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Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 18th 12, 03:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
pensive hamster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement

On Aug 16, 6:54*pm, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:
On 16/08/2012 16:12, pensive hamster wrote:

[...]
I did not
say that the research itself was 'selective' or 'misleading'. I said
your quote from what appears to be an interim assessment (not the
final research) was selective and misleading. You seem to be cherry-
picking the research.


Not at all. *The research said, quite clearly;

"Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of
transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange. For them, cycling is a bit
embarrassing, they fail to see its purpose, and have no interest in
integrating it into their lives, certainly on a regular basis."

Do let me know if you have trouble with some of the big words.



Further, you do not provide a link to the actual research report so
that the reader can judge the research for themselves. You expect them
to accept your summary of the research.


I have in the past. *It's public domain, GIFFS.



I am guessing that you are probably quoting from the Guardian article
on the research.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...ling-campaigns
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4xozyvx

The Guardian article does contain the quote from Dave Horton that you
like so much that you have adopted it for your sig. But it also
contains the following, which for some reason you have omitted from
your sig:

'A key finding was that the small numbers of people who do try cycling
tend to be intimidated by overwhelmingly car-oriented urban layouts.

'Even to experienced riders these often resemble "a dangerous obstacle
course", Horton said. "The minority of people who cycle in English
cities tend to do so despite, not because of, existing conditions.
Some people try cycling, but are quickly put off." '

So part of the reason why many people do not cycle, according to Dave
Horton, is that they find the roads to be dangerous.

Looking again at the part which you do quote, it includes the
following:

" [For] Many people... the bicycle ... is either a toy for children or
a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange ... For them, cycling
is a bit embarrassing'

Have you read the full report? I would be impressed if you have. I
haven't, I'm not that bothered. The reason I ask, is because I wonder
if the report analyses the socio-economic profile of those holding the
views that you quote. I expect it skirts round that issue.

I would imagine the kind of people who see cycling as a bit
embarrassing, something fit only for the poor and/or strange, are
people who are sensitive to the way they think other people might see
them. They are predominantly lower-class and aspirant lower middle-
class, who would be embarrassed to think that others might see them as
the kind of people who couldn't afford to run a car, who are forced by
necessity to cycle. They couldn't bear the shame. As an April 2012
newspaper article put it:

__________________
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/me...mpetitive.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cc3g2ol
[...]
In Britain, cycling has long been sniffed at as the forced option of
the working class, rank with images of flat-capped factory hands and
straw-chewing codgers weaving down farm tracks.

This is no longer the case. According to Mintel, the leading retail
analyst, the wealthier people are, the more likely they are to ride
bikes. ...
__________________


So how about you, Dave? Where are you on the socio-economic scale? Do
you sniff at cycling because you don't want to be seen as working
class, as a strange straw-chewing codger? Or are you more like Dave
(Cameron) and Boris?



You seem to have, as the fragrant Mary Archer said of her husband, 'a
talent for inaccurate précis'.


How do you know Mary Archer is fragrant?



You should follow your own advice and GIFFS. Admittedly, I do not
personally know for sure that Mary Archer is fragrant, but I see no
reason to doubt the opinion of Mr Justice Caulfield, who, after all,
oversaw her cross-examination.


I suppose she would be
compared to a sweaty, smellycyclisthusband.


What makes you think her husband might be a sweaty, smelly cyclist? I
have no reason to suppose that Jeffrey is anything other than
perfectly groomed at all times.

In any case, he might well consider you a lower-class oik who is not
worth suing. So you are probably safe.

[...]
Grown men riding children's toys? *Clad in fluorescent lycra?


OK, I agree about the fluorescent lycra.


As Mr Clarkson said "dressed like extras in a gay rave movie".


Unlike Mr Clarkson, I am a stranger to gay rave movies.

[...]
If cyclists had any social skills & interacted with normal people, they
would realise how they are perceived.


You really haven't got the hang of this snobbery thing, have you? If
you had better social skills, you would realise that over-generalising
about any category of people can be a bit of a give away; people may
perceive you as a bit weird, someone with a bee in their bonnet.

Yes there are some strange cyclists, but there are plenty of normal
ones too, and even some posh ones. Perhaps you just haven't met any?
Ads
  #22  
Old August 18th 12, 03:47 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
pensive hamster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement

On Aug 16, 7:42*pm, JNugent wrote:


You'd better write pdq to David Horton at the University of Lancaster and
tell him he got his research and his conclusions all wrong.

He needn't have bothered doing any field work, interviews, etc. He could have
just sat in an armchair opposite you and you'd have fed him all the answers.


I don't think David Horton has got his research and his conclusions
all wrong, far from it.

But Dave the 'Voice of Reason' seems to have misunderstood the
research, given his selective and misleading quotes from it. He may
just be a troll, or he may be a rampant pedalophobe. Difficult to
tell. At any rate, he doesn't seem all that bright.
  #23  
Old August 18th 12, 04:48 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Dave - Cyclists VOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,703
Default Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement

On 18/08/2012 15:44, pensive hamster wrote:
On Aug 16, 6:54 pm, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:
On 16/08/2012 16:12, pensive hamster wrote:

[...]
I did not
say that the research itself was 'selective' or 'misleading'. I said
your quote from what appears to be an interim assessment (not the
final research) was selective and misleading. You seem to be cherry-
picking the research.


Not at all. The research said, quite clearly;

"Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a legitimate mode of
transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange. For them, cycling is a bit
embarrassing, they fail to see its purpose, and have no interest in
integrating it into their lives, certainly on a regular basis."

Do let me know if you have trouble with some of the big words.



Further, you do not provide a link to the actual research report so
that the reader can judge the research for themselves. You expect them
to accept your summary of the research.


I have in the past. It's public domain, GIFFS.



I am guessing that you are probably quoting from the Guardian article
on the research.


I have read the original as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...ling-campaigns
http://preview.tinyurl.com/4xozyvx

The Guardian article does contain the quote from Dave Horton that you
like so much that you have adopted it for your sig. But it also
contains the following, which for some reason you have omitted from
your sig:

'A key finding was that the small numbers of people who do try cycling
tend to be intimidated by overwhelmingly car-oriented urban layouts.


Small numbers.

'Even to experienced riders these often resemble "a dangerous obstacle
course", Horton said. "The minority of people who cycle in English
cities tend to do so despite, not because of, existing conditions.
Some people try cycling, but are quickly put off." '


We certainly should not waste public money on making roads more suitable
for a tiny minority. Cyclists need to adapt to the way roads are.

So part of the reason why many people do not cycle, according to Dave
Horton, is that they find the roads to be dangerous.


The unsuitable mode of transport is what's dangerous.

Looking again at the part which you do quote, it includes the
following:

" [For] Many people... the bicycle ... is either a toy for children or
a vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange ... For them, cycling
is a bit embarrassing'

Have you read the full report? I would be impressed if you have.


Be impressed.

I haven't, I'm not that bothered.


You don't look bothered. Your face isn't bothered.

The reason I ask, is because I wonder
if the report analyses the socio-economic profile of those holding the
views that you quote. I expect it skirts round that issue.


No, it doesn't skirt around those issues at all. It ignores them
because they are completely irrelevant.


I would imagine the kind of people who see cycling as a bit
embarrassing, something fit only for the poor and/or strange, are
people who are sensitive to the way they think other people might see
them.


You do have a vivid imagination don't you? Bordering on pure fantasy.


They are predominantly lower-class and aspirant lower middle-
class, who would be embarrassed to think that others might see them as
the kind of people who couldn't afford to run a car, who are forced by
necessity to cycle. They couldn't bear the shame. As an April 2012
newspaper article put it:


Here we go again. The standard, oft repeated, cyclists mantra that
cyclists are more intelligent, better educated & wealthier than non
cyclists.

Ze Plane, Ze Plane!



....
__________________


So how about you, Dave? Where are you on the socio-economic scale?


Confident.

Do
you sniff at cycling because you don't want to be seen as working
class, as a strange straw-chewing codger? Or are you more like Dave
(Cameron) and Boris?


I don't want to be seen as a lycra encrusted bell end certainly, but it
has nothing to do with social class, education or wealth. Cyclists are
immature overgrown schoolboys using a child's toy as a form of transport.

They account for less than 2% of journeys, contribute nothing, break the
law constantly, get in the way and are a general irritation.



You seem to have, as the fragrant Mary Archer said of her husband, 'a
talent for inaccurate précis'.


How do you know Mary Archer is fragrant?



You should follow your own advice and GIFFS. Admittedly, I do not
personally know for sure that Mary Archer is fragrant, but I see no
reason to doubt the opinion of Mr Justice Caulfield, who, after all,
oversaw her cross-examination.


Ah. A fragrance trained judge. Whatever next.


I suppose she would be
compared to a sweaty, smellycyclisthusband.


What makes you think her husband might be a sweaty, smelly cyclist? I
have no reason to suppose that Jeffrey is anything other than
perfectly groomed at all times.


Does he not ride a push bike? I rather thought he did. If so he is
highly likely to be sweaty & smelly.

In any case, he might well consider you a lower-class oik who is not
worth suing. So you are probably safe.

[...]
Grown men riding children's toys? Clad in fluorescent lycra?


OK, I agree about the fluorescent lycra.


As Mr Clarkson said "dressed like extras in a gay rave movie".


Unlike Mr Clarkson, I am a stranger to gay rave movies.

[...]
If cyclists had any social skills & interacted with normal people, they
would realise how they are perceived.


You really haven't got the hang of this snobbery thing, have you? If
you had better social skills, you would realise that over-generalising
about any category of people can be a bit of a give away; people may
perceive you as a bit weird, someone with a bee in their bonnet.


Strange how generalising is so accurate though isn't it?

People see me as a warm & wonderful person.

Yes there are some strange cyclists, but there are plenty of normal
ones too, and even some posh ones. Perhaps you just haven't met any?

Father Xmas, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Sasquatch. And now you expect me
to believe there are normal cyclists?



--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton, of Lancaster
University, wrote in an interim assessment of the Understanding Walking
and Cycling study. "For them, cycling is a bit embarrassing, they fail
to see its purpose, and have no interest in integrating it into their
lives, certainly on a regular basis."
  #24  
Old August 18th 12, 04:50 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Dave - Cyclists VOR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,703
Default Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement

On 18/08/2012 15:47, pensive hamster wrote:
On Aug 16, 7:42 pm, JNugent wrote:


You'd better write pdq to David Horton at the University of Lancaster and
tell him he got his research and his conclusions all wrong.

He needn't have bothered doing any field work, interviews, etc. He could have
just sat in an armchair opposite you and you'd have fed him all the answers.


I don't think David Horton has got his research and his conclusions
all wrong, far from it.

But Dave the 'Voice of Reason' seems to have misunderstood the
research, given his selective and misleading quotes from it. He may
just be a troll, or he may be a rampant pedalophobe. Difficult to
tell. At any rate, he doesn't seem all that bright.

But bright enough to run rings around you.


Dave Horton is himself a bicyclist. At least he was able to face up to
the truth & acknowledge the facts.


--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton, of Lancaster
University, wrote in an interim assessment of the Understanding Walking
and Cycling study. "For them, cycling is a bit embarrassing, they fail
to see its purpose, and have no interest in integrating it into their
lives, certainly on a regular basis."
  #25  
Old August 18th 12, 05:01 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
John Benn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 865
Default Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement

"Dave - Cyclists VOR" wrote in message
...

On 18/08/2012 15:44, pensive hamster wrote:


Yes there are some strange cyclists, but there are plenty of normal
ones too, and even some posh ones. Perhaps you just haven't met any?

Father Xmas, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Sasquatch. And now you expect me
to believe there are normal cyclists?
==============

Oi!! :-)

  #26  
Old August 19th 12, 09:33 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.legal
Peter Keller[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,736
Default Hit & run cyclist injures elderly woman on pavement

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 16:48:38 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR wrote:

The unsuitable mode of transport is what's dangerous.


No it isn't particularly.



--
Life is a venereal disease with 100% mortality.
 




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