internet than to have to wait for
a local source to order from a distributor.

Your recourse is to just stop buying, irrespective of price. While
your at it, don't buy Specialized, Pearl Izumi, Castelli, Colnago,
Mavic, or any other company with similar marketing practices.

Actually, consumers like buying Saturn automobiles and BMWs too.
  #10  
Old August 14th 03, 09:04 PM
Paul Kopit
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Posts: n/a
Default Say it ain't so Shimano!

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:25:16 -0500, "B. Sanders"
wrote:

Shimano is declaring war against the little guys. They're also begging us to
switch brands. Let's show them how we feel about this cartel and vote with
our dollars. Shimano hasn't always owned the market, and there's no
guarantee that they always will. Consumers can show them the error of their
ways by making sales drop precipitously and giving some of the market share
back to better, smaller companies. Throw off the chains of compulsory
obsoletion and choose a better alternative.


And stop buying Microsoft while you are at it.

Why should Shimano need to have anything they make sold at discount?
 




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