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#72
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Road Discs
On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle Sam's air force I've done both. And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks in several different styles. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho? Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in any other medium: http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html (I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no complaints) Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding. You're right about working/joining Ti. It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#73
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Road Discs
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 2:04:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle Sam's air force I've done both. And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks in several different styles. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho? Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in any other medium: http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html (I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no complaints) Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding. You're right about working/joining Ti. It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends. My memory of the steel Japanese brands were exquisite quality but because of that a little more weight than other brands. |
#74
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Road Discs
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 06:13:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle Sam's air force I've done both. And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks in several different styles. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks https://www.ticycles.com/store/?category=FORK http://www.tsbcycles.com/titanium-fork/ So how come SMS's merry group aren't using them? Did you look at how poorly designed and constructed those things are? Which ones? They look like most of the forks I've seen. -- Cheers, John B. |
#75
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Road Discs
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 09:17:48 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle Sam's air force I've done both. And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks in several different styles. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho? The first reference goes to a page with titanium forks. The second pops up a "page not found" notice and then you can search for "titanium forks". I didn't study each fork offered in detail but generally I'd say that seem to be straight tube forks similar to many shown on http://tinyurl.com/yd5bdx4y -- Cheers, John B. |
#76
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Road Discs
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:04:13 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle Sam's air force I've done both. And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks in several different styles. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho? Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in any other medium: http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html (I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no complaints) Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding. You're right about working/joining Ti. It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends. Technically titanium can be silver soldered using pure silver or pure aluminum, I believe, although I don't find a reference for joint strength and all the titanium I've seen fabricated was welded in an inert atmosphere. -- Cheers, John B. |
#77
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Road Discs
On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 7:20:41 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2017 16:04:13 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/13/2017 2:59 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 10:41:29 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/13/2017 11:17 AM, Doug Landau wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 5:57:47 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:05:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle.. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. That just isn't true at all. Working titanium is very much like working stainless steel, and I'll add that while serving in Uncle Sam's air force I've done both. And, in fact I've come across a number of sources for titanium forks in several different styles. https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/tit...cle-forks.html https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesa...-bicycle-forks Page not found. Doesn't everything on that site suck anyway tho? Titanium is a material, not magic. Engineers/designers who ignore physics fail in titanium as they would have failed in any other medium: http://www.yellowjersey.org/hand14.html (I have a wonderful Ti road bike with matching Ti fork, no complaints) Those pictures are pretty awful. How do you get braze to stick to titanium? I thought that titanium couldn't be brazed but required welding. You're right about working/joining Ti. It was a complete mess so farther down the page you can see my replacement CrMo fabrication with forged steel ends. Technically titanium can be silver soldered using pure silver or pure aluminum, I believe, although I don't find a reference for joint strength and all the titanium I've seen fabricated was welded in an inert atmosphere. By all means ride a silver soldered titanium fork. Aluminum won't flow so you cannot "braze" a lug with it. All of the forks that I looked at had the extremely bad design of a straight steerer with legs welded onto the sides of it. I have used steel versions of this and the legs bow out and the tire hits the steerer. As proof of this the paint was torn off of the top inside of the fork and the tire had it's rubber worn down rapidly. |
#78
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Road Discs
jbeattie wrote:
So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! -- Jay Beattie. You will be able to get rim brakes and bits for them, I’d though though my lifetime, I’m currently 42, my dad has managed to get some new tyres for the NewHudson that they have for rolling along after grandchildren! Roger Merriman |
#79
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Road Discs
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 2:11:36 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
jbeattie wrote: So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! -- Jay Beattie. You will be able to get rim brakes and bits for them, I’d though though my lifetime, I’m currently 42, my dad has managed to get some new tyres for the NewHudson that they have for rolling along after grandchildren! As a point of interest - the reason for disks is supposed to be stronger braking. And yet Campagnolo has just gone back from dual pivot back brake to single pivot because too many racers were locking the rear wheel up. A hydraulic disk has probably five times the stopping power. |
#80
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Road Discs
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