rear-facing dropouts

Today there was a gorgeous open-frame steel
bike from the 60s or 70s, with the favorite
635 tires.

The only wrench in the machinery is that it has
rear-facing dropouts, and the o-bolts to grab
the rear wheel axle to tighten the chain were
missing. If it ever had any! Or were they
always there on such bikes?

I think such, now exotic spare parts can be
difficult to find... Can you get away
without them?

I read [1] that on track bikes, also with
rear-facing dropouts, they don't have them (the
o-bolts). But I suppose people set the tension
before every race! I also read that track bikes
do not have QRs, because "threaded nuts will
hold the chain tension far longer", and that
such bikes have a more robust, 1/8in chain.
I bring this up because it seems to contradict
what was said in another thread that QR is
stronger than nuts. Obviously, people don't
race track bikes as others do commuters!
Unless I'm missing something else (I never even
saw a track bike IRL).

BTW aren't all nuts "threaded"? Except those
who participate in reality TV shows...

[1] page 188 in
@book{complete-road-bike-maintenance,
author = {Guy Andrews},
ISBN = {978 1 4081 7093 9},
publisher = {Bloomsbury},
title = {Complete Road Bike Maintenance},
year = 2013
}

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 6:59:59 AM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Today there was a gorgeous open-frame steel
bike from the 60s or 70s, with the favorite
635 tires.

The only wrench in the machinery is that it has
rear-facing dropouts, and the o-bolts to grab
the rear wheel axle to tighten the chain were
missing. If it ever had any! Or were they
always there on such bikes?

I think such, now exotic spare parts can be
difficult to find... Can you get away
without them?

I read [1] that on track bikes, also with
rear-facing dropouts, they don't have them (the
o-bolts). But I suppose people set the tension
before every race! I also read that track bikes
do not have QRs, because "threaded nuts will
hold the chain tension far longer", and that
such bikes have a more robust, 1/8in chain.
I bring this up because it seems to contradict
what was said in another thread that QR is
stronger than nuts. Obviously, people don't
race track bikes as others do commuters!
Unless I'm missing something else (I never even
saw a track bike IRL).

BTW aren't all nuts "threaded"? Except those
who participate in reality TV shows...

[1] page 188 in
@book{complete-road-bike-maintenance,
author = {Guy Andrews},
ISBN = {978 1 4081 7093 9},
publisher = {Bloomsbury},
title = {Complete Road Bike Maintenance},
year = 2013
}

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Rearward facing slots for holding the rear wheel in place are called TRACK ENDS not dropout.

No, the thread bolt with washer and nut to go on the threaded axle of a coaster brake or 3-speed bicycle aren't mandatory. they were mostly used to make it easier to replace the wheel in the same location it was in before removal for changing a tube or tire.

Track bicycles can have every bit as much strain on the drivetrain as any derailleur equipped bicycle. Since most rack bicycle racing is done on an indoor track there is not the same need for a quick release as there is on a road bicycle racing on the road where there is a lot more chance of getting a puncture and thus needing to QUICKLY change the wheel.

I don't know if it's still going on but in recent years there was quite the movement of bicyclists using fixed gear or track bicycles for commuting due to the simplicity of such bicycles i.e. no derailleurs or shifters ,or (in a lot of cases) brake levers and brake calipers.

Cheers

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 1:13:48 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Rearward facing slots for holding the rear wheel in place are called TRACK ENDS not dropout.

Is there a reason, besides the common use of hub gearboxes, so many Dutch commuters these days have track ends rather than dropouts?

Andre Jute
The greatest icon ever is -- ?

Andre Jute wrote:

Is there a reason, besides the common use of
hub gearboxes, so many Dutch commuters these
days have track ends rather than dropouts?

Must be some modern thing because here at least
the Torpedo 2 (Duomatic), the
Torpedo 3 (Dreigang), as well as the
Torpedo 5 (Pentasport) are all used with
dropouts, and dome nuts, sometimes with holes
in them to allow for the gear chain

I don't see why they wouldn't work with tracks
tho or what influence that would have?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

As for terminology, here is what it says:

Track bikes have rear-facing dropouts and
120mm-space hubs (rather than 130mm of
a road bike). Rear-facing dropouts offer
a stronger and simpler solution to
adjusting chain tension and accommodating
variations in sprocket (gear) sizes.

Page 188,

@book{complete-road-bike-maintenance,
author = {Guy Andrews},
ISBN = {978 1 4081 7093 9},
publisher = {Bloomsbury},
title = {Complete Road Bike Maintenance},
year = 2013
}

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 10/24/2018 9:37 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
As for terminology, here is what it says:

Track bikes have rear-facing dropouts and
120mm-space hubs (rather than 130mm of
a road bike). Rear-facing dropouts offer
a stronger and simpler solution to
adjusting chain tension and accommodating
variations in sprocket (gear) sizes.

Page 188,

@book{complete-road-bike-maintenance,
author = {Guy Andrews},
ISBN = {978 1 4081 7093 9},
publisher = {Bloomsbury},
title = {Complete Road Bike Maintenance},
year = 2013
}


Nonsense.

There's no functional difference for chain tension or
gearing between this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/mer11b.jpg
and this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/endaxis.jpg

Author probably meant to contrast single-point ends; either
composed badly or you snipped the relevant part.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:

Nonsense.

There's no functional difference for chain
tension or gearing between this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/mer11b.jpg
and this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/endaxis.jpg

Author probably meant to contrast
single-point ends; either composed badly or
you snipped the relevant part.

It is an exact quote of an entire paragraph.
The paragraph before that is about QR vs. nuts;
the paragraph after is about 1/8in chain vs
3/32in.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 4:55:46 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/24/2018 9:37 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
As for terminology, here is what it says:

Track bikes have rear-facing dropouts and
120mm-space hubs (rather than 130mm of
a road bike). Rear-facing dropouts offer
a stronger and simpler solution to
adjusting chain tension and accommodating
variations in sprocket (gear) sizes.

Page 188,

@book{complete-road-bike-maintenance,
author = {Guy Andrews},
ISBN = {978 1 4081 7093 9},
publisher = {Bloomsbury},
title = {Complete Road Bike Maintenance},
year = 2013
}


Nonsense.

There's no functional difference for chain tension or
gearing between this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...ast/mer11b.jpg
and this:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/endaxis.jpg

Hell, yes, of course there is a difference between rear facing and forward facing slots. The weight of the chain cannot pull the wheel out of the slot while you're trying to fix it with rear facing slots, whereas with forward facing slots you need a second person to hold the wheel in the slot while you turn the spanner.

Andre Jute
In real life people don't have a third, fourth and fifth hand. Well, my bonobo often seemed to be quadridexterous, but they were chimps, not bicyclists.

On 10/24/18 3:59 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 1:13:48 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

Rearward facing slots for holding the rear wheel in place are
called TRACK ENDS not dropout.

Is there a reason, besides the common use of hub gearboxes, so many
Dutch commuters these days have track ends rather than dropouts?

Stops the rear wheel falling off.

Tosspot wrote:

Is there a reason, besides the common use of
hub gearboxes, so many Dutch commuters these
days have track ends rather than dropouts?

Stops the rear wheel falling off.

Is this a joke or do you mean if the nuts come
loose the chain will still hold the wheel to
make time for an emergency stop?

Yeah, what *are* the "functional difference[s]"
between track ends and dropouts? I always
considered dropouts better and more modern but
now that I think about it I don't know how or
why I came to that.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573