So Long Tubulars?

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:09:36 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 5:41:27 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 2:16:11 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 4:56:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 5:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:35:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate — down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.

Right Tom, more from America!

Do you remember when they were building the bridge across the bay and
someone complained about why they were buying steel from China? And
the answer was that the steel structures were not available in the
U.S.

Do you know that the largest investor in U.S. government bonds, of all
the countries in the world, is China. Some 1.11 Trillion dollars
worth. Which is to say that the U.S. owes China 1.11 trillion dollars.
As of January, 2019 there was approximately $1.70 trillion in U.S.
currency in circulation. So the U.S. owes China an amount equal to 65%
of all the U.S. currency in circulation.

Can you guess what would be the effect of China demanding that the
U.S. pay up?

Do you know anything?

--
cheers,

John B.


It's not an accident. There's no reason in hell China
should be in WTO or granted MFN. A decasdes long pattern of
predatory behavior centered on IP theft and administrative
barriers more draconian than tariffs coonclude China's
pattern of never in any instance complying with any treaty,
military or commercial.

And yet they do indeed have cash to throw around, enough to
build a Navy with a long range plan to use it. All financed
by my neighbors who can't resist 23c off for a crappy
WalMart gadget with a US flag on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You're correct about the Most Favored Nation status. John doesn't seem to understand
that not only does the US have the capability of making steel but the
necessary skills at making BETTER steel. There was absolutely NO
REASON that China should have been awarded the Oakland Bay Bridge
contract. Firstly the bids with the American company were almost
identical. And then after they got the contract the Chinese company
redesigned the structure and more than doubled their original contract
price. After it was completed every single piece of steel in the
bridge was substantially sub-standard. Even the suspension wires are
below standard plus they ends were improperly capped and the rain that
we had flooded the suspension wires so that they are showing rust.

Tom, I find that very difficult to believe unless you are rally saying
hat the people who were talked with overseeing the construction of the
bridge were incompetent or taking bribes.

And I am saying that from experience with a number of international
oil companies. They demand, and check, detail's of the materials
supplied and all the work accomplished. For example, I once
constructed some 15 miles of gas pipe line and as part of the contract
was required to supply all design specifications and physical layout,
specifications of the pipe and the material the pipe was made from had
to be supplied, every welder had to be certified as competent by a
3rd party inspector, the welding rod was specified by the company,
every weld was required to be marked for identification and x-rayed
and the films had to be furnished to the company. The pressure tests
were witnessed by both the" company man" and a 3rd party inspector,
and finally after it was built, it had to have an operational test
where we pumped water through the line and pressure readings were
taken at both the inlet and outlet.

And, I might add, this was/is a standard practice in the business.

And you are telling me that the California department of whoever
didn't do this?

or are you lying again?

--
cheers,

John B.

Now I don't even believe that you were a construction foreman.

Tom, hate to tell you but nobody gives a rats ass what you think.
You've lied and than weaseled your way out by changing the subject and
going off at a tangent and insulting those that don't believe the
lurid fantasies that you post as facts.

In fact I would black-list you except that you apparently voted for
Trump and it is interesting ( in a sick sort of way) to watch the
antics of one of his supporters.
--
cheers,

John B.

Seems to me that you must care give a rats ass what Tom thinks or you wouldn't be posting so many replies to him. VBEG LOL ;)

Cheers

I agree that I probably do post an excessive number of replies to Tom.
But I find it interesting to see just how far he will squirm to avoid
admitting that he really did post some utter B.S.

I also find it interesting to see just how far fetched some of his
fantasies are. Given that the U.S. education system is far from being
the worst in the world I would have considered it very unlikely that
anyone educated in the U.S. could deny history to the extent that Tom
does.
--
cheers,

John B.

5 pages in this topic if one accesses the group via Google Groups but about 14 replies were related to the topic - "O Long Tubulars". Topic drift is one thing but 4. something pages of mostly totally off-topic responses? It's very common on this newsgroup for that to happen. Too bad too as it makes searching a right royal pain in the butt when one wants an informative reply. I think it's a primary reason that the rec.bicycles Usenet groups are dying or dead. Take a look at rec.bicycles.social, rec.bicycles.misc, rec.bicycles.marketplace to see some of the virtually dead Usenet groups.

Cheers

If you really want to see emotion versus facts try any of the gun
sites - rec.guns, etc. It really makes one wonder whether the
"Founding Fathers" were right with their 2nd amendment (;-0)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:07:36 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 2:41:27 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 2:16:11 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 4:56:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 5:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:35:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

On 7/14/2019 5:09 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 5:41:27 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 2:16:11 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 17:25:05 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 4:56:16 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 5:52 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 13:35:09 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate — down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.

Right Tom, more from America!

Do you remember when they were building the bridge across the bay and
someone complained about why they were buying steel from China? And
the answer was that the steel structures were not available in the
U.S.

Do you know that the largest investor in U.S. government bonds, of all
the countries in the world, is China. Some 1.11 Trillion dollars
worth. Which is to say that the U.S. owes China 1.11 trillion dollars.
As of January, 2019 there was approximately $1.70 trillion in U.S.
currency in circulation. So the U.S. owes China an amount equal to 65%
of all the U.S. currency in circulation.

Can you guess what would be the effect of China demanding that the
U.S. pay up?

Do you know anything?

--
cheers,

John B.


It's not an accident. There's no reason in hell China
should be in WTO or granted MFN. A decasdes long pattern of
predatory behavior centered on IP theft and administrative
barriers more draconian than tariffs coonclude China's
pattern of never in any instance complying with any treaty,
military or commercial.

And yet they do indeed have cash to throw around, enough to
build a Navy with a long range plan to use it. All financed
by my neighbors who can't resist 23c off for a crappy
WalMart gadget with a US flag on it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

You're correct about the Most Favored Nation status. John doesn't seem to understand
that not only does the US have the capability of making steel but the
necessary skills at making BETTER steel. There was absolutely NO
REASON that China should have been awarded the Oakland Bay Bridge
contract. Firstly the bids with the American company were almost
identical. And then after they got the contract the Chinese company
redesigned the structure and more than doubled their original contract
price. After it was completed every single piece of steel in the
bridge was substantially sub-standard. Even the suspension wires are
below standard plus they ends were improperly capped and the rain that
we had flooded the suspension wires so that they are showing rust.

Tom, I find that very difficult to believe unless you are rally saying
hat the people who were talked with overseeing the construction of the
bridge were incompetent or taking bribes.

And I am saying that from experience with a number of international
oil companies. They demand, and check, detail's of the materials
supplied and all the work accomplished. For example, I once
constructed some 15 miles of gas pipe line and as part of the contract
was required to supply all design specifications and physical layout,
specifications of the pipe and the material the pipe was made from had
to be supplied, every welder had to be certified as competent by a
3rd party inspector, the welding rod was specified by the company,
every weld was required to be marked for identification and x-rayed
and the films had to be furnished to the company. The pressure tests
were witnessed by both the" company man" and a 3rd party inspector,
and finally after it was built, it had to have an operational test
where we pumped water through the line and pressure readings were
taken at both the inlet and outlet.

And, I might add, this was/is a standard practice in the business.

And you are telling me that the California department of whoever
didn't do this?

or are you lying again?

--
cheers,

John B.

Now I don't even believe that you were a construction foreman.

Tom, hate to tell you but nobody gives a rats ass what you think.
You've lied and than weaseled your way out by changing the subject and
going off at a tangent and insulting those that don't believe the
lurid fantasies that you post as facts.

In fact I would black-list you except that you apparently voted for
Trump and it is interesting ( in a sick sort of way) to watch the
antics of one of his supporters.
--
cheers,

John B.

Seems to me that you must care give a rats ass what Tom thinks or you wouldn't be posting so many replies to him. VBEG LOL ;)

Cheers

I agree that I probably do post an excessive number of replies to Tom.
But I find it interesting to see just how far he will squirm to avoid
admitting that he really did post some utter B.S.

I also find it interesting to see just how far fetched some of his
fantasies are. Given that the U.S. education system is far from being
the worst in the world I would have considered it very unlikely that
anyone educated in the U.S. could deny history to the extent that Tom
does.
--
cheers,

John B.

5 pages in this topic if one accesses the group via Google Groups but about 14 replies were related to the topic - "O Long Tubulars". Topic drift is one thing but 4. something pages of mostly totally off-topic responses? It's very common on this newsgroup for that to happen. Too bad too as it makes searching a right royal pain in the butt when one wants an informative reply. I think it's a primary reason that the rec.bicycles Usenet groups are dying or dead. Take a look at rec.bicycles.social, rec.bicycles.misc, rec.bicycles.marketplace to see some of the virtually dead Usenet groups.

Cheers



Naturally. They don't have you!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate  down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are makin
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate  down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out.. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are makin
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.

On 7/14/2019 2:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot


Seems to me that you must care give a rats ass what Tom thinks or you wouldn't be posting so many replies to him. VBEG LOL ;)

Cheers

I agree that I probably do post an excessive number of replies to Tom.
But I find it interesting to see just how far he will squirm to avoid
admitting that he really did post some utter B.S.

I also find it interesting to see just how far fetched some of his
fantasies are. Given that the U.S. education system is far from being
the worst in the world I would have considered it very unlikely that
anyone educated in the U.S. could deny history to the extent that Tom
does.

The US has a long and fraught relationship with intellectual rigor. For
all its advancements in public education, there has been and remains a
strong and stubborn anti-intellectual thread in its history. I'm not
talking about anti-intellectualism that improperly appreciates art, I'm
talking about anti-intellectualism that, at its more extreme ends, still
insists the earth is flat. Look at any current newspaper to fill in the
gap between those extremes. A great many USians could take a long walk
in the sea of knowledge and barely get their feet wet, at least if you
believe they mean half the things they say.

Speaking as someone who spent his career in US higher education, you can
educate the ignorant, sometimes you can educate against stupidity, but
you just can't educate against willful ignorance - which fortunately I
saw relatively little of at a selective private university.

Mark J.

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate  down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are mak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate  down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are mak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:33:27 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 7/14/2019 2:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 05:14:22 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot


Seems to me that you must care give a rats ass what Tom thinks or you wouldn't be posting so many replies to him. VBEG LOL ;)

Cheers

I agree that I probably do post an excessive number of replies to Tom.
But I find it interesting to see just how far he will squirm to avoid
admitting that he really did post some utter B.S.

I also find it interesting to see just how far fetched some of his
fantasies are. Given that the U.S. education system is far from being
the worst in the world I would have considered it very unlikely that
anyone educated in the U.S. could deny history to the extent that Tom
does.

The US has a long and fraught relationship with intellectual rigor. For
all its advancements in public education, there has been and remains a
strong and stubborn anti-intellectual thread in its history. I'm not
talking about anti-intellectualism that improperly appreciates art, I'm
talking about anti-intellectualism that, at its more extreme ends, still
insists the earth is flat. Look at any current newspaper to fill in the
gap between those extremes. A great many USians could take a long walk
in the sea of knowledge and barely get their feet wet, at least if you
believe they mean half the things they say.

Speaking as someone who spent his career in US higher education, you can
educate the ignorant, sometimes you can educate against stupidity, but
you just can't educate against willful ignorance - which fortunately I
saw relatively little of at a selective private university.

Mark J.
:-) I just read, in a novel, that, "the worst lies are told by those
that believe that they are right" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On 7/14/2019 8:41 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 19:44:42 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/14/2019 6:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 4:33:02 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 9:47:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/14/2019 3:22 AM, wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 5:24:57 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2019 4:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:35:11 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 1:13:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 8:52:26 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/11/2019 8:26 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:39:03 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 7/11/2019 5:44 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:01:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 5:59:53 PM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:

so here is a quote that Brandt
made back in the glory days:

. Oh, you mean this guy:

Thomas H Munich, Born: Oct 1944
3539 Monterey Blvd
San Alejandro CA94578
510) 351-3807

http://tinyurl.com/8rwo2

I thought we had gotten over him, now that we have other
contributors who are equally rude and obnoxious, always carping
while offering no useful information. A few names come to mind.

Jobs Brandt

, DEC 26, 2005


Kind of unrelated to the content of this thread. But looking at this Jobst quote, the guy he is complaining about is only 61 when written. I am pretty sure ALL of the dirty old *******s I ride with are at least that old. I'm the youngster, and I'm not that young anymore. Sadly. Its very depressing that everyone is so F---ing old now.

Yes, he was born in 1944 and is this year 75 years old and as a
general statement males seem to become more garrulous with age, and
Brandt describes the chap as being rude, obnoxious and always
carping, which appear to be an apt description today. :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.


"equally rude and obnoxious, always carping"

Huh I was thinking Joe Biden who will turn 77 this year.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. born November 20, 1942, ex V.P

I read that:

"Whatever else one thinks of Joe Biden, the speech he delivered in New
York on Thursday showed him to be the only Democratic candidate with
his own vision on foreign policy and a full understanding of just how
badly President Donald Trump's vision is damaging U.S. interests and
values around the world."
_________________________

From here it is easy to see the results of the Trump "foreign policy"
in other countries and one thing that is happening is that more and
more exports, and likely imports, from at least Thailand and Cambodia
are going to China now as opposed to the U.S. And China is funneling
money into both countries both in the form of low cost loans and by
opening manufacturing businesses which, of course, contributes to the
local economy both in the form of taxes and by employing more locals.

Even Australia, the news yesterday recently, is considering developing
nuclear weapons as the U.S. foreign policy seems to be very "wobbly"
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/17...uclear-weapons



I see in today's paper that for 2019 US imports from China
are down 13% while imports from ROK are up 13%, from ROC up
23%, from Vietnam up 37% and so on.

Only one of the aforementioned countries has four
supercarrier keels down with a goal of challenging USN.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

My website search has a slightly different number.

"The Associated Press reported Friday that Chinese imports from the U.S. were down 31.4 percent from the same time last year, U.S. imports from China dropped by a far lower rate  down just 7.8 percent over last year."

So it seems Trump has made the trade war much worse with his actions. We are hurting China by buying 7.8% less of their goods. Yeah Trump. But hurting USA companies even more by selling 31.4% less to China. I'm sure for 3-4 time bankrupt Trump that means he is winning. Cut off China's pinky finger. Cut off the USA hand. Winning!!!

Another economist steps forward with his educated ideas. We are buying less from China because Americans are buying more from America. This probably is something you cannot fathom. Moreover, since we are keeping more money in America we have less need to sell to foreign countries.

That doesn't even make sense. We're not buying significantly more American products because most of the products from China apart from steel are no longer manufactured here, like most things at Walmart. We're now buying that stuff from ROC, Vietnam, Toadsuckistan -- or the same Chinese stuff is being rerouted through those countries. Just as much money is leaving the country, but its going different places. And more money is leaving American pockets to pay the tariffs. http://money.com/money/5646202/costc...ina-trade-war/ Also, tell the farmers about "not needing" to sell to foreign countries. Your tax dollars are now bailing them out. More farm welfare to promote over-production.

BTW, you don't have any idea of how quickly a US-based company can shift production to another country. Your MAGA hat and Donald Trump tie are now made in Viet Nam instead of China. I ride regularly with two executives who have domestic companies with manufacturing in China. For one, it took only a few months to shift the whole operation to Viet Nam.

China should be spanked for its anti-competitive conduct and misappropriation of US IP, but don't think the dopey tariff war is the way to do it. Tariffs are just how Trump is filling budget holes with the massive reduction in the corporate rate and other give-aways to the rich and famous. Once again, ordinary Joe pays.

-- Jay Beattie.







China HAS made a commitment to partake seriously in trade treaty negotiations.

It's plain that you don't understand anything about anything like all of the other idiot millennials.


+1 nicely done.

That said, what do you suggest after several successive
POTUSes and Congresses have ignored the problems? As with
the open-border mess, he's left with only a hammer which
doesn't make the problem into a nail; he just likes pounding.

I don't have an answer either, but to the extent that Xi
doesn't like tariffs and the domestic China economy has
weakened, I'll reflect on it before screaming.


Andy, how much of your business is Chinese? I don't mean selling to Chinese customers or employing Chinese bike mechanics. But of all the products you sell, how much is made in China? I think almost all Shimano products are Chinese made. FSA and most of the other brands are Chinese. I think Campagnolo makes their stuff in China too. Except for a few boutique high dollar frames, China. Tires and tubes are China. I think Korea, Thailand, Vietnam get some of the business too. The parts portion of the bike industry is Chinese. Love it, hate it. But that is reality today. Your service sales are USA. Guessing you are not employing too many illegal immigrants who snuck down from Canada. And that kind of illustrates a big trend in USA business over the past number of decades. USA exports to the rest of the world is services. Not manufactured products. We are selling minds and ideas and services and people. Not factory stuff. The cheap dumb backward countries are m
ak
in
g
the stuff. I've seen articles on the trade imbalance. When you add in services the USA sells to the rest of the world, the trade imbalance drops a lot. Its not much of an imbalance at all. But that does not make as good a headline and isn't as easy to grasp for the uneducated masses. "THEY sell more stuff to us than THEY buy from us. Bad bad bad."


Less than you imagine.

None of our own products are made in China now. For only
$11,000 I replaced a $3000 chinese injection mold tool with
one made 25 miles from here four years ago. That ended our
final China vendor[1].

Vredestein tubes are probably made in Netherlands (packaging
is unclear). Michelin are Serbia and Thailand. Campagnolo is
Italy & Romania with wheels from Taiwan ROC. Shimano from
Japan & Malaysia. I spend a very small amount of time
consciously choosing Taiwan ROC product over PRC wherever I
can, such as Sun Race and Kenda product.

Waterford/Gunnar and SOMA are non-Chinese but Bianchi sadly
has some in the mix now. Which is very noticeable at build
between PRC and ROC bikes BTW.

Could a guy make a few extra $$ selling PRC product over
Velocity USA & SOMA rims? Sure. And I don't judge them. For
me, it's not worthwhile.

[1] It's not all patriotism. Over 15 or so years I was
unable to find one honest man doing business in The Middle
Kingdom. Not the only factor but an expensive one.



I got an email that I had received some of those rear derailleur jockey wheels from China. Damned if I could find them. I had received several packages that day but not those parts.

When I contacted the vendor in China essentially what he said was "We sent it to the address given and USPS said they delivered it." I was about to get mad and file a complaint. But then I thought - there was so little money involved and those people in the PRC have so little I'm not going to complain. A couple of days later I saw a small plastic envelope sticking between the sofa cushions and it was my order. It must have been between two of the large packages and fallen into the crack.

The moral is, don't be too fast to judge.


"We need another run of that product"
"You need to cut a new tool"
"But we own a tool, you made it a year ago"
"Uh, we lost it. You need a new one"

I bought a Bob Jackson for my oldest step-daughter from Stone's Cyclery in Alameda in the late 90's. She took it across the US and also ran the Jr. Nationals one year.

It's been sitting out in a shed for the last 20 years or so and the headset was seized solid. I took TriFlow and a hammer to it to free it up enough to take in to Robinson's Wheelworks in town here. Robby started out as apprentice to Dennis Stone. I bought a replacement headset and took it with the BJ into Robby's to have it replaced.

Without even looking he knew that the headset was 27.2 (?) and that the normal headset base is 26.8 (? those sure sound like seat posts to me but what the heck). Robby STILL has the tools made in 1070's to face BJ's down to the standard size. All of his tools look like they are brand new. All of the cutting edges you have to be careful with or they will cut you.

Would you rather buy a tool good for 2 years and then needs replacement or one that is like new after 50 years? I can't even get decent metric hex wrenches anymore. I still have some old Snap-on ratchet ends that look like new. All of the stuff I buy now rounds off to the point that I don't like using them on bicycles.


I am no stranger to purchase, care, sharpening, TiN coatings
and storage of expensive machine cutters:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

Question: Did you have those "plated" (for want of a better word) and
is so what is the cost? And is the cost based on square inches to be
covered?

I am assuming that you would deliver the tool reasonably clean and
they would do some sort of "super cleaning" prior to "plating".

A 500,000-cycle plastic injection mold tool is really
expensive. Never ever had one 'lost' in Japan or USA. The
client's tool is normally stored between runs as part of the
normal business.
--
cheers,

John B.


They go from the sharpening service directly to the vapor
deposition house. It's titanium nitride of few microns or so
about $30 per piece. Beyond that for a higher fee you can
buy other even harder coatings now.

typical example:
http://www.praxairsurfacetechnologie...por-deposition

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971