What's Changed in 20 Years?

I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

--Jon-

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:16:45 -0400, Jon Forrest
wrote:

I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

--Jon-

Almost none of your tools work. They've changed bottom brackets,
headsets, pretty much everything. Allens still work, thankfully. Now,
you can buy sets of tools for a reasonable price.

--
Bob in CT

Bob in CT wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:16:45 -0400, Jon Forrest
wrote:

I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

--Jon-

Almost none of your tools work. They've changed bottom brackets,
headsets, pretty much everything. Allens still work, thankfully. Now,
you can buy sets of tools for a reasonable price.

Agree. To answer the question, did the bikes you worked on have any of
the following:

index shifting
shifter/brake lever combination
clipless pedals
cartridge bottom bracket
threadless headsets/stems
non-metal frames, i.e., aluminum, titanium, carbon
dual pivot brakes
"compact" geometry

Things like "fitting" a frame should be similar to what you understand,

However, today's parts are definitely better. For example, today's $20
Shimano rear der will outperform the best 20 year old der. Try both a
Campagnolo ergo lever and Shimano STI lever. See which one you like
better.

As for tools and repair work, take a look at www.parktools.com and look
at its online instructions for repairing things like bb.

Today's "low-end," bikes, i.e., under $1000, will probably have all of
the above. I recommend you go to a good LBS near you and test ride
them. Enjoy!

Jon Forrest writes:

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

In general, road bikes shrank to such a small part of the market (
10% at one point), that mountain bike technology was used to service
the market for road bikes.

- indexed gear systems (allows driver to concentrate on road/trail)
- ramped & pinned cogs (good for shifting while climbing hills)
- oversized headsets, 1 1/8, 1 1/4, star-fangled nuts.
- carbon forks (lighter but damp only high-frequencies)
- clamp-on stems (ugly but easier to use)
- anatomic bars (fad)
- carbon parts (lighter but cannot be polished / restored.)
- cassette hubs (broke my 1st 126mm freewheel axle 2 months ago.)
- oversized bottom brackets (fad - like chater lea until 1950's)
- stupid-light saddles
- clipless pedals

In all bikes up to 9-speed (and 10-speed campy), cog width remains
about the same (1.8mm), front and rear. What has changed is the cog
spacing, front and rear. This means that any 9-speed (and 10-speed
campy) chain will work on any bicycle, however, look out for the
narrow chains getting stuck between modern chainwheels. Also, look
out for vintage 5/6/7 chains misbehaving or failing to set on modern
chainwheels and freewheels.

In the race "to the bottom" on bicycle weight, manufactureres have
been moving bicycle parts off of the bicycle and attaching them to the
rider. Road riders are now expected to ride with cleated shoes, to
allow uber-light clipless pedals. The responsibility of the saddle to
protect the bum has been offloaded to the rider's shorts. The
responsibility of the frame to carry a water bottle has been offloaded
to a backpack.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Jon Forrest writes:

I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

All of the English standards won. English threads on bottom brackets,
headsets, freewheel hubs, 27.2 mm seatpost (reynolds 531 db
throughout). Hail Brittania, Brittania makes the rules! Vintage
Raleighs are particularly attractive to collect.

In general, bike makers have been trying their darndest to obsolete
old standards, for hardly any technical reason :

- headsets in all different sizes and colors

- cartridge bottom brackets - not serviceable - more profitable.

- X+1 gears every 3-4 years.

- shimano indexing increased the spacing between rear axle and
derailleur hanger. This means modern mechs don't work with large
cogs on vintage bike derailleur hangers - mech pulleys hit the cog.

- EVERYTHING NEEDS A BRAZE-ON. In an obscene fad-driven marketing
orgy, makers are using a different shape for each tube of the bicycle.

- In general, bicyclists are much more at the mercy of market-driven
corporations than they were 20 years ago.

- The retro resistance fights against the borg-i-fication of the industry.

'nuff said.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

"Donald Gillies" wrote in message
...
Jon Forrest writes:

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

In general, road bikes shrank to such a small part of the market (
10% at one point), that mountain bike technology was used to service
the market for road bikes.

- indexed gear systems (allows driver to concentrate on road/trail)
- ramped & pinned cogs (good for shifting while climbing hills)
- oversized headsets, 1 1/8, 1 1/4, star-fangled nuts.
- carbon forks (lighter but damp only high-frequencies)
- clamp-on stems (ugly but easier to use)
- anatomic bars (fad)
- carbon parts (lighter but cannot be polished / restored.)
- cassette hubs (broke my 1st 126mm freewheel axle 2 months ago.)
- oversized bottom brackets (fad - like chater lea until 1950's)
- stupid-light saddles
- clipless pedals

In all bikes up to 9-speed (and 10-speed campy), cog width remains
about the same (1.8mm), front and rear. What has changed is the cog
spacing, front and rear. This means that any 9-speed (and 10-speed
campy) chain will work on any bicycle, however, look out for the
narrow chains getting stuck between modern chainwheels. Also, look
out for vintage 5/6/7 chains misbehaving or failing to set on modern
chainwheels and freewheels.

In the race "to the bottom" on bicycle weight, manufactureres have
been moving bicycle parts off of the bicycle and attaching them to the
rider. Road riders are now expected to ride with cleated shoes, to
allow uber-light clipless pedals. The responsibility of the saddle to
protect the bum has been offloaded to the rider's shorts. The
responsibility of the frame to carry a water bottle has been offloaded
to a backpack.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Just a few thoughts on the last part:
Clipless pedals are heavier, generally, than clips and straps. They are
safer in use and convenient. Racing shoes had cleats on them years ago!
You can still buy well padded saddles (I've got a few Selle Italia XOs), or
a Brooks if you must.
backpack water carriers are far more clean and easy to use off-road. How
many road frames don't have bottle cage bosses?

Skippy
E&OE

"Jon Forrest" wrote in message
...
I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

--Jon-

The biggest change is the cost of almost everything related to bicycles.
Clincher tires $30.00-$75.00, Brooks Pro saddles $125+, old fashioned
freewheels up to $75.00!

The biggest improvement I've seen is the new threadless headsets and
clamp on stems.

I've had the joy of trying to stop a customer's bike I was test riding
when the cheap cast aluminum stem broke and twice I've had steering
tubes break on me while riding.

There have been very few engineering innovations in bicycles over the
past 100 years - all ye doubters check some of the old patents before
placing foot in mouth. The biggest improvements have come from advances
in material technology.

The changes in bicycle mechanics is not very significant. If you possess
the mechanical aptitude to fix one kind of machine you can usually apply
it to another.

Chas.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:58:03 -0700, "* * Chas"
wrote:


"Jon Forrest" wrote in message
...
I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

--Jon-

The biggest change is the cost of almost everything related to bicycles.
Clincher tires $30.00-$75.00, Brooks Pro saddles $125+, old fashioned
freewheels up to $75.00!

The biggest improvement I've seen is the new threadless headsets and
clamp on stems.

I've had the joy of trying to stop a customer's bike I was test riding
when the cheap cast aluminum stem broke and twice I've had steering
tubes break on me while riding.

There have been very few engineering innovations in bicycles over the
past 100 years - all ye doubters check some of the old patents before
placing foot in mouth. The biggest improvements have come from advances
in material technology.

The changes in bicycle mechanics is not very significant. If you possess
the mechanical aptitude to fix one kind of machine you can usually apply
it to another.

Chas.

Dear Chas,

For what it's worth, here's what one inflation calculator predicts:
1985 2005
US$ US$
16.90 30.00
42.26 75.00
70.44 125.00
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

Canadians are about the same:
1985 2005
CN$ CN$
17.69 30.00
44.22 75.00
73.70 125.00
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html

And here's a chart showing the decline in purchasing power of
countries from 1980 to 1999, showing Japan, Italy, and the U.S.:
http://www.sunshinecable.com/~eisehan/V80-10en.htm

Of course, inflation alone can't measure what simply wasn't there.
Back in 1985, no amount of money would have bought my ridiculously
accurate $10 WalMart cyclocomputer.

And things like clipless pedals and shoes, freehubs instead of
freewheels, non-steel frames, indexed brifter shifting, and
low-spoke-count wheels were just about unobtainable. (Improved
materials make some things practical.)

Not to mention mountain bikes, newsgroups, ordering parts toll-free or
by the internet, and spokes that mysteriously became significantly
less fragile between 1983 and 1993.

But I still miss my 5-speed blue 1970 Schwinn with cowhorn handlebars
and paperback books that cost 65 cents.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:16:45 -0700, Jon Forrest
wrote:

I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

--Jon-

Something nobody else seems to have mentioned yet, and probably the
only genuine innovation (as a bicycle application) in the past 20
years is hydraulic disc brakes. If you're setting up as a mechanic,
you need to learn to fill and bleed hydraulics. Everything else in the
past 2 decades has served to eliminate repair in favour of replacement
e.g. cartridge bearings, non-serviceable Shimano STI units.

Although you need to replace some of your old tools to fit the new
standards, tool count has probably gone down - you needed 3 different
tools (fixed cup, adjusting cup and lock ring) to fit an old type BB,
now 1 tool does both cups and it fits a standard square drive ratchet.
Similarly, there are now just 2 cassette lock ring removers, compared
with the half dozen or so different types of freewheel removers I seem
to have picked up in the 80s, and headset adjustment is done with 1
Allen key instead of 2 special spanners which were invariably of
different sizes according to who made the headset.

The new tools you need to do a full bicycle assembly are a saw guide
for the steerer tube and a star-nut setting tool.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:20:54 -0600, wrote:


and spokes that mysteriously became significantly
less fragile between 1983 and 1993.


Where's the mystery? Improved metallurgy, particularly stainless
steels with much better fatigue life.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary