What's Changed in 20 Years?

Skippy wrote:

snip

Just a few thoughts on the last part:
Clipless pedals are heavier, generally, than clips and straps.

I was holding a pair of Time pedals the other day that were
unbelievably light -- 195 grams. My old Campy NR track pedals weigh
more than twice that, not including toe clips. I suspect that even
reasonably heavy clipless pedals/cleats are lighter than pedals and toe
clips of the olden days. I used nail-on aluminum/steel cleats that
were not much lighter than the current Look plastic cleats.

They are safer in use and convenient. Racing shoes had cleats on
them years ago!
You can still buy well padded saddles (I've got a few Selle Italia XOs), or
a Brooks if you must.
backpack water carriers are far more clean and easy to use off-road. How
many road frames don't have bottle cage bosses?

One thing I miss is the first generation Dura Ace casette -- pure
Fisher-Price stack-em-up cogs. You could build the cassette backward
if you wanted -- and none of those position specific cogs like the old
Regina freewheels. I also miss tough roller chains and cheap tires,
freewheels, chainrings, rims, etc. Rims and tires are outrageously
over-priced these days, even in inflation adjusted dollars. Otherwise,
good riddance to most of the old crap, although I wish I had saved more
of it because sentimental people on Ebay are paying a mint for it. --
Jay Beattie.

Threadless
stems have pretty much replaced the old quill type, but the older ones
still come through for repairs.

I disagree with this. Almost all of the low-to-mid-priced (the subject of
the OP's post) hybrids I've seen have threaded headsets, stems, and steerers
due to the ease of height adjustment.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:49:09 GMT, Werehatrack
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:16:45 -0700, Jon Forrest
wrote:

I was pretty good at working on bikes about 20 years
ago but stopped doing it in order to do other things.
Now I'm thinking of getting back into it.

Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find
in low and mid level bike technology. Note I'm
not talking about high end stuff because I didn't
do that then and I'm probably not going to start now.

The number one change is that there's often no money in working on
low-end bikes. Wal-Mart and its competitors have driven the price
(and quality) of sub-entry-level bike-shaped-objects so low that their
owners will seldom spring for any but the most trivial repairs; an
hour's labor and any significant component costs more than a complete
replacement unit. When somebody brings a Roadmaster in, if they have
any idea what it cost to buy, they're probably going to get immediate
sticker shock over the price of basic maintenance.

The quality of the basic BSO is way the hell better than it used to be. That $50
Roadmaster is vastly better than a $50 bike of twenty years ago and that's with
1986 dollars. Sure it sucks, but not like it used to.

Ron

Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
Obviously the laws of physics haven't changed in 20 years
but I'm wondering what other changes I might find

I was two years old 20 years ago.


Ha! I had more hair 20 years ago:
http://home.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/Aerorivr.jpg
Nowadays I have better taste in socks. My taste in bicycles hasn't
changed, though.

Jeff

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:58:03 -0700, "* * Chas"
wrote:
snip
The biggest change is the cost of almost everything related to
bicycles.
Clincher tires $30.00-$75.00, Brooks Pro saddles $125+, old fashioned
freewheels up to $75.00!
snip
Chas.

Dear Chas,

For what it's worth, here's what one inflation calculator predicts:
1985 2005
US$ US$
16.90 30.00
42.26 75.00
70.44 125.00
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
snip

Carl Fogel

Michelin had some of the first 700c x 25 high performance clinchers and
they sold for under $10.00 USD each! Similar sized Michelins are now
selling for $25.00 to $60.00+ each USD. That outpaces inflation.

We used to ride "baloondos", Clementi Campionato del Mondo silk sew-ups
and they cost less than $35.00 each.

I can put a new set of Michelin shoes on my less aerodynamic,
refrigerator box Volvo wagon for less than the cost of a pair of top
shelf bike tires!

Chas.

"Jay Beattie" wrote in message
oups.com...

Skippy wrote:

snip

Just a few thoughts on the last part:
Clipless pedals are heavier, generally, than clips and straps.

I was holding a pair of Time pedals the other day that were
unbelievably light -- 195 grams. My old Campy NR track pedals weigh
more than twice that, not including toe clips. I suspect that even
reasonably heavy clipless pedals/cleats are lighter than pedals and toe
clips of the olden days. I used nail-on aluminum/steel cleats that
were not much lighter than the current Look plastic cleats.

Perhaps I just use cheap stuff then! I'm sure my shimano Ultegra pedals are
heavier than the old 600EXs


They are safer in use and convenient. Racing shoes had cleats on
them years ago!
You can still buy well padded saddles (I've got a few Selle Italia XOs),
or
a Brooks if you must.
backpack water carriers are far more clean and easy to use off-road. How
many road frames don't have bottle cage bosses?

One thing I miss is the first generation Dura Ace casette -- pure
Fisher-Price stack-em-up cogs. You could build the cassette backward
if you wanted -- and none of those position specific cogs like the old
Regina freewheels. I also miss tough roller chains and cheap tires,
freewheels, chainrings, rims, etc. Rims and tires are outrageously
over-priced these days, even in inflation adjusted dollars. Otherwise,
good riddance to most of the old crap, although I wish I had saved more
of it because sentimental people on Ebay are paying a mint for it. --
Jay Beattie.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:27:10 -0700, "* * Chas"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:58:03 -0700, "* * Chas"
wrote:
snip
The biggest change is the cost of almost everything related to
bicycles.
Clincher tires $30.00-$75.00, Brooks Pro saddles $125+, old fashioned
freewheels up to $75.00!
snip
Chas.

Dear Chas,

For what it's worth, here's what one inflation calculator predicts:
1985 2005
US$ US$
16.90 30.00
42.26 75.00
70.44 125.00
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
snip

Carl Fogel

Michelin had some of the first 700c x 25 high performance clinchers and
they sold for under $10.00 USD each! Similar sized Michelins are now
selling for $25.00 to $60.00+ each USD. That outpaces inflation.

We used to ride "baloondos", Clementi Campionato del Mondo silk sew-ups
and they cost less than $35.00 each.

I can put a new set of Michelin shoes on my less aerodynamic,
refrigerator box Volvo wagon for less than the cost of a pair of top
shelf bike tires!

Chas.

Dear Chas,

My 1994 Pedal Pusher catalogue shows Michelin Select 25C wire 700 x 25
for $7.99.

But right above it is Conti Grand Prix folding kevlar 700 x 23 for
$36.99.

I suspect that the $10 Michelins of 198x were about the same (or
inferior) to the $10 tires available today from Nashbar and
Performance--perfectly good tires.

Here's Nashbar--I count nine 700c x 18..28 tires for less than $10 in
2006:

http://www.nashbar.com/results.cfm?s...ice1&pagename=

And I found them in about two minutes of clicking on the internet and
could have ordered them on my credit card after midnight and had them
arrive by Friday.

Of course, tires tend to be fashion items, as the enormous routine
discounts suggest.

In general, you can bet on better quality, larger selection, technical
improvements, and lower prices for just about everything as the years
go by.

There's a strong human tendency to think otherwise, but golden-age
theory rarely stands up to close inspection. What often looks like a
terrible loss of old quality is often a refusal to admit that the new
stuff offers advantages.

I've heard rumors around here, for example, that no decent bicycle
rims or tires have been made for a long time, but somehow people seem
to struggle on.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"Kinky Cowboy" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:20:54 -0600, wrote:


and spokes that mysteriously became significantly
less fragile between 1983 and 1993.


Where's the mystery? Improved metallurgy, particularly stainless
steels with much better fatigue life.

Kinky Cowboy*

Stainless steel spokes have been around for at least 40 years. They're
made from grade 303 or 304 (18/8) stainless steel which has
approximately 18% chrome and 8% nickel.

French Robergel Trois Etoiles (3 Star) spokes where the easiest to get
stainless spokes in the US. Swiss DT brand spokes became very popular
and have better quality threads.

Besides adding rust resistance, the chrome and nickel makes stainless
very tough. They are generally not much stronger than standard steel
spokes but they will stretch and withstand a lot more plastic
deformation before breaking.

Standard steel spokes become hardened during the drawing process which
increases strength but leaves them in a condition near the maximum
tinsel and yield strength of the steel. They will fail more easily from
metal fatigue than stainless steel spokes.

Chrome plated steel spokes if not properly treated after plating can
develop hydrogen embrittlement which makes them susceptible to breakage.

Little changes in the shape of spoke holes in better quality hubs plus
better control over the spoke heads and bend radius have resulted in
less spoke breakage.

I've never broken a premium quality spoke. Use good spokes and keep then
properly adjusted (wheels trued). The only broken I've experienced where
on cheap bikes from the bike boom days of the 1970s. Took out a junk
bike to road test once and broke 4-5 rear wheel spokes on the first hard
sprint. Sounded like an out of tune harp - bing bing bing.

Chas.

"Phil Lee, Squid" wrote in message
g.com...
Andrew Price wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:38:39 +0100, Kinky Cowboy
wrote:

Something nobody else seems to have mentioned yet, and probably the
only genuine innovation (as a bicycle application) in the past 20
years is hydraulic disc brakes.

And hydraulic rim brakes.

Neither of which are actually needed in 90% of riding applications.
--
Phil Lee, Squid


Hydraulic rim brakes = fairly pointless
Hydraulic discs = mud clearance and not chewing through pads and rims in
countries where it rains and people ride off-road. Maybe not so necessary
in dry places or where there aren't any steep gradients.


Skippy
E&OE

I agree about the price of tires.

Good-quality bicycle tires today are priced at the same level as
automobile tires, and this is either madness, or its the retailer
taking us all for fools.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA