#31
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Landis' aerobars
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
Now, is there any way we can use this data to fight off the arguments of the HPV set? Guys like you are in what we call the reality-based community, people who believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors, and you will be left to study what we do. For example, http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?.../29invs26inpt1 |
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#32
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Landis' aerobars
In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote: Ryan Cousineau wrote: Now, is there any way we can use this data to fight off the arguments of the HPV set? Guys like you are in what we call the reality-based community, people who believe that solutions emerge from judicious study of discernible reality. That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors, and you will be left to study what we do. For example, http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?.../29invs26inpt1 Chart-boy: you flatter me in ways you can't even imagine. Just to mention the least controversial, I'm not nearly as analytical as I pretend to be. I'm pretty good at generating reasonable hypotheses, but pretty bad at gathering and analyzing data to support them. In a contest between applications, I'd choose SketchUp over R, if you know what I mean. The other thing, is that what I really admire about the linked article is how the Angry Asian--not you; I mean James Huang*--got someone else to pony up for not one but two custom-built carbon/Ti hardtails. So, did he scam Cyclingnews, Seven, or a bit of both? Either way, kudos to them for going along with the con. History is kind to those who write it**, *: http://angryasian.com/index.php?fuseaction=main.home ** paraphrasing Churchill: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/2826 -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#33
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Landis' aerobars
In article ,
Ryan Cousineau wrote: History is kind to those who write it**, ** paraphrasing Churchill: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/2826 Or Ben Franklin. -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok? |
#34
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Landis' aerobars
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
The other thing, is that what I really admire about the linked article is how the Angry Asian--not you; I mean James Huang*--got someone else to pony up for not one but two custom-built carbon/Ti hardtails. So, did he scam Cyclingnews, Seven, or a bit of both? Either way, kudos to them for going along with the con. Well, I'm not sure kudos are deserved. From my point of view, it's sort of vaguely related to the syndrome that I referred to above, where engineers mostly think they can engineer out differences between two alternatives. The funny thing is that he leaves out the one thing that would let him actually measure a difference. It's an extraordinarily pooly conceived experiment that someone's paying for. Maybe that was his idea all along. In that case, kudos to him. |
#35
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Landis' aerobars
In article ,
Howard Kveck wrote: In article , Ryan Cousineau wrote: History is kind to those who write it**, ** paraphrasing Churchill: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/2826 Or Ben Franklin. Maybe. Would you rate Franklin's autobiography above Churchill's World War II memoirs? You might be right, though. Wikipedia quotes a different phrasing: "I will leave judgements on this matter to history ‹ but I will be one of the historians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston...tween_the_wars -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#36
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Landis' aerobars
In article ,
Ryan Cousineau wrote: In article , Howard Kveck wrote: In article , Ryan Cousineau wrote: History is kind to those who write it**, ** paraphrasing Churchill: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/2826 Or Ben Franklin. Maybe. Would you rate Franklin's autobiography above Churchill's World War II memoirs? You might be right, though. Wikipedia quotes a different phrasing: "I will leave judgements on this matter to history ‹ but I will be one of the historians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston...tween_the_wars Hey, there's no "maybe" about it. In rbr, all historical quotes shall be attributed to Franklin. -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok? |
#37
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Huang's Sevens (was: Landis' aerobars)
In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote: Ryan Cousineau wrote: The other thing, is that what I really admire about the linked article is how the Angry Asian--not you; I mean James Huang*--got someone else to pony up for not one but two custom-built carbon/Ti hardtails. So, did he scam Cyclingnews, Seven, or a bit of both? Either way, kudos to them for going along with the con. Well, I'm not sure kudos are deserved. From my point of view, it's sort of vaguely related to the syndrome that I referred to above, where engineers mostly think they can engineer out differences between two alternatives. The funny thing is that he leaves out the one thing that would let him actually measure a difference. It's an extraordinarily pooly conceived experiment that someone's paying for. Maybe that was his idea all along. In that case, kudos to him. Oh, the SRM power meter. Yeah. The worst part is all they would have had to do was change the bikes to V-brakes on the rear wheel. So you're suggesting they're trying to isolate elements of the bikes that cannot be easily isolated? I have an inkling of where you're going he the real question is whether an "optimized" 29er is faster/more fun/less filling than an "optimized" 26er. Nobody really cares if they have the same frame geometry, more that the chosen frame geometry is the best for that wheel size. For that matter, the question of which is faster only matters to the racy few. But at least it's an interesting, and probably solvable, question. Would you agree that the best way to do this experiment would have been to ask Seven (or any other 26/29 hardtail maker) to build two bikes for the same rider, using the maker's preferred geometries, make components as similar as possible (same saddle/post/cranks/pedals/bars/brakes), and measure some power outputs? One thing that does attract me to Huang's experiment is the promise of repeated trials of these two bikes over multiple courses. I have the sense that with numerous runs, we may asymptotically approach the truth. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#38
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Huang's Sevens (was: Landis' aerobars)
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article , "Robert Chung" wrote: Ryan Cousineau wrote: The other thing, is that what I really admire about the linked article is how the Angry Asian--not you; I mean James Huang*--got someone else to pony up for not one but two custom-built carbon/Ti hardtails. So, did he scam Cyclingnews, Seven, or a bit of both? Either way, kudos to them for going along with the con. Well, I'm not sure kudos are deserved. From my point of view, it's sort of vaguely related to the syndrome that I referred to above, where engineers mostly think they can engineer out differences between two alternatives. The funny thing is that he leaves out the one thing that would let him actually measure a difference. It's an extraordinarily pooly conceived experiment that someone's paying for. Maybe that was his idea all along. In that case, kudos to him. Oh, the SRM power meter. Yeah. The worst part is all they would have had to do was change the bikes to V-brakes on the rear wheel. Well, they could have: 1. used the SRM crank, or 2. used the Ergomo bottom bracket, or 3. used the Polar power module, or 4. considering that the bikes were --custom-made-- added conventional brake studs and then use the PT. Would you agree that the best way to do this experiment would have been to ask Seven (or any other 26/29 hardtail maker) to build two bikes for the same rider, using the maker's preferred geometries, make components as similar as possible (same saddle/post/cranks/pedals/bars/brakes), and measure some power outputs? Well, that'd certainly be a better experiment. When you have head lice you have to use a nit comb; you can't use a regular comb. When you're looking for a small and subtle effects, you have to use a measuring device that's sensitive enough to pick up small and subtle differences. With current technology, only an on-bike power meter is going to be sensitive enough to detect small effects. By leaving out the power meter, all you end up with is yet another subjective opinion. One thing that does attract me to Huang's experiment is the promise of repeated trials of these two bikes over multiple courses. I have the sense that with numerous runs, we may asymptotically approach the truth. I'd say repeated trials over one course would suffice if it were sufficiently varied--the SRM samples at about 1 second intervals, so as long as you go over bumpy stuff and sandy stuff and downhills and easy and hard climbs (that is, a normal MTB ride) you'll get enough observations to compare. Multiple courses sounds good, but it's actually probably a red herring. Large sample size doesn't make up for a poor experimental design. Take a look at Dave Harris' original 26 vs. 29 comparison. The bikes were probably too different, but other than that the experimental design was reasonably good. I think it could have been even better if the race course had been shorter and he'd been able to do more laps, i.e., more replicates of the same stretches of the course. |
#39
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Landis' aerobars
In article ,
Howard Kveck wrote: In article , Ryan Cousineau wrote: In article , Howard Kveck wrote: In article , Ryan Cousineau wrote: History is kind to those who write it**, ** paraphrasing Churchill: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/2826 Or Ben Franklin. Maybe. Would you rate Franklin's autobiography above Churchill's World War II memoirs? You might be right, though. Wikipedia quotes a different phrasing: "I will leave judgements on this matter to history ‹ but I will be one of the historians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston...tween_the_wars Hey, there's no "maybe" about it. In rbr, all historical quotes shall be attributed to Franklin. My apologies. I will obey the protocol in the future. My only excuse is that knowing me, I probably posted this while drunk. I can't remember. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#40
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Landis' aerobars
in message , Ryan
Cousineau ') wrote: In article , Howard Kveck wrote: In article , Ryan Cousineau wrote: In article , Howard Kveck wrote: In article , Ryan Cousineau wrote: History is kind to those who write it**, ** paraphrasing Churchill: http://www.quoteworld.org/quotes/2826 Or Ben Franklin. Maybe. Would you rate Franklin's autobiography above Churchill's World War II memoirs? You might be right, though. Wikipedia quotes a different phrasing: "I will leave judgements on this matter to history ‹ but I will be one of the historians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston...tween_the_wars Hey, there's no "maybe" about it. In rbr, all historical quotes shall be attributed to Franklin. My apologies. I will obey the protocol in the future. My only excuse is that knowing me, I probably posted this while drunk. I can't remember. In vino veritas -- Ben Franklin. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ; ... of course nothing said here will be taken notice of by ; the W3C. The official place to be ignored is on www-style or ; www-html. -- George Lund |
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