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Threadless steerer question
Why is the top cap on a threadless headset used to maintain pressure
on the bearings? It seems the bolts that hold the stem in place should be plenty adequate to do that. Is there a good reason (other than having to buy spacers) that a top cap must be used? If a quill stem is adequate on most bikes, surely the clamping of the stem to the steerer tube is at least as strong as that... My cannondale MTB does not use a top cap because the shock absorber is built into the head tube. The only thing that maintains bearing pressure and keeps the fork from falling out are the bolts on the stem. What's the deal? Thanks, TD |
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#2
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Threadless steerer question
On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:46:18 -0500, hmmmm hmmmm wrote:
Why is the top cap on a threadless headset used to maintain pressure on the bearings? It seems the bolts that hold the stem in place should be plenty adequate to do that. Is there a good reason (other than having to buy spacers) that a top cap must be used? If a quill stem is adequate on most bikes, surely the clamping of the stem to the steerer tube is at least as strong as that... My cannondale MTB does not use a top cap because the shock absorber is built into the head tube. The only thing that maintains bearing pressure and keeps the fork from falling out are the bolts on the stem. What's the deal? My understanding is that the cap just makes it easy to dial in some preload and take up the slack. You don't need the cap, it just makes adjustment much easier. I'm sure Sheldon has a page. BTW, which Cannon have you got and how cool is that fork? Ron |
#3
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Threadless steerer question
someone writes:
Why is the top cap on a threadless headset used to maintain pressure on the bearings? It seems the bolts that hold the stem in place should be plenty adequate to do that. Is there a good reason (other than having to buy spacers) that a top cap must be used? Because ball bearing adjustment is a relatively precise process, having a screw to bring the preload into the correct range is desirable. You don't need to use it but I recommend it. I find this feature convenient and useful for my use. If a quill stem is adequate on most bikes, surely the clamping of the stem to the steerer tube is at least as strong as that... http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/t...s-headset.html My Cannondale MTB does not use a top cap because the shock absorber is built into the head tube. The only thing that maintains bearing pressure and keeps the fork from falling out are the bolts on the stem. That's after the correct play has been adjusted. A little preload is desirable. What's the deal? The moving force behind the threadless steertube was the broad handled MTB bars that in some cases cause stem failure and obviously flexed the stem from side-to-side. For those who have not had a stem failure, this doesn't seem to pose a threat but as a manufacturer, I would prefer not to expose my brand to that possibility, one that has occurred. Jobst Brandt |
#4
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Threadless steerer question
hmmmm wrote: Why is the top cap on a threadless headset used to maintain pressure on the bearings? It seems the bolts that hold the stem in place should be plenty adequate to do that. Is there a good reason (other than having to buy spacers) that a top cap must be used? If a quill stem is adequate on most bikes, surely the clamping of the stem to the steerer tube is at least as strong as that... My cannondale MTB does not use a top cap because the shock absorber is built into the head tube. The only thing that maintains bearing pressure and keeps the fork from falling out are the bolts on the stem. What's the deal? Thanks, TD it doesn't maintain the pressure. it helps to set the pressure. the stem (bolts) keep the pressure in tact. e-RICHIE |
#5
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Threadless steerer question
hmmmm Wrote: Why is the top cap on a threadless headset used to maintain pressure on the bearings? It seems the bolts that hold the stem in place should be plenty adequate to do that. Is there a good reason (other than having to buy spacers) that a top cap must be used? If a quill stem is adequate on most bikes, surely the clamping of the stem to the steerer tube is at least as strong as that... My cannondale MTB does not use a top cap because the shock absorber is built into the head tube. The only thing that maintains bearing pressure and keeps the fork from falling out are the bolts on the stem. What's the deal? Thanks, TD That Cannondale headset is an entirely different animal. Take the ste off, and the fork will stay put. It is pressed into the bearings, an must be driven out to remove it. Don't try it without the proper tools and instruction though. Da -- Dan Burkhart |
#6
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Threadless steerer question
On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:46:18 -0500, hmmmm hmmmm wrote:
Why is the top cap on a threadless headset used to maintain pressure on the bearings? It isn't. It sets the initial location of the stem relative to the top of the steerer, which will also put the initial load on the headset bearings if everything has been done correctly. Once the stem clamp is tight, the top cap has no further structural function and could be removed without effect. It seems the bolts that hold the stem in place should be plenty adequate to do that. The stem clamp is adequate to keep the stem from moving on the steerer tube, but the clamp does not have any axial motion mechanism in its design; thus, it isn't capable of setting the initial position; something must push it into place. Is there a good reason (other than having to buy spacers) that a top cap must be used? As stated above, yes, until the clamp is tight. If a quill stem is adequate on most bikes, surely the clamping of the stem to the steerer tube is at least as strong as that... Different situation there; the quill stem is used with a threaded headset whose upper nut obviates the need for any other form of headset bearing retention or tensioning mechanism. My cannondale MTB does not use a top cap because the shock absorber is built into the head tube. The only thing that maintains bearing pressure and keeps the fork from falling out are the bolts on the stem. What's the deal? Read the tech details for the HeadShok steerer and the diference should be obvious. That type of steerer does not use the same kind of headset as a conventional threadless steerer. Even more than with the apples-and-oranges comparison of the threaded vs threadless steerers above, the headshok vs threadless comparison is apples and grapes. Those two types of setup have even less in common than threadless vs threaded. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
#7
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Threadless steerer question
My understanding is that the cap just makes it easy to dial in some preload and take up the slack. You don't need the cap, it just makes adjustment much easier. I'm sure Sheldon has a page. He does. I found it a little after posting my original message. His page confirmed what I found by playing with a stem and fork in my garage. A clamp pushed down tight to the headset shim will do the job. Too bad the steerer tube isn't finished. I'll have to paint it to make it look a little better. BTW, which Cannon have you got and how cool is that fork? Its a 96 vintage Super V1000 with a Fatty SL fork. 70 mm travel, air/oil, adjustable rebound damping (with the knob located on the top of the steerer tube, prompting my original question). I like the fork a lot. It is light and there is no twist at all like you can get with forks where the shock elements are in the stanchions. Lock-out would be nice, but I can live with it without. Thanks TD |
#8
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Threadless steerer question
That Cannondale headset is an entirely different animal. Take the stem off, and the fork will stay put. It is pressed into the bearings, and must be driven out to remove it. Don't try it without the proper tools and instruction though. Dan I don't know... I swapped the original elastomer fork for the air/oil fork that's in there now and when I took off the stem, the fork dropped right out. The new fork went right in with no detectable play in the bearings, even after many miles of off-road riding. Thanks, TD |
#9
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Threadless steerer question
Thanks to everyone who replied. I believe I have the answer I was
seeking. TD |
#10
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Threadless steerer question
On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 23:56:34 -0500, hmmmm hmmmm wrote:
My understanding is that the cap just makes it easy to dial in some preload and take up the slack. You don't need the cap, it just makes adjustment much easier. I'm sure Sheldon has a page. He does. I found it a little after posting my original message. His page confirmed what I found by playing with a stem and fork in my garage. A clamp pushed down tight to the headset shim will do the job. Too bad the steerer tube isn't finished. I'll have to paint it to make it look a little better. Sheldon always has a page. It's one of those things I'm beginning to learn to count on, like "google will answer most questions." BTW, which Cannon have you got and how cool is that fork? Its a 96 vintage Super V1000 with a Fatty SL fork. 70 mm travel, air/oil, adjustable rebound damping (with the knob located on the top of the steerer tube, prompting my original question). I like the fork a lot. It is light and there is no twist at all like you can get with forks where the shock elements are in the stanchions. Lock-out would be nice, but I can live with it without. I'm doing preliminary shopping on a XC bike and keep coming across the Cannondales and their odd forks and wanted some real world feed back. It looks like it could be the way to go for that type bike where the fork is really just asked to take the edge off the roots, steer well, not weigh much and otherwise stay out of the way. Thanks, Ron |
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