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Front cracking noise



 
 
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  #71  
Old February 16th 19, 02:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Front cracking noise

John B. Slocomb wrote:
:On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

:John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:01:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
: wrote:
:
: On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
: wrote:
:
: On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
:
: Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.
:
: There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
: aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
: your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
: conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
: cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
: concerned with cost in that regard.
:
: Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
: house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
: given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
: common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
: are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
: See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg
:
:
: By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)
:
: Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
: was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
: repair.
:
: Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
: It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
: I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
: Hope this helps.
: --
:
: Cheers,
:
: John B.
:
: Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
: number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had aluminium wiring in it.
:
: Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.
:
: Cheers
:
: You are being a little ridiculous, aren't you. All commercial wiring
: used in the U.S. is rated for it's voltage and amperage carrying
: capacity. Do you actually believe that the aluminum wire makers have
: somehow coherence the rating authorities into over rating aluminum
: wire?
:
: Or perhaps the answer is that a large number of ignorant people
: overload their home electrical circuits and then blame the resulting
: fire on the wires?
: --
:
: Cheers,
:
: John B.
:
:
:Or that early aluminum home wiring systems didn't properly take into
:account the oxidation that always forms on aluminum, and its greater
:thermal expansion, resulting in dangerous high impedance connections.
:
:The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
:doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
:current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
:weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
:properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
:essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
:market.

:Ask any electrical inspector how many times he has found a coin
:inserted in the old screw type fuse blocks, or oversize fuse wire in
:the even older type of fuses. I have even seen a piece of bent wire
:inserted in a fuse box that was intended to prevent a conventional
:"breaker" from tripping.


What the **** has that got to with aluminum wire? The aluminum wire that
was used for branch circuits in houses in the late sixities and early 70s
is crap. The alloy used was unsuitable -- it has very much movement with
temperature, that movement doesn't match the expansion and contraction
of the devices it's terminated on, and it's very prone to oxidation. In
addition, the devices used allowed the wire to creep, creating loose
connections, which leads to heat, which leads to fire. The stuff is
unsafe, as installed. Poor modifications to it make it worse. Lots of
those have been done by supposedly qualified electricians.

The aluminum wire that's used for transmission lines is different, and
works quite well for that. So does the aluminum wire that's nearly
universally used for service feeders in the US. So does the modern
aluminum wire that's sometimes used for branch circuits; it's a
different alloy, that has expansion much better matched to the devices
it's terminated in, and the dangers of oxidation and the requirement
to use an anti-corrosive paste on splices and terminations makes it
perform as well as copper.



--
sig 43
Ads
  #72  
Old February 16th 19, 03:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Front cracking noise

On 2/15/2019 8:23 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
market.


Ask any electrical inspector how many times he has found a coin
inserted in the old screw type fuse blocks, or oversize fuse wire in
the even older type of fuses. I have even seen a piece of bent wire
inserted in a fuse box that was intended to prevent a conventional
"breaker" from tripping.


There have always been, and will always be, totally stupid homeowner
mistakes. That's not the source of the risk with aluminum wiring, except
perhaps in the hands of an incompetent do-it-yourselfer. Especially when
it was first popularized, safe use practices were apparently just beyond
the skill set of the typical electrician.

And these days, fixing the problem is very costly. Our good friends (now
living in a distant state) were trying to sell their condo, one with
aluminum wiring. It added greatly to the complication and expense.

Or go to any housing supply store and see the "extension cords" that
allow 6 or 8 devices to be plugged into a single wall socket.


I think that's much less of a problem than it used to be. LED lights
draw far less current than incandescents. Modern TVs, stereos etc. are
also much less current-hungry.

If you don't plug two toasters and a hair dryer into the same circuit as
your vacuum cleaner, you'll probably be OK. And if you're not OK, the
breaker will trip, assuming you haven't disabled it.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #73  
Old February 16th 19, 03:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Front cracking noise

On 2/15/2019 7:38 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:11:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:

Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.

There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
concerned with cost in that regard.

Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg


By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)

Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
repair.

Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
Hope this helps.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had aluminium wiring in it.

Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.

Cheers


I wouldn't buy a house with aluminum wiring, and yet most of the power
system up to your house is all aluminum wires.


According to a number of studies done here in Canada a house with aluminium wiring is 55 times more likely to have a fire than one with copper wiring. Therefore, NO! I would NOT buy a house with aluminium wiring.

Cheers


You mean that a house in Canada "code wired" with aluminum wire is
more likely to burn down due to the wiring than a house "code wired"
with copper wires?


I believe that is the case, from what I've read and heard.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #74  
Old February 16th 19, 04:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Front cracking noise

On Thursday, February 14, 2019 at 11:06:41 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/14/2019 1:37 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Sir Ridesalot writes:

For MY NEEDS dynamo lights just don't cut it.


No one, least of all me, is trying to convince you to use a dynamo hub,
or make you feel bad for not using one.


+1


I will make you feel bad for using a mega-lumen light on a two-way cycle track, MUP or other bike facility. I'm getting sooooooooo tired of getting blinded. People are getting totally fanatical about lights. I was behind a rider tonight that had a half dozen flashers and those helmet lights with the big flashing chevron. https://lumoshelmet.co/ I thought the f****** circus had come to town.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #75  
Old February 16th 19, 04:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Front cracking noise

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:01:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:

Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.

There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
concerned with cost in that regard.

Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg


By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)

Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
repair.

Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
Hope this helps.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had
aluminium wiring in it.

Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.

Cheers

You are being a little ridiculous, aren't you. All commercial wiring
used in the U.S. is rated for it's voltage and amperage carrying
capacity. Do you actually believe that the aluminum wire makers have
somehow coherence the rating authorities into over rating aluminum
wire?

Or perhaps the answer is that a large number of ignorant people
overload their home electrical circuits and then blame the resulting
fire on the wires?
--

Cheers,

John B.


Or that early aluminum home wiring systems didn't properly take into
account the oxidation that always forms on aluminum, and its greater
thermal expansion, resulting in dangerous high impedance connections.

The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
market.


Ask any electrical inspector how many times he has found a coin
inserted in the old screw type fuse blocks, or oversize fuse wire in
the even older type of fuses. I have even seen a piece of bent wire
inserted in a fuse box that was intended to prevent a conventional
"breaker" from tripping.

Or go to any housing supply store and see the "extension cords" that
allow 6 or 8 devices to be plugged into a single wall socket.
--

Cheers,

John B.


So idiots only use aluminum wiring? Or is it that something about aluminum
wiring is inherently less idiot proof, or even unsafe with non-idiots?

  #76  
Old February 16th 19, 06:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Front cracking noise

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:01:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:

Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.

There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
concerned with cost in that regard.

Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg


By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)

Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
repair.

Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
Hope this helps.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had aluminium wiring in it.

Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.

Cheers


You are being a little ridiculous, aren't you. All commercial wiring
used in the U.S. is rated for it's voltage and amperage carrying
capacity. Do you actually believe that the aluminum wire makers have
somehow coherence the rating authorities into over rating aluminum
wire?

Or perhaps the answer is that a large number of ignorant people
overload their home electrical circuits and then blame the resulting
fire on the wires?
--

Cheers,

John B.


Or that early aluminum home wiring systems didn't properly take into
account the oxidation that always forms on aluminum, and its greater
thermal expansion, resulting in dangerous high impedance connections.

The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
market.


I once inspected a newly built barracks building and found that the
ground socket on all the receptacles was connected directly to the
"neutral" socket, which of course was connected to a ground stake at
the entrance.

The Air Force got rather upset about this and threatened not to pay
the contractor and finally the Base Legal Office got involved and
ruled that the contractor had not defaulted on the contract as the
specifications stated that "the "ground" must be connected directly to
a ground stake or other ground system".

And, of course it was :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #77  
Old February 16th 19, 07:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Front cracking noise

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:45:43 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt
wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
:On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

:John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:01:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
: wrote:
:
: On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
: On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
: wrote:
:
: On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
:
: Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.
:
: There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
: aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
: your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
: conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
: cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
: concerned with cost in that regard.
:
: Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
: house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
: given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
: common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
: are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
: See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg
:
:
: By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)
:
: Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
: was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
: repair.
:
: Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
: It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
: I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
: Hope this helps.
: --
:
: Cheers,
:
: John B.
:
: Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
: number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had aluminium wiring in it.
:
: Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.
:
: Cheers
:
: You are being a little ridiculous, aren't you. All commercial wiring
: used in the U.S. is rated for it's voltage and amperage carrying
: capacity. Do you actually believe that the aluminum wire makers have
: somehow coherence the rating authorities into over rating aluminum
: wire?
:
: Or perhaps the answer is that a large number of ignorant people
: overload their home electrical circuits and then blame the resulting
: fire on the wires?
: --
:
: Cheers,
:
: John B.
:
:
:Or that early aluminum home wiring systems didn't properly take into
:account the oxidation that always forms on aluminum, and its greater
:thermal expansion, resulting in dangerous high impedance connections.
:
:The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
:doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
:current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
:weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
:properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
:essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
:market.

:Ask any electrical inspector how many times he has found a coin
:inserted in the old screw type fuse blocks, or oversize fuse wire in
:the even older type of fuses. I have even seen a piece of bent wire
:inserted in a fuse box that was intended to prevent a conventional
:"breaker" from tripping.


What the **** has that got to with aluminum wire? The aluminum wire that
was used for branch circuits in houses in the late sixities and early 70s
is crap. The alloy used was unsuitable -- it has very much movement with
temperature, that movement doesn't match the expansion and contraction
of the devices it's terminated on, and it's very prone to oxidation. In
addition, the devices used allowed the wire to creep, creating loose
connections, which leads to heat, which leads to fire. The stuff is
unsafe, as installed. Poor modifications to it make it worse. Lots of
those have been done by supposedly qualified electricians.


Strange :-) I worked on electrical systems, both interior and exterior
in the 1970's and never found a great deal of difference in the wire
used, in fact sometimes it came off the same roll. I'm thinking of
something like #4 stranded aluminum that we used for both entrances as
well as high current interior wiring. And, by the way, pure aluminum
doesn't corrode to any great extent, or at least there is some stuff
called Alclad that is made from a high strength aluminum alloy sheet
metal clad with a pure aluminum coating. Very commonly used in
aircraft structures see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alclad

There is also an aluminum clad steel sheeting that I've seen used for
roofing and even an aluminum coated steel wire, again used to reduce
corrosion.


\

The aluminum wire that's used for transmission lines is different, and
works quite well for that. So does the aluminum wire that's nearly
universally used for service feeders in the US. So does the modern
aluminum wire that's sometimes used for branch circuits; it's a
different alloy, that has expansion much better matched to the devices
it's terminated in, and the dangers of oxidation and the requirement
to use an anti-corrosive paste on splices and terminations makes it
perform as well as copper.


Also see:
https://www.amesweb.info/Materials/T..._Aluminum.aspx
there seems to be a very small difference between any of the alloys.

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #78  
Old February 16th 19, 07:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Front cracking noise

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 21:41:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/15/2019 8:23 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
market.


Ask any electrical inspector how many times he has found a coin
inserted in the old screw type fuse blocks, or oversize fuse wire in
the even older type of fuses. I have even seen a piece of bent wire
inserted in a fuse box that was intended to prevent a conventional
"breaker" from tripping.


There have always been, and will always be, totally stupid homeowner
mistakes. That's not the source of the risk with aluminum wiring, except
perhaps in the hands of an incompetent do-it-yourselfer. Especially when
it was first popularized, safe use practices were apparently just beyond
the skill set of the typical electrician.

And these days, fixing the problem is very costly. Our good friends (now
living in a distant state) were trying to sell their condo, one with
aluminum wiring. It added greatly to the complication and expense.

Or go to any housing supply store and see the "extension cords" that
allow 6 or 8 devices to be plugged into a single wall socket.


I think that's much less of a problem than it used to be. LED lights
draw far less current than incandescents. Modern TVs, stereos etc. are
also much less current-hungry.

If you don't plug two toasters and a hair dryer into the same circuit as
your vacuum cleaner, you'll probably be OK. And if you're not OK, the
breaker will trip, assuming you haven't disabled it.


But a great many people just don't understand. "If the breaker blows
it is the fault of the breaker!"

I would use my wife as an example. A really good cook, took care of
the kid well, watches the pennies, and has, literally, no concept of
electrical loads. By screaming and hollering I've convinced her not to
connect more then one device to one outlet but I suspect that way down
deep inside she considers that as simply some sort of male fetish.

As I've noticed that other people's wives seem to also have the idea
that extension cords with many receptacle sockets are a great
invention I doubt that my wife is unique :-)


--
Cheers,
John B.


  #79  
Old February 16th 19, 07:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Front cracking noise

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 03:46:53 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 01:06:22 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:01:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:

Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.

There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
concerned with cost in that regard.

Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg


By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)

Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
repair.

Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
Hope this helps.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had
aluminium wiring in it.

Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.

Cheers

You are being a little ridiculous, aren't you. All commercial wiring
used in the U.S. is rated for it's voltage and amperage carrying
capacity. Do you actually believe that the aluminum wire makers have
somehow coherence the rating authorities into over rating aluminum
wire?

Or perhaps the answer is that a large number of ignorant people
overload their home electrical circuits and then blame the resulting
fire on the wires?
--

Cheers,

John B.


Or that early aluminum home wiring systems didn't properly take into
account the oxidation that always forms on aluminum, and its greater
thermal expansion, resulting in dangerous high impedance connections.

The fact that aluminum is used from the generating plant right up to your
doorstep indicates that aluminum can be used safely for high voltage, high
current circuits. However, either because the home aluminum wiring systems
weren't properly designed, or because installers didn't install them
properly, they caused a disproportionate number of house fires, which
essentially resulting in aluminum house wiring disappearing from the
market.


Ask any electrical inspector how many times he has found a coin
inserted in the old screw type fuse blocks, or oversize fuse wire in
the even older type of fuses. I have even seen a piece of bent wire
inserted in a fuse box that was intended to prevent a conventional
"breaker" from tripping.

Or go to any housing supply store and see the "extension cords" that
allow 6 or 8 devices to be plugged into a single wall socket.
--

Cheers,

John B.


So idiots only use aluminum wiring? Or is it that something about aluminum
wiring is inherently less idiot proof, or even unsafe with non-idiots?


In my personal experience I can only say that during the period that I
worked as an electrician we had essentially no problems due to using
aluminum wire, whether interior or exterior.

Which is not to say that we had no problems at all. The barracks were
multi story open bay barracks housing perhaps 50 -75 men per bay and
were wired for florescent light and over head cooling fans and had
been in use with essentially no problems for, perhaps 10 years. At
some period the individual squadrons had walled the open bays off and
made 4 man rooms down both sides of an open hallway.

Then, the Base Exchange started selling 110 VAC window air
conditioners and strangely every little 4 man room scratched up enough
money to buy an air conditioner and suddenly the #4 aluminum entrance
cables were melting off the poles :-)

As I was a retired Air Force Master Sergeant the company picked me to
around and try to convince the various squadrons to stop using the air
conditioners...

And in talking to the Squadron Commanders and 1st Sergeants I
discovered that they had no idea what I was talking about when I tried
to explain about designed electrical loads versus what the lads in the
barracks were now creating.

Now, at that period the usual rank for a Squadron Commander would be
perhaps a captain or a major or even a Lt. Colonel in a really big
squadron so we are talking about an individual with a collage degree
and if an academy graduate then an engineering degree (I believe) and
not a one of them understood what I was talking about when I started
telling them about designed electrical loads versus overloads, and the
dangers of electrical overloads.

My sense is that average male doesn't really understand electricity
:-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #80  
Old February 16th 19, 08:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Front cracking noise

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 21:46:02 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/15/2019 7:38 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:11:11 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 9:08:29 AM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2019 at 2:40:00 AM UTC-5, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:11:39 -0800 (PST), Steve Weeks
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 8:12:07 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:

Almost all of this is unfounded speculation.

There was no speculation at all; well, except for being skeptical about
aluminum wire. I haven't serviced a Shimano dynohub, so I'll take
your word for that. But aluminum has only 61% of the electrical
conductivity of copper, which would make it a strange choice. It's
cheaper than copper, but Shimano doesn't strike me as being *that*
concerned with cost in that regard.

Aluminum wire is quite commonly used in "exterior electrical works" -
house wiring, etc., for two reasons, (1) it is lighter in weight for a
given gauge and (2) it is substantially cheaper then copper. It is
common enough that aluminum -copper and copper -aluminum connectors
are commonly stocked by commercial electrical suppliers.
See: https://bit.ly/2SytkSg


By guess is that Shimano uses the (1) reason :-)

Also, why are you so defensive? I said at the outset that my overhaul
was of a different hub, but was presented as an example of a dynohub
repair.

Dan Burkhart has a video of a Shimano dynohub repair he
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXptXRqxj9c
It looks like cup/cone bearings as you indicated. Also, unlike the hub
I serviced, there was no need to unsolder the output wire!
Hope this helps.
--

Cheers,

John B.

Aluminium wiring has a VERY BAD reputation in house wiring due to the
number of fires it has caused. I would NEVER buy a house that had aluminium wiring in it.

Do a search with: aluminium wiring and fires" to see just how dangerous that crap is.

Cheers


I wouldn't buy a house with aluminum wiring, and yet most of the power
system up to your house is all aluminum wires.

According to a number of studies done here in Canada a house with aluminium wiring is 55 times more likely to have a fire than one with copper wiring. Therefore, NO! I would NOT buy a house with aluminium wiring.

Cheers


You mean that a house in Canada "code wired" with aluminum wire is
more likely to burn down due to the wiring than a house "code wired"
with copper wires?


I believe that is the case, from what I've read and heard.


It seems really strange. #8 wire @60 degrees(C) can carry 40 amps if
copper and 30 amps if aluminum, #4 copper = 70 amps versus aluminum at
55, and so on. One would assume that if the proper sized breakers were
used that amperage would be restricted to safe levels.

On the other hand, I've lived in houses where several rooms were wired
together and the breaker was sized to limit the current based on three
rooms all drawing max current for the wire size and I've also lived in
houses where the breakers/fuses were overridden... everyone knows that
a penny in the fuse holder eliminates all those ridiculous lights out
problems.

--
Cheers,
John B.


 




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