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durability of Mavic MA3s?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 7th 05, 02:32 PM
Qui si parla Campagnolo
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?


Jay S. Hill wrote:
I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a spoke
tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like the MA3s
of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been the most
reliable.



Very common on MA-3s. We stopped building with them after about the
10th one did this very thing.

What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike; it
sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt roads,
and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.


CXp-33, Velocity Fusion or Deep V.


Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims that
would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?


608mm ERD...'fool me once, shame on me', I believed Mavic on MA-3s, got
the 'really, haven't heard of that', type BS from mavic after the 3rd
or 4th one. I Would not use them now under any circumstances.

Ads
  #12  
Old August 7th 05, 02:35 PM
Qui si parla Campagnolo
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?


jim beam wrote:
Jay S. Hill wrote:
I've just found that a Mavic MA3 rim on one of my bikes has had a spoke
tear the rim. I've done a bit of Googling and it looks like the MA3s
of my vintage (about three years old) might not have been the most
reliable.

What should I use to replace the failed MA3? The wheel is used on a
cyclocross bike that sees rugged use. It's my heaviest road bike; it
sometimes gets ridden fairly hard over broken asphalt and dirt roads,
and has heavy Continental Travel Contact 37mm tires on it.

Are newer MA3s more reliable? Are there other more reliable rims that
would allow me to reuse the same spokes (ie, that have the same
dimensions)?


what is your spoke tension? these rims need to be built with the aid of
a tensiometer. excess tension will cause cracking just as you describe.


All three of the wheelbuilders here use the DT dial tensionometer and
all were very precise in the tension..we still have about a dozen fail
like was desribed. It was a poor design, not the tension.


no known differences on ma3's over time. if you want a change, there
are plenty of other rims out there, but not many with the same effective
rim diameter [erd] so a change of rim probably means re-spoking. if you
want something more abuse tolerant, one of the mavic touring rims like
the a719 are very robust but have different erd's and probably drilling
count too.


  #14  
Old August 7th 05, 08:45 PM
JeffWills
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?


BrewsterFong wrote:
"JeffWills" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:

What do you think of
http://tinyurl.com/cjwd6

That looks great. Now all I need to do is get some of these from my LBS.

Jobst Brandt


If you manage that, Jobst, could you share your secret? As far as I can
determine, Ambrosio rims are only available in the U.S. under the
Torelli brand name, and Torelli says those particular rims are no
longer being made. I'd love to get my hands on a couple sets of rims
like the old MA-2.

A couple of online places that sells Ambrosio rims are

www.ital-tecno.com

http://www.ridecampy.com/26/cat26.htm?77


And it appears neither place lists the Ambrosio Nexus rim that was
referenced above. Bzzzzzt!

Jeff

  #15  
Old August 8th 05, 01:39 AM
Hank Wirtz
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?

"JeffWills" wrote in
oups.com:


If you manage that, Jobst, could you share your secret? As far as I
can determine, Ambrosio rims are only available in the U.S. under
the Torelli brand name, and Torelli says those particular rims are
no longer being made. I'd love to get my hands on a couple sets of
rims like the old MA-2.

A couple of online places that sells Ambrosio rims are

www.ital-tecno.com

http://www.ridecampy.com/26/cat26.htm?77


And it appears neither place lists the Ambrosio Nexus rim that was
referenced above. Bzzzzzt!

Jeff


Well, here's a place with some 32h Torelli Masters left:

http://www.spokeandsprocket.com/cartgenie/prod-95.htm

I'm actually in the process of getting a set of wheels built with 36h
Torelli Masters (with Veloce hubs), and the LBS guy (Aaron Goss at
Aaron's Bicycle Repair) building them told me the following:

1) that not only are they similar to the MA2s, they're actually extruded
from the old MA2 dies, in France. The straight stock is shipped to
Italy, where Ambrosio rolls them.

2)when his stock of Torellis runs out, he plans on switching to the
Ambrosio Nexus, so apparently, he's confident he can get them.

I dunno, his website is http://www.rideyourbike.com - He doesn't do
built wheels via mail order, but does do some mail order of parts. Maybe
he can get you the rims, or maybe he can point you to his distributor.

-Hank

  #16  
Old August 8th 05, 06:30 AM
41
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?


Hank Wirtz wrote:

Well, here's a place with some 32h Torelli Masters left:

http://www.spokeandsprocket.com/cartgenie/prod-95.htm

I'm actually in the process of getting a set of wheels built with 36h
Torelli Masters (with Veloce hubs), and the LBS guy (Aaron Goss at
Aaron's Bicycle Repair) building them told me the following:

1) that not only are they similar to the MA2s, they're actually extruded
from the old MA2 dies, in France. The straight stock is shipped to
Italy, where Ambrosio rolls them.


Could someone who remembers the exact dimensions of the MA2 check if
these are consistent with the Nexus/Torelli Master?

If the are the same, what happened that there was a Torelli Master
"tight fit" problem which was described in a recent thread here? That
would mean a goof at Ambrosio in cutting the stock to the right length.
Does your builder know if this was corrected?

s

  #17  
Old August 8th 05, 06:53 AM
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?

George King writes:

Well, here's a place with some 32h Torelli Masters left:


http://www.spokeandsprocket.com/cartgenie/prod-95.htm


I'm actually in the process of getting a set of wheels built with
36h Torelli Masters (with Veloce hubs), and the LBS guy (Aaron Goss
at Aaron's Bicycle Repair) building them told me the following:


1) that not only are they similar to the MA2s, they're actually
extruded from the old MA2 dies, in France. The straight stock is
shipped to Italy, where Ambrosio rolls them.


Could someone who remembers the exact dimensions of the MA2 check if
these are consistent with the Nexus/Torelli Master?


I have a few cross section slices of MA-2's in front of me and they
look identical in shape and dimensions given.

If the are the same, what happened that there was a Torelli Master
"tight fit" problem which was described in a recent thread here?
That would mean a goof at Ambrosio in cutting the stock to the right
length. Does your builder know if this was corrected?


I would rather measure the OD first before further conjecture.

Jobst Brandt
  #18  
Old August 8th 05, 05:03 PM
Hank Wirtz
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?


"41" wrote in message
oups.com...

If the are the same, what happened that there was a Torelli Master
"tight fit" problem which was described in a recent thread here? That
would mean a goof at Ambrosio in cutting the stock to the right length.
Does your builder know if this was corrected?


It wasn't mentioned one way or another. He won't sell Mavics because of the
eyelet problems though, and seems like a fastidious enough guy that
something like that would not be allowed to slide.

In SpoCalc, though, it mentions 2 different ERDs for Torelli Masters. Before
& After, maybe?

-HW


  #19  
Old August 8th 05, 05:50 PM
Alex Rodriguez
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?

In article , says...

but jobst, according to competent professional wheel builders on this
group, many non-eyelet rims successfully resist cracking, and of the
mavic rims, the x517 & now x717 series [including disk-specific rims]
use only single eyelet with no apparent disadvantage. the only "design
weakness" of the ma3 is that it cannot tolerate "tension as high as the
rim will bear", but that's not a mavic problem. a quick call to
888-gomavic will reveal the manufacturer spoke tension spec and the
recommended application.


Why would mavic not include that information with every rim?

regarding the ma2, that rim has been shown to crack, its eyelets rust
[i'll post pics if proof is required] and its shallow profile is very
prone to flat spots. not too light either.


I've used these in the past with no problems. I never flat spotted the rim.

oh, and it doesn't have
machined brake tracks which mean that brakes cannot be fully efficient
until the brake pad has worn to fit the rim profile.


BS ad speak. Machined sidewalls are unecessary, and add cost to the rim.
That is probably why the MA-3 is inferrior to the MA-2. They spent the money
on unecessary machining instead of add sockets.

all in all, i
think it's time you moved on. there's nothing more to see with the ma2.


You have fall for the 'it's new so it must be better' line that advertisers
like to repeat. I get the impression mavic has little interest in selling
rims. They would actually prefer their rims to not do well so that you would
buy their pre-built wheels which sell for substantially more money.
--------------
Alex





  #20  
Old August 8th 05, 06:31 PM
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Default durability of Mavic MA3s?

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 12:50:50 -0400, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:

In article , says...

but jobst, according to competent professional wheel builders on this
group, many non-eyelet rims successfully resist cracking, and of the
mavic rims, the x517 & now x717 series [including disk-specific rims]
use only single eyelet with no apparent disadvantage. the only "design
weakness" of the ma3 is that it cannot tolerate "tension as high as the
rim will bear", but that's not a mavic problem. a quick call to
888-gomavic will reveal the manufacturer spoke tension spec and the
recommended application.


Why would mavic not include that information with every rim?


[snip]

Dear Alex,

My theory is that Mavic employs some of the stupidest--

Certain corporations make a fetish of secrecy and
inconvenience because they're nitwits who--

Er, the recommended tension for Mavic rims is a proprietary
secret, meant for dealers, not ordinary users. For their
convenience, tension specs are available through these eight
easy steps:

Go he
http://www.tech-mavic.com/

Click on English.

Log on as mavic-com, using the secret password dealer.

Click on products.

Click on a category like road and triathlon.

Click on a rim model.

Click on spare parts and references.

Wait for the pdf to load.

Look down on the lower right for the tension.

Or you can try Jim's more primitive method of calling
888-gomavic and asking for the same secret information.

The point is that you, as a mere customer, are not supposed
to think that the company gives out this kind of info to
just anybody.

Heaven forbid that there should be an easily available web
site that answers the obvious questions!

Carl Fogel
 




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