torque wrench issues

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:42:30 PM UTC-7, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 2:27:07 PM UTC-4, David Scheidt wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
:Snap-on is a tool manufacturer that sells top grade tools, and very
:expensive tools they are too. They also own at least one company that
:makes and sells a cheaper brand.

:They guarantee their tools.

No. They don't. They pretend to. The actual warranty is crap, and
conditional on continuing to spend money with them, and good will with
your local pusher.


--
sig 40

Sounds like PAARK TOOLS when I told them about two tools I had of theirs that broke after little use. When I bought those tools I was told Park had a lifetime warranty. Park told me there was only a limited warranty and those two tools didn't meet it. based on that experience I now look for less expensive tools and tools other than Park.


I've never owned a Part Tool tool as I always thought that they were
over priced but I do see a lot of professional shops using their stuff
so I've always assumed that it didn't break too often.

But most of them are constructed as cheaply as possible. The LBS had a Park tool for removing the headset lower race from a fork. When they put it on my Colnago fork it didn't pull the race off straight and bent it.

The bearing race actually bent? I'd say that was a faulty race, or at
least I've never seen a ball or roller bearing race that would bend.
Break yes, but not bend.


It also bent the race clamps on the dumb-ass tool. The wheel spoking stand is WAY more elaborate than necessary and in order for it to work properly you should clamp it on a work table rather than let it sit there despite it's 30 lb weight. The repair stand is much improved but the quick release has to be adjusted for each individual sized top tube. The "normal"cycling wrenches look too narrow so it makes you nervous to use them. They are hardened enough and they work but you can cut slots in a bolt trying to use them instead of a full width open end.

I'd always assumed that the thin wrenches were bearing adjustment
wrenches that needed to be thin to properly tighten wheel bearing
inner races and lock nuts.

So there are better tools on the market but not from a single manufacturer.

On 4/25/2017 8:28 PM, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:42:30 PM UTC-7, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 2:27:07 PM UTC-4, David Scheidt wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
:Snap-on is a tool manufacturer that sells top grade tools, and very
:expensive tools they are too. They also own at least one company that
:makes and sells a cheaper brand.

:They guarantee their tools.

No. They don't. They pretend to. The actual warranty is crap, and
conditional on continuing to spend money with them, and good will with
your local pusher.


--
sig 40

Sounds like PAARK TOOLS when I told them about two tools I had of theirs that broke after little use. When I bought those tools I was told Park had a lifetime warranty. Park told me there was only a limited warranty and those two tools didn't meet it. based on that experience I now look for less expensive tools and tools other than Park.


I've never owned a Part Tool tool as I always thought that they were
over priced but I do see a lot of professional shops using their stuff
so I've always assumed that it didn't break too often.

But most of them are constructed as cheaply as possible. The LBS had a Park tool for removing the headset lower race from a fork. When they put it on my Colnago fork it didn't pull the race off straight and bent it.

The bearing race actually bent? I'd say that was a faulty race, or at
least I've never seen a ball or roller bearing race that would bend.
Break yes, but not bend.


It also bent the race clamps on the dumb-ass tool. The wheel spoking stand is WAY more elaborate than necessary and in order for it to work properly you should clamp it on a work table rather than let it sit there despite it's 30 lb weight. The repair stand is much improved but the quick release has to be adjusted for each individual sized top tube. The "normal"cycling wrenches look too narrow so it makes you nervous to use them. They are hardened enough and they work but you can cut slots in a bolt trying to use them instead of a full width open end.

I'd always assumed that the thin wrenches were bearing adjustment
wrenches that needed to be thin to properly tighten wheel bearing
inner races and lock nuts.

So there are better tools on the market but not from a single manufacturer.

Modern fork crown 'races' are actually aluminum taper
section seats for a cartridge bearing with angled
interfaces. This is our preferred tool:
http://www.hozan.co.jp/cycle_e/catalog/C440.html

very nicely made, easy to use.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 6:48:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/25/2017 8:28 PM, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:42:30 PM UTC-7, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 2:27:07 PM UTC-4, David Scheidt wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
:Snap-on is a tool manufacturer that sells top grade tools, and very
:expensive tools they are too. They also own at least one company that
:makes and sells a cheaper brand.

:They guarantee their tools.

No. They don't. They pretend to. The actual warranty is crap, and
conditional on continuing to spend money with them, and good will with
your local pusher.


--
sig 40

Sounds like PAARK TOOLS when I told them about two tools I had of theirs that broke after little use. When I bought those tools I was told Park had a lifetime warranty. Park told me there was only a limited warranty and those two tools didn't meet it. based on that experience I now look for less expensive tools and tools other than Park.


I've never owned a Part Tool tool as I always thought that they were
over priced but I do see a lot of professional shops using their stuff
so I've always assumed that it didn't break too often.

But most of them are constructed as cheaply as possible. The LBS had a Park tool for removing the headset lower race from a fork. When they put it on my Colnago fork it didn't pull the race off straight and bent it.

The bearing race actually bent? I'd say that was a faulty race, or at
least I've never seen a ball or roller bearing race that would bend.
Break yes, but not bend.


It also bent the race clamps on the dumb-ass tool. The wheel spoking stand is WAY more elaborate than necessary and in order for it to work properly you should clamp it on a work table rather than let it sit there despite it's 30 lb weight. The repair stand is much improved but the quick release has to be adjusted for each individual sized top tube. The "normal"cycling wrenches look too narrow so it makes you nervous to use them. They are hardened enough and they work but you can cut slots in a bolt trying to use them instead of a full width open end.

I'd always assumed that the thin wrenches were bearing adjustment
wrenches that needed to be thin to properly tighten wheel bearing
inner races and lock nuts.

So there are better tools on the market but not from a single manufacturer.

Modern fork crown 'races' are actually aluminum taper
section seats for a cartridge bearing with angled
interfaces. This is our preferred tool:
http://www.hozan.co.jp/cycle_e/catalog/C440.html

very nicely made, easy to use.

You would think they could afford a real translator -- and not just Google translate:


"This tool is designed for only removing ball race which is one of head parts. It enables to remove the ball race surely, neither giving a damage to the ball race nor the fork crown."

Okey-dokey.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 4/25/2017 5:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 12:56:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 7:07:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

It sounds like the shop screwed up using the race remover tool. You can remove a race with a screw-driver if you're careful.

Not on flush mounted races (really not a race but more a spacer). I watched him use it and he didn't appear to make any errors.

The truing stand is hardly complex. I've owned the same one for about 40 years. I bought a base for it and use it on any flat surface. The only problem is that I need to adjust the centering, which has gotten a little sloppy. I always check with a dishing tool, so it's no big deal.

I got all my tools wholesale but even then it was expensive for a tool that must be mounted on a bench.

Many Park tools are cheap-ish feeling, particularly compared to Campy tools. Then again, they're perfectly adequate. The headset setting tool is very nice and way less expensive than the Campy tool. It's also mostly unnecessary these days. I use it for installing press-in BB bearings. Park was what you got when you couldn't afford Campy. It was also more available than Var and some of the other European tools which had a better fit and finish than the Park tools.

I'd forgotten about Campy tools. All that I've used were wonderful. But I don't know about the modern Made in China Campy tools. Perhaps this is part of why they are evolving designs that use no special tools.

It seems that the special tools are becoming fewer in number but more complex and smaller. http://tinyurl.com/m7sq4kk No giant headset wrenches but more unusual designs for proprietary parts that will be gone in three or four product generations.

.... or about as long as Nehru suits were fashionable.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 7:42:47 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2017 5:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 12:56:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 7:07:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

It sounds like the shop screwed up using the race remover tool. You can remove a race with a screw-driver if you're careful.

Not on flush mounted races (really not a race but more a spacer). I watched him use it and he didn't appear to make any errors.

The truing stand is hardly complex. I've owned the same one for about 40 years. I bought a base for it and use it on any flat surface. The only problem is that I need to adjust the centering, which has gotten a little sloppy. I always check with a dishing tool, so it's no big deal.

I got all my tools wholesale but even then it was expensive for a tool that must be mounted on a bench.

Many Park tools are cheap-ish feeling, particularly compared to Campy tools. Then again, they're perfectly adequate. The headset setting tool is very nice and way less expensive than the Campy tool. It's also mostly unnecessary these days. I use it for installing press-in BB bearings. Park was what you got when you couldn't afford Campy. It was also more available than Var and some of the other European tools which had a better fit and finish than the Park tools.

I'd forgotten about Campy tools. All that I've used were wonderful. But I don't know about the modern Made in China Campy tools. Perhaps this is part of why they are evolving designs that use no special tools.

It seems that the special tools are becoming fewer in number but more complex and smaller. http://tinyurl.com/m7sq4kk No giant headset wrenches but more unusual designs for proprietary parts that will be gone in three or four product generations.

... or about as long as Nehru suits were fashionable.

You mean Nehru suits are no longer fashionable? Crap! I've got to go change into my bell-bottoms.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 07:16:04 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 7:42:47 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2017 5:08 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 12:56:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 7:07:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

It sounds like the shop screwed up using the race remover tool. You can remove a race with a screw-driver if you're careful.

Not on flush mounted races (really not a race but more a spacer). I watched him use it and he didn't appear to make any errors.

The truing stand is hardly complex. I've owned the same one for about 40 years. I bought a base for it and use it on any flat surface. The only problem is that I need to adjust the centering, which has gotten a little sloppy. I always check with a dishing tool, so it's no big deal.

I got all my tools wholesale but even then it was expensive for a tool that must be mounted on a bench.

Many Park tools are cheap-ish feeling, particularly compared to Campy tools. Then again, they're perfectly adequate. The headset setting tool is very nice and way less expensive than the Campy tool. It's also mostly unnecessary these days. I use it for installing press-in BB bearings. Park was what you got when you couldn't afford Campy. It was also more available than Var and some of the other European tools which had a better fit and finish than the Park tools.

I'd forgotten about Campy tools. All that I've used were wonderful. But I don't know about the modern Made in China Campy tools. Perhaps this is part of why they are evolving designs that use no special tools.

It seems that the special tools are becoming fewer in number but more complex and smaller. http://tinyurl.com/m7sq4kk No giant headset wrenches but more unusual designs for proprietary parts that will be gone in three or four product generations.

... or about as long as Nehru suits were fashionable.

You mean Nehru suits are no longer fashionable? Crap! I've got to go change into my bell-bottoms.

-- Jay Beattie.
You still see quite a few in certain areas of Pa, Ohio, Indiana, and
Wisconsin

On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 6:28:47 PM UTC-7, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 06:44:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 5:42:30 PM UTC-7, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:16:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 2:27:07 PM UTC-4, David Scheidt wrote:
John B Slocomb wrote:
:Snap-on is a tool manufacturer that sells top grade tools, and very
:expensive tools they are too. They also own at least one company that
:makes and sells a cheaper brand.

:They guarantee their tools.

No. They don't. They pretend to. The actual warranty is crap, and
conditional on continuing to spend money with them, and good will with
your local pusher.


--
sig 40

Sounds like PAARK TOOLS when I told them about two tools I had of theirs that broke after little use. When I bought those tools I was told Park had a lifetime warranty. Park told me there was only a limited warranty and those two tools didn't meet it. based on that experience I now look for less expensive tools and tools other than Park.


I've never owned a Part Tool tool as I always thought that they were
over priced but I do see a lot of professional shops using their stuff
so I've always assumed that it didn't break too often.

But most of them are constructed as cheaply as possible. The LBS had a Park tool for removing the headset lower race from a fork. When they put it on my Colnago fork it didn't pull the race off straight and bent it.

The bearing race actually bent? I'd say that was a faulty race, or at
least I've never seen a ball or roller bearing race that would bend.
Break yes, but not bend.


It also bent the race clamps on the dumb-ass tool. The wheel spoking stand is WAY more elaborate than necessary and in order for it to work properly you should clamp it on a work table rather than let it sit there despite it's 30 lb weight. The repair stand is much improved but the quick release has to be adjusted for each individual sized top tube. The "normal"cycling wrenches look too narrow so it makes you nervous to use them. They are hardened enough and they work but you can cut slots in a bolt trying to use them instead of a full width open end.

I'd always assumed that the thin wrenches were bearing adjustment
wrenches that needed to be thin to properly tighten wheel bearing
inner races and lock nuts.

So there are better tools on the market but not from a single manufacturer.

The tool looks like a long pipe. At one end is a clamp arrangement for pushing tapered fittings under the lower "race" which really isn't a race but a fitting to cover the sealed bearing on the Chris King headset. The opposite end has a screw to push on the top of the steerer.

You really can't do anything wrong but not close the clamp enough and he didn't do that. The race was simply too tight on the fork which appeared to have expanded over the top of the race after installation.

As is the case with most carbon forks you cannot tap the fitting off because the entire race is smaller in diameter than the top of the fork and fits tightly against the fork