#81
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Jobst
On 9/3/2017 11:06 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are. Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it. I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school. In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a basic level of non-idiocy is required for success. Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country). ISTM the "education creates liberals" effort is concentrating on denigrating university professors and college education. There's a gaggle of right-wing columnists who dig deep to find admittedly silly things occurring in some schools and leap to statements that academia is totally worthless. I think the tactic with K-12 has been entirely different. Corporations have focused on bad results from inner-city schools and gamed the system to promote, then run, for-profit charter schools. Then they've gotten rich by siphoning off the tax dollars. In Ohio, at least, these for-profit charter schools were promising to provide far better educations. But they've consistently delivered no better and often far worse results. After years of educational failure, many were closed down by the state, but later re-formed with most of the same administrators under a new name, as a "new" school that rakes in yet more taxpayer money. As a bonus, for years they were exempt from many of the standards that public schools must meet. Oh, and they pay teachers far less while paying administrators far more. Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's scholastic life. I'll agree, although bad family background makes it damned hard to get kids to behave and perform. Society seems to look at kids with absent fathers, layabout mothers, ramshackle homes and gang-banger role models, and blame the teachers for not turning those kids into hard-working geniuses. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be successful. I absolutely agree. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#82
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Jobst
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 10:24:47 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped Well, you can pass the cost of wages along in price, assuming price elasticity. Smokers don't have a similar option for increasing revenues to cover the cost of cigarettes -- so the markets do operate differently. Paying a higher minimum wage also stimulates the economy because workers have more buying power. It's trickle-up instead of trickle-down. My son earned sh** in a bike shop and then took all his earnings and bought a bike from the shop.. Good discount, but still a money maker for the shop. -- Jay Beattie. But how long before the price increases due to the mimimum wage increase negates the minimum wage increase? It seems to negate it pretty quickly here. Cheers |
#83
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Jobst
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 9:52:22 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 10:24:47 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: Snipped Well, you can pass the cost of wages along in price, assuming price elasticity. Smokers don't have a similar option for increasing revenues to cover the cost of cigarettes -- so the markets do operate differently. Paying a higher minimum wage also stimulates the economy because workers have more buying power. It's trickle-up instead of trickle-down. My son earned sh** in a bike shop and then took all his earnings and bought a bike from the shop. Good discount, but still a money maker for the shop. -- Jay Beattie. But how long before the price increases due to the mimimum wage increase negates the minimum wage increase? It seems to negate it pretty quickly here. Depends on the market and the amount increase in minimum wage, and I'm not saying there should be an astronomical minimum wage. I'm just saying that the market effect of raising minimum wage is complex and not like the effect of spiking the price of cigarettes. It is not some form of economic punishment to curb unhealthy behavior. -- Jay Beattie. |
#84
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Jobst
On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 11:32:22 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/2/2017 6:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/2/2017 4:49 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per : High numbers of deaths from hospital acquired infections really only tells you that the general population is not very healthy. And in the USA that is primarily from a large illegal and legal immigrant population that has arrived from countries that do not have particularly good health. How about antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria like MERSA? That's the fault of the liberals. Tom will explain how. He may well, but it's an equal-time offense. One of our customers heads up the antibiotic abuse research section at Inst. Pasteur in France. He corroborates a Milwaukee GP's complaint that mothers bring in children with viruses and insist on antibiotics right now. No prescription = 'bad doctor', a label which can devastate a clinic's practice as the mothers all gossip. Similar problem with opiates for every little thing. Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are. Most pains I solve with Aleve or Tylenol. But that big crash I had late last year gave me back pains so severe that nothing would work. The doctor grudgingly prescribe Hydrocodone - a synthetic opioid. That would knock out the pain for about 5 hours so I could get some sleep. It took about a week for the pain to subside so I quit them as fast as possible. And damn if I didn't feel addiction pangs. They aren't kidding when they say these sorts of things are addictive and that 80% of opioid addicts are from these pills. A friend just had a pretty severe fall hit her elbow and they prescribed Vicadin. This is a combination of Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen. They are trying to get doctors to really stand down on prescribing this but the pain relief is so good that there's nothing to replace it. |
#85
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Jobst
On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 4:02:33 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/3/2017 2:32 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2017 6:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/2/2017 4:49 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote: Per : High numbers of deaths from hospital acquired infections really only tells you that the general population is not very healthy. And in the USA that is primarily from a large illegal and legal immigrant population that has arrived from countries that do not have particularly good health. How about antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria like MERSA? That's the fault of the liberals. Tom will explain how. He may well, but it's an equal-time offense. One of our customers heads up the antibiotic abuse research section at Inst. Pasteur in France. He corroborates a Milwaukee GP's complaint that mothers bring in children with viruses and insist on antibiotics right now. No prescription = 'bad doctor', a label which can devastate a clinic's practice as the mothers all gossip. Similar problem with opiates for every little thing. Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are. I've thought about that when battling my annual upper respiratory maladies. Without going into too much detail, it's been a recurring problem, sometimes getting quite bad. After a couple years of recurrences, my physician became very quick to prescribe antibiotics for me, even though there's been doubt about bacteria vs. virus vs. allergy. As you've said, any particular physician experiences a downside to saying "no" when antibiotics are requested. And for the particular physician, there really isn't an upside to saying "no" - he gets no bonus points. This means that even in the absence of pleading, if there's some small chance antibiotics might work, he may as well prescribe them. The good news is this problem is temporary. Once the bacteria adapt sufficiently, they'll reduce our population density to the point where contagion is much less of an issue. Nobody will worry much about over-prescribed antibiotics, or lots of other modern problems. It'll be a golden age! Frank - being immune to antibiotics doesn't mean that the bacteria are any more dangerous to the human body. In fact in many cases the bacteria often become less dangerous. |
#87
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Jobst
On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 7:33:46 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 15:02:04 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/2/2017 2:37 PM, wrote: I worked on many medical instruments and the company managers didn't want us to even go into hospitals during tests. Every possible bacteria is floating around ANY hospital. High numbers of deaths from hospital acquired infections really only tells you that the general population is not very healthy. And in the USA that is primarily from a large illegal and legal immigrant population that has arrived from countries that do not have particularly good health. That's true, and historically very high at the moment. No, it's not true that legal and illegal immigrants are to blame for this. Most of the burden of health care costs in America are the result of treating chronic illnesses: hypertension, hyperlipidemia, obesity, diabetes, COPD, arthritis, etc. Most of those are "natural born" Americans Tim, this isn't a question. Many of these diseases that are in hospitals were conquered in the USA a hundred years ago. We are seeing Typhoid Fever for crying out loud! Cholera is almost universally in third world countries with polluted water supplies. Americans for the most part are vaccinated for pneumonia so why is a something like 1.1 million cases of hospital deaths in the US from pneumonia? Today we lose something like 50,000 mostly kids from influenza because the variations are brought into this country from foreign countries and the influenza vaccines can miss these newer variations. Malaria is a mosquito born disease that has to be carried by a mosquito biting someone that already has it. This is from third world people. Legionnaire's disease is a hospital disease. Infected people cough the bacteria into the air around them and other's with weakened immune systems inhale and are infected. Where does it come from? Warm fresh water areas - central and south America. Even Anthrax is beginning to show up. This stuff kills un-vaccinated cows and is spread via third world people showing up in US hospitals. Most of these diseases do NOT come from China. Nor am I saying that once here they should not be treated. But at least accept that this is happening for crying out loud. |
#88
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Jobst
On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 8:28:01 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 3 Sep 2017 09:44:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 8:29:00 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: I believe that your, much described, brain damage is showing up in your posts. What in the world does the amount that a U.S. doctor is paid have to do with the wealth of a Thai doctor. I'm becoming more and more sure that your brain damage is effecting your posts as we aren't discussing a socialized medicine system. In fact in rereading the above I mentioned "government service", "private hospitals" and that "doctors that work in government hospitals have private clinics". Exactly what are you arguing? A Thai doctor can't even afford an American medical education unless after graduation he works in America for a couple of years. I can only say that I have known at least three doctors that I am certain obtained their medical education and were board certified in the U.S. One of whom was the Senior Surgeon in the USAF hospital at Takhili RTAFB in 1969, under contact to the U.S. Air Force. In addition it is quite possible for a Thai who is a graduate MD to obtain a redundancy in a U.S. hospital and obtain his board qualifications. "In addition, Sondheimer said that it is fairly common for graduates of foreign medical schools to do their residency in America. We are not graduating enough graduates in the U.S. to fill all the first year residency positions, he said. So the rest of those spots get filled by people from overseas medical schools." (Dr. Henry Sondheimer, the senior director of medical education at the AAMC (Association of American Medical Colleges). Good Lord, the recent King's father attended medical school in the U.S. John - you just said again the same thing I did. What is going on in your head? |
#89
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Jobst
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:07:19 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/3/2017 10:06 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are. Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it. I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school. In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a basic level of non-idiocy is required for success. Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country). Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be successful. One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on college as the be-all and end-all of education. I see the problems much as you do but out in the real world, "everyone ought to..." scares the crap out of me. My youngest brother was a football player at a major university, functionally illiterate yet with a 4-year degree and fantastic GPA. After a few lost years he finally cleaned himself up, completed an MBA and turned out OK while many of his cohort never survived the post football years of alcohol drugs and general dissolution. You make a rule and half the staff will go around it either through indolence or avarice. All of what you say is true from my viewpoint. But I believe that the leftists are purposely maintaining ignorance or worse in the population so that they might more easily control them. |
#90
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Jobst
On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:14:32 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/4/2017 12:49 AM, John B. wrote: On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 22:06:16 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:32:48 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Without an educated populace the gatekeepers are powerless and wishing for an educated population is a fool's dream. And here we are. Yep. And unfortunately there is a large percentage of the American population who have opted to be stupid and proud of it. I have said this before and will say it again. I have for decades thought that a class in logic ought to be required in every high school. In a participatory form of government- like, you know, democracy, a basic level of non-idiocy is required for success. Unfortunately someone decided that "education creates liberals," and thus far too many politicians have decided to oppose competent public education (at least here, don't know about other parts of the country). Here I'll sound like a conservative: schools need to have standards and accountability for behavior and educational performance, parents (or someone in the home) need to be actively involved in their children's scholastic life. And we need to recognize that not everyone wants to or is able to attend college successfully, which seems to be the current goal of Americam education policy; there should be multiple educational tracks available to help students acquire the skills they need to be successful. One thing I heard from Trump a while back was having some sort of system for apprenticeships, which Germany- probably among others- has done with success for decades; haven't heard a peep about it since, so maybe it fell off the radar. I think that would be a good idea. In my state we seem intent on dismantling the trade schools because of the emphasis on college as the be-all and end-all of education. Apprenticeship used to be a method of learning a trade. Abraham Lincoln, I believe, "read for the law" which was realistically an apprenticeship program. It eventually became a term used to describe a learning period for the manual trades (one might call them) and then the manual trades became obsolete. Does anyone get up in the middle of the night to knead tomorrow's bread? Or dig a ditch by hand? I completed an apprenticeship to be a "Machinist", although I subsequently went to an engineering school, but I can remember as early as the mid-late 1960's that very little work for a qualified machinist existed. One or maybe two in a big shop and the rest were machine operators. I know that The Donald talked about apprenticeships, and increasing employment, and increasing minimum salaries, and reducing costs, and, and, but I haven't seen much progress being made. Now there is an exercise in logic. (1) Increase wages which certainly contributes to higher sales prices, and (2) reduce costs? Mayor Comerade Bill in NYC says that increasing cigarette taxes will stop smoking but increasing the minimum wage will not stop employment. Hey Tim McNamara - could you loan him a logic textbook? In California they just had a perfect example - they increased wages and lost many jobs to automation. So what have the done about this? Demanded higher minimum wages. |
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