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So Long Tubulars?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 9th 19, 03:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 7:01:22 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/07/tube...our-de-france/

-- Jay Beattie


Tubeless are great on my MTB, where lower pressure for better traction, and the lack of an inner tube to avoid getting pinch flats, are an unarguable advantage.
But on the road? Watching others suffer through flats and mounting convinced me its not worth it.
Tubular on the road? Loved them for feel and cornering. Did my own mounting. Lighter wheels and safer stronger tires. Kept them for race and hard workouts only, and used carbon clinchers with lightweight tires for street and training.
Then with a Veloflex clincher, crashed when the sidewall blew out and came off the bead, leaving rim skating on asphalt til the wheel grabbed and slapped me down on the road like a crackback football block, then slid an unknown distance grinding up my shoes and body.
Broke left femur, torn left rotator cuff, head injury, torn left meniscus, slipped disc between L3 and L4. Put a wrinkle in my life for a long time.
Since then, clinchers on alloy wheels only for local commuting. All training and recreational rides on the road are on tubular now. A well glued tubular will stay on the rim even if fully deflated. I'll have rubber, not slippery metal or plastic, between me and the asphalt if I get a flat.
Ride what you want, but a well glued tubular gives you a safety advantage no other bike tires style does. (unless some wise-arse wants to say, what about a solid pneumatic tire?)
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  #22  
Old July 9th 19, 09:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:46:33 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:40:19 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 3:31:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

Well, of course I was talking to Frank so you might be said to be
lurking on corners and eavesdropping on others, but you might say that
I'm here to expose those who tell lies and attempt to inflate their
own ego by bragging abut their great wealth, and who, at the same
time, weep and cry about how they don't have sufficient funds to buy
groceries.
--
cheers,

John B.

Or we can look at you living in a foreign country unable to ever move back to the USA and making up reality as you go along. Where did I ever say I don't have sufficient funds to buy groceries. To you telling the truth is something you cannot stand and you find a psychological need to blow it out of proportion.


What, "unable to move back"? And as for living in a foreign country,
given your last name your ancestors elected to "live in a foreign
country" so your argument appears to be "the pot calling he kettle
black".

And no, you didn't say, specifically, that you couldn't afford
groceries but you certainly appeared to be very concerned about the 50
odd dollars you spent and I guess that I assumed that anyone who was
so concerned about spending that vast sum of money must be a bit
worried about their budget. Else why would you have mentioned it?

I am worth over a million dollars. That used to be a lot of money but no longer is. Being someone as stupid as you or Frank and unable to realize that the future is not predictable and inflation could diminish your living standard is what marks the difference between a careful man and those who are not. You might try to remember that since Thailand is set for a large advance in living standards and commensurate inflation.


No I, certainly, and from his posts I assume Frank, are probably as
knowledgeable as you about the economy, if not more knowledgeable, and
yes inflation will decrease the value of your savings but if you have
invested in physical assets such as real estate than the value of your
"estate" tends to be inflated in price to (roughly) equate to the
inflation. And stock in such investments as gas and oil companies,
rubber growers, etc., generally grow in cash terms, again roughly, in
accordance with inflation.
--
cheers,

John B.


He's worth over ONE MILLION dollars and he's complaining about $50.00 worth of groceries? INCONCEIVABLE!


Not sure what century you are living in. But today ONE MILLION dollars is not really a lot of money. It is very easy to go through that amount of money. When I spend hundreds of dollars on medical care or prescriptions, I notice. I also notice when I spend $50 at the grocery store. And of course in the USA, $1 million would only be a down payment on a shack house. And in other parts you would have a mansion.
  #23  
Old July 9th 19, 10:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 01:01:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:46:33 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:40:19 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 3:31:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

Well, of course I was talking to Frank so you might be said to be
lurking on corners and eavesdropping on others, but you might say that
I'm here to expose those who tell lies and attempt to inflate their
own ego by bragging abut their great wealth, and who, at the same
time, weep and cry about how they don't have sufficient funds to buy
groceries.
--
cheers,

John B.

Or we can look at you living in a foreign country unable to ever move back to the USA and making up reality as you go along. Where did I ever say I don't have sufficient funds to buy groceries. To you telling the truth is something you cannot stand and you find a psychological need to blow it out of proportion.

What, "unable to move back"? And as for living in a foreign country,
given your last name your ancestors elected to "live in a foreign
country" so your argument appears to be "the pot calling he kettle
black".

And no, you didn't say, specifically, that you couldn't afford
groceries but you certainly appeared to be very concerned about the 50
odd dollars you spent and I guess that I assumed that anyone who was
so concerned about spending that vast sum of money must be a bit
worried about their budget. Else why would you have mentioned it?

I am worth over a million dollars. That used to be a lot of money but no longer is. Being someone as stupid as you or Frank and unable to realize that the future is not predictable and inflation could diminish your living standard is what marks the difference between a careful man and those who are not. You might try to remember that since Thailand is set for a large advance in living standards and commensurate inflation.

No I, certainly, and from his posts I assume Frank, are probably as
knowledgeable as you about the economy, if not more knowledgeable, and
yes inflation will decrease the value of your savings but if you have
invested in physical assets such as real estate than the value of your
"estate" tends to be inflated in price to (roughly) equate to the
inflation. And stock in such investments as gas and oil companies,
rubber growers, etc., generally grow in cash terms, again roughly, in
accordance with inflation.
--
cheers,

John B.


He's worth over ONE MILLION dollars and he's complaining about $50.00 worth of groceries? INCONCEIVABLE!


Not sure what century you are living in. But today ONE MILLION dollars is not really a lot of money.It is very easy to go through that amount of money. When I spend hundreds of dollars on medical care or prescriptions, I notice. I also notice when I spend $50 at the grocery store. And of course in the USA, $1 million would only be a down payment on a shack house. And in other parts you would have a mansion.


I live in Thailand and have for the past 47 years although I worked in
Indonesia for about 20 of those years. And while 1,000,000 US$, about
Thai Baht 30,000,000, it is not a fortune compared to what "The Rich"
would call a "fortune" but it is a large sum of money relative to what
"Joe Average" makes in salary.

US$ 50 would be about TB 1,500 which isn't an outrageous number. I
really have no idea what my wife spends weekly or monthly on food and
household supplies, as she has her own household allowance, but the
last time we went shopping I paid and the bill was in the TB 1,500
range. For, probably a week's supply of most food.

I would comment that we eat considerably better than the average
working man so what we pay is not indicative what the average Thai
working man would pay.

As for medical care if one picks and chooses their hospital or clinic
costs are very low compared to U.S. costs - I once read that a USian
can fly to Thailand, stay in a luxury hotel and have a surgical
procedure done, and fly back to the U.S. cheaper than the cost of the
same procedure in the U.S. - and Thai nationals of course have the "30
Baht medical plan" where they pay 30 Baht for a visit to a clinic or
hospital and ALL medical care proscribed by the doctor is covered by
that fee.
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #24  
Old July 9th 19, 01:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default So Long Tubulars?

On 7/8/2019 9:43 PM, Oculus Lights wrote:
On Saturday, July 6, 2019 at 7:01:22 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/07/tube...our-de-france/

-- Jay Beattie


Tubeless are great on my MTB, where lower pressure for better traction, and the lack of an inner tube to avoid getting pinch flats, are an unarguable advantage.
But on the road? Watching others suffer through flats and mounting convinced me its not worth it.
Tubular on the road? Loved them for feel and cornering. Did my own mounting. Lighter wheels and safer stronger tires. Kept them for race and hard workouts only, and used carbon clinchers with lightweight tires for street and training.
Then with a Veloflex clincher, crashed when the sidewall blew out and came off the bead, leaving rim skating on asphalt til the wheel grabbed and slapped me down on the road like a crackback football block, then slid an unknown distance grinding up my shoes and body.
Broke left femur, torn left rotator cuff, head injury, torn left meniscus, slipped disc between L3 and L4. Put a wrinkle in my life for a long time.
Since then, clinchers on alloy wheels only for local commuting. All training and recreational rides on the road are on tubular now. A well glued tubular will stay on the rim even if fully deflated. I'll have rubber, not slippery metal or plastic, between me and the asphalt if I get a flat.
Ride what you want, but a well glued tubular gives you a safety advantage no other bike tires style does. (unless some wise-arse wants to say, what about a solid pneumatic tire?)


+1 on both tubeless and tubulars.

Besides which tubs are much less expensive than premium
clinchers for roughly the same weight and feel.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #25  
Old July 10th 19, 01:52 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 5:40:19 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 3:31:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

Well, of course I was talking to Frank so you might be said to be
lurking on corners and eavesdropping on others, but you might say that
I'm here to expose those who tell lies and attempt to inflate their
own ego by bragging abut their great wealth, and who, at the same
time, weep and cry about how they don't have sufficient funds to buy
groceries.
--
cheers,

John B.


Or we can look at you living in a foreign country unable to ever move back to the USA and making up reality as you go along. Where did I ever say I don't have sufficient funds to buy groceries. To you telling the truth is something you cannot stand and you find a psychological need to blow it out of proportion.


What, "unable to move back"? And as for living in a foreign country,
given your last name your ancestors elected to "live in a foreign
country" so your argument appears to be "the pot calling he kettle
black".

And no, you didn't say, specifically, that you couldn't afford
groceries but you certainly appeared to be very concerned about the 50
odd dollars you spent and I guess that I assumed that anyone who was
so concerned about spending that vast sum of money must be a bit
worried about their budget. Else why would you have mentioned it?

I am worth over a million dollars. That used to be a lot of money but no longer is. Being someone as stupid as you or Frank and unable to realize that the future is not predictable and inflation could diminish your living standard is what marks the difference between a careful man and those who are not. You might try to remember that since Thailand is set for a large advance in living standards and commensurate inflation.


No I, certainly, and from his posts I assume Frank, are probably as
knowledgeable as you about the economy, if not more knowledgeable, and
yes inflation will decrease the value of your savings but if you have
invested in physical assets such as real estate than the value of your
"estate" tends to be inflated in price to (roughly) equate to the
inflation. And stock in such investments as gas and oil companies,
rubber growers, etc., generally grow in cash terms, again roughly, in
accordance with inflation.
--
cheers,

John B.


Unlike some useless POS, I am concerned about the cost of living effects ESPWCIALLY on the less wealthy people. Living in Thailand shows that you don't give one damn about the lower classes. So kiss off with your false memories.
  #26  
Old July 10th 19, 01:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 5:41:44 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:39:44 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you
have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting
lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement
lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't
have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when
you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any
punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to
just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler,
so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I
had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also
think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an
incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And
we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle
and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to
"few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the
first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!)
Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the
top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc
brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never
once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some
may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if
you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some
of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less
rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

He's got a computer and at least one opinion. What more does one need?


Radey - if you have an opinion and nothing more there is the .soc
group. Here you are expected to actually have some technical
knowledge. The major problem with the Internet these days is that
people mistake opinions for knowledge. Even the media now has eschewed
knowledge for opinion.


It's Usenet -- no one vets your palmares, no one vouches for your bona
fides. But every reader can decide for him- or herself whether a post
is sufficiently useful/interesting/entertaining to read. Hostility can
be both unrelenting *and* entertaining, but it's tough to keep that up
for 20 or 30 posts a day. Look at Andre, a man hardened by years of
payment by the word, see how he paces himself.

I'm not all sure that years of reading Usenet have been time well spent,
but I have learned a thing or two. One is that, although I devoutly hope
one day to retire while still able to ride a bike, a person *can* have
too much free time. The other is that if doing or reading something
makes me crazy, it's better to give it a rest.

--


I don't follow you. What does "palmares" have to do with anything? tech is not who you rode with, what you rode and why you rode it. If you cannot see what works and what doesn't than why in hell would you be on .tech to begin with?

Surely you might not understand a point or a necessary repair, but if it is explained to you and you cannot verify that it is correct simply by trying it, then again you haven't any place on .tech.

I have never seen any addition to the group from John or Frank and Ridesalot. To them this is nothing more than a social group.
  #27  
Old July 10th 19, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 1:01:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:46:33 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:40:19 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 3:31:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement.. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

Well, of course I was talking to Frank so you might be said to be
lurking on corners and eavesdropping on others, but you might say that
I'm here to expose those who tell lies and attempt to inflate their
own ego by bragging abut their great wealth, and who, at the same
time, weep and cry about how they don't have sufficient funds to buy
groceries.
--
cheers,

John B.

Or we can look at you living in a foreign country unable to ever move back to the USA and making up reality as you go along. Where did I ever say I don't have sufficient funds to buy groceries. To you telling the truth is something you cannot stand and you find a psychological need to blow it out of proportion.

What, "unable to move back"? And as for living in a foreign country,
given your last name your ancestors elected to "live in a foreign
country" so your argument appears to be "the pot calling he kettle
black".

And no, you didn't say, specifically, that you couldn't afford
groceries but you certainly appeared to be very concerned about the 50
odd dollars you spent and I guess that I assumed that anyone who was
so concerned about spending that vast sum of money must be a bit
worried about their budget. Else why would you have mentioned it?

I am worth over a million dollars. That used to be a lot of money but no longer is. Being someone as stupid as you or Frank and unable to realize that the future is not predictable and inflation could diminish your living standard is what marks the difference between a careful man and those who are not. You might try to remember that since Thailand is set for a large advance in living standards and commensurate inflation.

No I, certainly, and from his posts I assume Frank, are probably as
knowledgeable as you about the economy, if not more knowledgeable, and
yes inflation will decrease the value of your savings but if you have
invested in physical assets such as real estate than the value of your
"estate" tends to be inflated in price to (roughly) equate to the
inflation. And stock in such investments as gas and oil companies,
rubber growers, etc., generally grow in cash terms, again roughly, in
accordance with inflation.
--
cheers,

John B.


He's worth over ONE MILLION dollars and he's complaining about $50.00 worth of groceries? INCONCEIVABLE!


Not sure what century you are living in. But today ONE MILLION dollars is not really a lot of money. It is very easy to go through that amount of money. When I spend hundreds of dollars on medical care or prescriptions, I notice. I also notice when I spend $50 at the grocery store. And of course in the USA, $1 million would only be a down payment on a shack house. And in other parts you would have a mansion.


There are people that know how to handle money and people who do not. Apparently there are a very large number of the later on this group. Reminds me of my brother who just retired and he had an entire year of back paid-time-off saved up. He took that ENTIRE bundle and bought a Lexus top end. Now the insurance payments are so high that he has to watch the wine he drinks. He use to be an aficionado. Now he is a Trader Joes.
  #28  
Old July 10th 19, 02:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,231
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 2:06:57 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 01:01:39 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:46:33 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 8:40:19 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 3:31:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

Well, of course I was talking to Frank so you might be said to be
lurking on corners and eavesdropping on others, but you might say that
I'm here to expose those who tell lies and attempt to inflate their
own ego by bragging abut their great wealth, and who, at the same
time, weep and cry about how they don't have sufficient funds to buy
groceries.
--
cheers,

John B.

Or we can look at you living in a foreign country unable to ever move back to the USA and making up reality as you go along. Where did I ever say I don't have sufficient funds to buy groceries. To you telling the truth is something you cannot stand and you find a psychological need to blow it out of proportion.

What, "unable to move back"? And as for living in a foreign country,
given your last name your ancestors elected to "live in a foreign
country" so your argument appears to be "the pot calling he kettle
black".

And no, you didn't say, specifically, that you couldn't afford
groceries but you certainly appeared to be very concerned about the 50
odd dollars you spent and I guess that I assumed that anyone who was
so concerned about spending that vast sum of money must be a bit
worried about their budget. Else why would you have mentioned it?

I am worth over a million dollars. That used to be a lot of money but no longer is. Being someone as stupid as you or Frank and unable to realize that the future is not predictable and inflation could diminish your living standard is what marks the difference between a careful man and those who are not. You might try to remember that since Thailand is set for a large advance in living standards and commensurate inflation.

No I, certainly, and from his posts I assume Frank, are probably as
knowledgeable as you about the economy, if not more knowledgeable, and
yes inflation will decrease the value of your savings but if you have
invested in physical assets such as real estate than the value of your
"estate" tends to be inflated in price to (roughly) equate to the
inflation. And stock in such investments as gas and oil companies,
rubber growers, etc., generally grow in cash terms, again roughly, in
accordance with inflation.
--
cheers,

John B.

He's worth over ONE MILLION dollars and he's complaining about $50.00 worth of groceries? INCONCEIVABLE!


Not sure what century you are living in. But today ONE MILLION dollars is not really a lot of money.It is very easy to go through that amount of money. When I spend hundreds of dollars on medical care or prescriptions, I notice. I also notice when I spend $50 at the grocery store. And of course in the USA, $1 million would only be a down payment on a shack house. And in other parts you would have a mansion.


I live in Thailand and have for the past 47 years although I worked in
Indonesia for about 20 of those years. And while 1,000,000 US$, about
Thai Baht 30,000,000, it is not a fortune compared to what "The Rich"
would call a "fortune" but it is a large sum of money relative to what
"Joe Average" makes in salary.

US$ 50 would be about TB 1,500 which isn't an outrageous number. I
really have no idea what my wife spends weekly or monthly on food and
household supplies, as she has her own household allowance, but the
last time we went shopping I paid and the bill was in the TB 1,500
range. For, probably a week's supply of most food.

I would comment that we eat considerably better than the average
working man so what we pay is not indicative what the average Thai
working man would pay.

As for medical care if one picks and chooses their hospital or clinic
costs are very low compared to U.S. costs - I once read that a USian
can fly to Thailand, stay in a luxury hotel and have a surgical
procedure done, and fly back to the U.S. cheaper than the cost of the
same procedure in the U.S. - and Thai nationals of course have the "30
Baht medical plan" where they pay 30 Baht for a visit to a clinic or
hospital and ALL medical care proscribed by the doctor is covered by
that fee.
--

Cheers,

John B.



Your entire message was summed up with " I really have no idea what my wife spends weekly or monthly on food".
  #29  
Old July 10th 19, 02:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default So Long Tubulars?

Tom Kunich writes:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 5:41:44 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 7:39:44 AM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
Tom Kunich writes:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you
have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting
lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement
lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't
have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when
you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any
punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to
just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler,
so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I
had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also
think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an
incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And
we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle
and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to
"few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the
first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!)
Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the
top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc
brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never
once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some
may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if
you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some
of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less
rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

He's got a computer and at least one opinion. What more does one need?

Radey - if you have an opinion and nothing more there is the .soc
group. Here you are expected to actually have some technical
knowledge. The major problem with the Internet these days is that
people mistake opinions for knowledge. Even the media now has eschewed
knowledge for opinion.


It's Usenet -- no one vets your palmares, no one vouches for your bona
fides. But every reader can decide for him- or herself whether a post
is sufficiently useful/interesting/entertaining to read. Hostility can
be both unrelenting *and* entertaining, but it's tough to keep that up
for 20 or 30 posts a day. Look at Andre, a man hardened by years of
payment by the word, see how he paces himself.

I'm not all sure that years of reading Usenet have been time well spent,
but I have learned a thing or two. One is that, although I devoutly hope
one day to retire while still able to ride a bike, a person *can* have
too much free time. The other is that if doing or reading something
makes me crazy, it's better to give it a rest.

--


I don't follow you. What does "palmares" have to do with anything?
tech is not who you rode with, what you rode and why you rode it. If
you cannot see what works and what doesn't than why in hell would you
be on .tech to begin with?

Surely you might not understand a point or a necessary repair, but if
it is explained to you and you cannot verify that it is correct simply
by trying it, then again you haven't any place on .tech.

I have never seen any addition to the group from John or Frank and
Ridesalot. To them this is nothing more than a social group.


My point is that you saying that changes no one's opinion -- anyone
reading makes up his own mind.
  #30  
Old July 10th 19, 09:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default So Long Tubulars?

On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 5:40:19 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, July 8, 2019 at 3:31:03 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 11:13:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Sunday, July 7, 2019 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:
Chalo wrote:
What good is riding the tire without getting flats, if you have to spend
more time fooling around with it than if you were getting lots of flats
in a conventional system? You're trading the chance of a small
inconvenience for the certainty of a larger one.

If your riding time is scarce and precious, but basement lurking time is
plentiful, I guess I can see the appeal. You probably won't have to mess
with it while you're on the trail. But you will have to mess with it,
both when installing the stuff and again every so often when you take out
the curds and whey-- and that's true even if you didn't get any punctures at all.


Some people like to fiddle with the hardware, and some like to just use it
and not think about it. With guitars, I’m a hardware fiddler, so I ditched
music and went into engineering. A friend of mine posted a picture of
himself adjusting the valve lash on his BMW motorcycle and I had to think
back to the last time I ever had to do that (1988?). I also think we all
have different levels of how much we are willing to pay for an incremental
performance improvement.

... Or for an irrelevant or negligible performance improvement. And we definitely
have different judgments on the benefits vs. detriments of performance
improvements.

Why would I go to tubeless tires? I'd have to invest a bundle and learn a new
maintenance drill, but for what? To reduce my few flats per year to "few minus
one"? To reduce my rolling resistance, when I'm usually the first or second
rider to finish a ride? (Tip: Ride with old folks! It's easier!) Why would I
switch to a much lighter bike? I'm usually first or second to the top of a hill,
even on the tandem. (See the tip above.) Why would I switch to disc brakes? I
don't do that much riding in the rain, and anyway I've never once gotten in
trouble by my rim brakes being inadequate.

I understand that there are people who want whatever the advertisers are
promoting most this year. Some do it because of the "art" value of the
(supposedly) top technology. ("I've got the finest bike!!!"). Some may do it to
beat their buddies to the next telephone pole. Have at it, if you like. But
that's not what most of my riding is about.

What I don't understand is people who don't understand that some of us don't
give a damn about three fewer pounds, or one thousandth less rolling resistance,
or magical handling that only cognoscenti can detect.

Why not just ride the bike?

- Frank Krygowski

But what do you know? After all you don't have a $4,000 bike like The
Expert does so obviously you don't know nothing :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

And you don't have anything so why are you on this group?

Well, of course I was talking to Frank so you might be said to be
lurking on corners and eavesdropping on others, but you might say that
I'm here to expose those who tell lies and attempt to inflate their
own ego by bragging abut their great wealth, and who, at the same
time, weep and cry about how they don't have sufficient funds to buy
groceries.
--
cheers,

John B.

Or we can look at you living in a foreign country unable to ever move back to the USA and making up reality as you go along. Where did I ever say I don't have sufficient funds to buy groceries. To you telling the truth is something you cannot stand and you find a psychological need to blow it out of proportion.


What, "unable to move back"? And as for living in a foreign country,
given your last name your ancestors elected to "live in a foreign
country" so your argument appears to be "the pot calling he kettle
black".

And no, you didn't say, specifically, that you couldn't afford
groceries but you certainly appeared to be very concerned about the 50
odd dollars you spent and I guess that I assumed that anyone who was
so concerned about spending that vast sum of money must be a bit
worried about their budget. Else why would you have mentioned it?

I am worth over a million dollars. That used to be a lot of money but no longer is. Being someone as stupid as you or Frank and unable to realize that the future is not predictable and inflation could diminish your living standard is what marks the difference between a careful man and those who are not. You might try to remember that since Thailand is set for a large advance in living standards and commensurate inflation.


No I, certainly, and from his posts I assume Frank, are probably as
knowledgeable as you about the economy, if not more knowledgeable, and
yes inflation will decrease the value of your savings but if you have
invested in physical assets such as real estate than the value of your
"estate" tends to be inflated in price to (roughly) equate to the
inflation. And stock in such investments as gas and oil companies,
rubber growers, etc., generally grow in cash terms, again roughly, in
accordance with inflation.
--
cheers,

John B.


Unlike some useless POS, I am concerned about the cost of living effects ESPWCIALLY on the less wealthy people. Living in Thailand shows that you don't give one damn about the lower classes. So kiss off with your false memories.


Well, in sense, I don't concern myself with "poor folks" primarily
because two of my wife's younger brothers were common laborers when my
wife and I were first married, about 50 years ago, and are now both
millionaires several times over. Solely due to their own efforts.

If two poorly educated kids from a tiny farming town in N.E. Thailand
can become millionaires by the time they are 60 years old it makes me
believe that being poor is largely a matter of an individual not
willing to work for it.

--

Cheers,

John B.
 




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