Noise from new Sunrace cassette

On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you?

Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern"
Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last
allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the
70s-early 80s.

Mark J.

Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them.


Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was
invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and
make sure nothing potentially flammable is around.

This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG
hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that
last UG hub was finished, then I went HG.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual
cogs on backwards did you?

Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern"
Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last
allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the
70s-early 80s.

Mark J.

Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them.


Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was
invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and
make sure nothing potentially flammable is around.

This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG
hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that
last UG hub was finished, then I went HG.


Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg.

--
duane

On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 2:37:18 PM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual
cogs on backwards did you?

Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern"
Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last
allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the
70s-early 80s.

Mark J.

Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them.


Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was
invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and
make sure nothing potentially flammable is around.

This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG
hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that
last UG hub was finished, then I went HG.


Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg.

--
duane

You can flip the one that don't have the built in spacer but they don't work right or as designed to. Straight tooth cogs like the old Uniglide ones should be flipped with no problems arising from being flipped. Remember that Joerg hacked this cassette and put some cogs on individually. That's why I asked if he inadvertently put some on backwards. That plus the 7-speed chain might cause the problem he's having.

Cheers

Cheers

On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual
cogs on backwards did you?

Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern"
Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last
allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the
70s-early 80s.

Mark J.

Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them.


Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was
invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and
make sure nothing potentially flammable is around.

This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG
hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that
last UG hub was finished, then I went HG.


Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg.

Why -- when a UG freehub is on its last legs -- would someone grind down an entire set of HG cassettes to make them fit? You know the end is near -- just go buy the damned hub or at least swap in a HG freehub body. It's a ten minute operation. Not possible for old DuraAce (which Joerg would never own anyway), but you could swap freehub bodies on 600EX. Plus, even after you get done grinding, you have to use the last threaded cog -- which is probably worn out.

And for Sir, you can't flip HG -- at least not without grinding. I just went and tried flipping a cog from a junk freewheel sitting in my basement. It's a no-go. I'll go try again just to make sure I'm not missing anything.



-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight.. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual
cogs on backwards did you?

Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern"
Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last
allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the
70s-early 80s.

Mark J.

Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them.


Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was
invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and
make sure nothing potentially flammable is around.

This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG
hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that
last UG hub was finished, then I went HG.


Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg.

Why -- when a UG freehub is on its last legs -- would someone grind down an entire set of HG cassettes to make them fit? You know the end is near -- just go buy the damned hub or at least swap in a HG freehub body. It's a ten minute operation. Not possible for old DuraAce (which Joerg would never own anyway), but you could swap freehub bodies on 600EX. Plus, even after you get done grinding, you have to use the last threaded cog -- which is probably worn out.

And for Sir, you can't flip HG -- at least not without grinding. I just went and tried flipping a cog from a junk freewheel sitting in my basement. It's a no-go. I'll go try again just to make sure I'm not missing anything..



-- Jay Beattie.

I'm NOT talking about flipping a HG cog onto a UG freehub. I'm talking about flipping a HG cog on a HG freehub.

CHeers

On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 4:24:40 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 11:37:18 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-25 09:25, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front..

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual
cogs on backwards did you?

Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern"
Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last
allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the
70s-early 80s.

Mark J.

Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them.


Sure you can, BTDT. That's one of the many reasons why the Dremel was
invented. You'll have to wear good eye protection during that job and
make sure nothing potentially flammable is around.

This is also how I got cogs hacked out of HG cassettes onto my last UG
hub, mainly because UG cassettes could no longer be bought. Until that
last UG hub was finished, then I went HG.


Jay I just started to reply that you shouldn’t underestimate Joerg.

Why -- when a UG freehub is on its last legs -- would someone grind down an entire set of HG cassettes to make them fit? You know the end is near -- just go buy the damned hub or at least swap in a HG freehub body. It's a ten minute operation. Not possible for old DuraAce (which Joerg would never own anyway), but you could swap freehub bodies on 600EX. Plus, even after you get done grinding, you have to use the last threaded cog -- which is probably worn out.

And for Sir, you can't flip HG -- at least not without grinding. I just went and tried flipping a cog from a junk freewheel sitting in my basement.. It's a no-go. I'll go try again just to make sure I'm not missing anything.



-- Jay Beattie.

I'm NOT talking about flipping a HG cog onto a UG freehub. I'm talking about flipping a HG cog on a HG freehub.

CHeers

I can't get a HG cassette cog to fit on a HG freehub body if I flip the cog.. The notches are not symmetrical.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 06:09:49 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the
cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes.

Mine was chrome-plated steel. I missed the constant jingle after a
competent mechanic threw it away. (It never did anything except warn
people that I was coming.)

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 4:05:29 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new
chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much
better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there
is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the
chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard
to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and
always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked,
it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On
the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an
almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go
away over time?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It just occurred to me Joerg - didn't the older 8-speed SunRace cassettes come with SR or Shimano spacings You can look at https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k9.shtml

On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 22:47:27 -0500,
Joy Beeson wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 06:09:49 +0700, John B Slocomb
wrote:

Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted
between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes.

Mine was chrome-plated steel. I missed the constant jingle
after a competent mechanic threw it away. (It never did
anything except warn people that I was coming.)

And the earlier versions being made of metal is probably why these
came to be called pie plates.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA

On 2018-11-26 08:56, wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 4:05:29 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a
new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills
much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo!

However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed)
there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load.
Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run
100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per
pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes.

The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I
looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit
grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird
because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small
chain ring up front.

Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll
go away over time?

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It just occurred to me Joerg - didn't the older 8-speed SunRace
cassettes come with SR or Shimano spacings You can look at
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k9.shtml


I have (mostly) used a set of spacers from my old UG cassettes. That way
I got seven of the eight cogs mounted on the freehub. Had to scarifice
the 15T. On a hilly ride yesterday that felt good but I'll see on a
longer ride in the flatlands later this week if the 15T should go back
in and maybe the 28T taken out instead.

40T in back sure feels good on some of these here hills.

BTW, together with a buddy we found the cause and I think someone here
had mentioned it: The chain rings are a bit worn. The smaller one more
so and it has developed slight shark fin tips on the teeth. This causes
the chain to be picked up at the bottom during high torque, resulting in
chain slap and, in consequence, derailer "dancing". Unfortunately that
chain ring can't be flipped around easily for a 2nd life so I need to
find a new one. For now I'll file down the shark fins a bit.

Question: Does anyone now whether it's ok to buy a 30mm BCD chain ring
for 10-speed chains that's a bit narrower and run a 7-speed chain on it?
I guess it'll "walk" a bit more sideways that usual, not sure if that
matters much.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/