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Belt Drives - the future?
www.bikebiz.com/news/29367/Carbon-belt-drives-are-standardised
Now that there's a new standard out there, does anything stand in their way? |
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#2
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Belt Drives - the future?
Mark T wrote:
www.bikebiz.com/news/29367/Carbon-belt-drives-are-standardised Now that there's a new standard out there, does anything stand in their way? Initially, inertia from the innate conservatism of the bike market. There will naturally be suspicion of a New! Improved! Thing replacing something that, for all its faults, works pretty well and we're familiar with it. Fixing something that doesn't seem to be borken, in other words. But I think that if it's as good as they say (okay, getting on for almost as good as they say...) then it will gradually appear in more and more bikes, so if it's going to conquer the world I'd expect it to do it like alloy rims replaced steel, rather than overnight. But to start with it does have to be that good, or it will be like DAB replacing FM (or not, as the case seems to be...) Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#3
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Belt Drives - the future?
Peter Clinch wrote:
Mark T wrote: www.bikebiz.com/news/29367/Carbon-belt-drives-are-standardised Now that there's a new standard out there, does anything stand in their way? Initially, inertia from the innate conservatism of the bike market. There will naturally be suspicion of a New! Improved! Thing replacing something that, for all its faults, works pretty well and we're familiar with it. Fixing something that doesn't seem to be borken, in other words. It will be a shame if belt drives just die through the conservatism of the bike market. For a utility bike, a belt makes a lot of sense - no oil and should last longer. I can see how it may work well off-road. I can't see it ending up on race/audax machines (even though it is carbon fibre!), except, possibly, in the recumbent arena. But it will be some years in changing. -- Nigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ |
#4
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Belt Drives - the future?
In ,
Mark T pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_ reply*.com.invalid tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us: www.bikebiz.com/news/29367/Carbon-belt-drives-are-standardised Now that there's a new standard out there, does anything stand in their way? o Can't be retrofitted to an existing bike (or can it?) o hub gears only so gear range is of necessity limited even if one can afford a Rohloff -- Dave Larrington http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk Trees, once grown in large numbers, make perfect forests. |
#5
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Belt Drives - the future?
On 1 Feb, 13:23, "Nigel Cliffe" wrote:
It will be a shame if belt drives just die through the conservatism of the bike market. For a utility bike, a belt makes a lot of sense - no oil and should last longer. I can see how it may work well off-road. I can't see it ending up on race/audax machines (even though it is carbon fibre!), except, possibly, in the recumbent arena. I can see them being popular in commuting / city bikes. The width of the belt, and the lack of lateral flex, means a fixed chainline and no derailleur, so it'll only work with hub gears. But that's not much of an 'only', considering there's a big market for people who only need a few gears. As you say, for a utility bike it's seems like a good thing. Oh, and it won't rust in the winter, which reminds me I need to do some chain TLC this weekend... Colin |
#6
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Belt Drives - the future?
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 13:23:14 -0000, Nigel Cliffe wrote:
Peter Clinch wrote: Mark T wrote: www.bikebiz.com/news/29367/Carbon-belt-drives-are-standardised Now that there's a new standard out there, does anything stand in their way? Initially, inertia from the innate conservatism of the bike market. There will naturally be suspicion of a New! Improved! Thing replacing something that, for all its faults, works pretty well and we're familiar with it. Fixing something that doesn't seem to be borken, in other words. It will be a shame if belt drives just die through the conservatism of the bike market. For a utility bike, a belt makes a lot of sense - no oil and should last longer. I can see how it may work well off-road. I can't see it ending up on race/audax machines (even though it is carbon fibre!), except, possibly, in the recumbent arena. Efficiency, beloved by racers and marketing droids, will be a big issue. Bigger than it should be, probably; and murkier, certainly. My recollection is that previous versions of belt drives were estimated to be less efficient that a well-lubricated new roller chain. Belts do not lend themselves well to derailleur gear systems, and that would add the typical lower efficiency of hub gearing. Cleanliness is a possible advantage - but if you are going to have a hub gear, you might as well have a chaincase; which would probably also remove or reverse any durability advantage. Howevere, this will be (sort of) "new", and manufactures love "new" - it means that they can sell stuff to (some of) the installed base. |
#7
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Belt Drives - the future?
_ wrote:
Efficiency, beloved by racers and marketing droids, will be a big issue. Bigger than it should be, probably; and murkier, certainly. My recollection is that previous versions of belt drives were estimated to be less efficient that a well-lubricated new roller chain. But a lot of the point of this new one is it's meant to be just as efficient as a chain. Belts do not lend themselves well to derailleur gear systems, and that would add the typical lower efficiency of hub gearing. It is typical, but it's also changing. Hubs have come on a long way in recent years while derailleurs haven't really changed /that/ much. if they continue to improve (particularly the likes of the NuVinci CVT hub, which just needs to get lighter AFAICT) this may start to be less of an issue. Cleanliness is a possible advantage - but if you are going to have a hub gear, you might as well have a chaincase; which would probably also remove or reverse any durability advantage. I don't think so. An enclosed chain still needs lubrication, while a drive belt doesn't. It does have some clear advantages... as long as you don't particularly need derailleurs for your particular application (and "need" can be factored in as cost: they're popular at the low end in part because they're not very sophisticated and thus cheap). Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#8
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Belt Drives - the future?
Dave Larrington Wrote: o Can't be retrofitted to an existing bike (or can it?) Retrofit would require a splittable (or spliceable) belt. Not impossible, but not yet here. Dave Larrington Wrote: o hub gears only .. You need to consider that snowmobiles, certain cars and various other vehicles have been using belt drives for years under the catchy phrase of CVT (continously variable transmissions). Granted, an entirely different kind of belt compared to what usually discussed as the potential future of bicycles, but still a belt... I wonder how the bike (marketing) industry would cope with a CVT-equipped bike? With no longer being able to use the number of gears to separate categories, what would they do instead? -- dabac |
#9
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Belt Drives - the future?
dabac wrote:
I wonder how the bike (marketing) industry would cope with a CVT-equipped bike? With no longer being able to use the number of gears to separate categories, what would they do instead? Google NuVinci, it's been released in the fairly recent past and according to all the reviews I've seen thus far works very well indeed. the current Gotcha is the hub weighs about 4 Kg, which is a lot in bike terms. But it's version 1, I imagine it will improve. Personally, I'd love CVT, just as soon as the costs and weights come down (previous implementations have been rather inefficient AIUI, but from what i read the NuVinci has got at least most of that sorted). Rather than say "27 gears" you could differentiate bikes with practical gear range, which unlike the "27 gears" would actually impart some useful information... so I guess marketing might not like it so much... ;-/ Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#10
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Belt Drives - the future?
dabac wrote:
o hub gears only .. You need to consider that snowmobiles, certain cars and various other vehicles have been using belt drives for years under the catchy phrase of CVT (continously variable transmissions). IIRC such transmissions have losses that aren't acceptable on a HPV. BugBear |
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