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my fixie doesn't need improvement



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 17th 18, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,607
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2018-02-16 18:09, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 10:32:17 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-02-16 09:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 9:27:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 12:25:29 PM UTC-6, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-02-14 09:22, AMuzi wrote:
but for some of you...

https://cyclingindustry.news/new-pat...n-bike-system/







And then, way out in the boonies, your battery gives out.

The guys writing that patent may not have much of a clue about
serious MTB riding.

Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic
shifting? I doubt it.


No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then
the front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous
region.


... Because anyone who has owned and ridden a Shimano Di2 bike
would fall on their butt laughing at your nonsense about a
battery giving out. Ha Ha Ho Ho. On my Di2 road bike the
batteries last 2 to 3 years between charges. Again that is 2 to
3 YEARS between charges. I suspect you replace your shift cables
more often than I charge the battery on my Di2 bike. Ha Ha Ho
Ho.

And just for your information. When a Di2 battery gets weak and
loses the ability to function, the front derailleur shifting
will stop first.


Exactly. And I don't want that to happen. Most definitely not on my
MTB.


... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power
windows, power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric
shifters on bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of
it.

Fine, but the likelihood of running out your battery on current Di2
is about the same risk as breaking a cable. And unlike a broken
cable, there is a flashing warning light before a Di2 battery dies.


I have heard different stories. Maybe the technology has improved by now
but what people said was that frequent FD shifting eats a lot of battery
juice. On my MTB I am shifting the FD all the time. Often hundreds of
shifts per ride, much more so than the RD. Similar on the road bike but
that sees way less shifting. I can see electric shifting work on a road
bike. But why? Heck, I don't even miss the index shifting I have on the
MTB when I am riding my road bike with friction shifters. It suffices.

Young riders, different story. Yesterday I came up on another rider at
the onset of an incline. KKKRACK ... rat-tat-tat ... clunk ... KRRRRK.
Turns out his dad had given him his mid-80's Medici which had lived as a
garage queen. Chrome plated fork and seat stays, almost zero miles on
it. What a bike! But ... friction shifters. It seemed like someone
driving a truck with non-synchronized gears for the first time.

It is said that someone once asked Edie Marckx whether he ever missed
a shift with his down tube shifters. He replied, "I haven't missed a
shift since I was 12 years old"


Full confession: I have missed shifts.


Sounds as though your young rider needs more practice.


Yes. As I said he just got this bike from his dad and didn't know index
shifters. 20-30 more rides and he'll have it down. He is not the type of
person that would quit and he was able to hang on pretty good on the
uphill sections.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #23  
Old February 17th 18, 09:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,607
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2018-02-16 17:56, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:


[...]

... And then hundreds/thousands of shifts later, the rear
shifting will stop. So you have weeks or months of warning long
before the rear derailleur stops shifting with Di2.


IMO there is stuff that mankind doesn't need so badly. Power windows,
power locks, automatic transmissions in cars. Or electric shifters on
bikes. I've got none of that and I don't want any of it.


I think I *might* argue in favor of the auto transmission option as it
is my understanding that it is possible for the auto transmission to
give better fuel consumption then hand shifting.



It generally is the opposite which can easily be seen when comparing
window stickers on the dealer lot. When we bought our cars in the late
90's automatics were about 10% worse than the same model with stick
shift. An exception could be very new transmissions and continually
variable ones.


... However, I believe
that this depends on both the driver and the use that the vehicle is
put to.



Yes. The other major advantage is that stick-shift handles better on icy
roads. That doesn't matter much in Thailand but it does in the
California Sierras.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #25  
Old February 17th 18, 10:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 290
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:


[...]


Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better
than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly
shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can
be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of
thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction
shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do
that. Can Di2?


Of course.



So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift
from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys


3-3.5 sec. (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time.

I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with
indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters.


I don't think so. One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting.



Maybe you have the Di2-n version with a nuclear drive ...


No just standard Ultegra Di2.


[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

  #26  
Old February 17th 18, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,493
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 1:05:08 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 8:57:49 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-02-17 01:28, wrote:
On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 7:32:10 PM UTC+1, Joerg wrote:


[...]


Actually, in some situations ye olde friction shifters are better
than anything that came later. In situations where you must quickly
shift from a very high gear straight to almost the lowest, that can
be achieved in about one second simple by an opposite flick of
thumb and index finger on the downtube levers. Only with friction
shifters. Ok, a Rohloff or a similar hub transmission could also do
that. Can Di2?

Of course.



So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift
from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys


3-3.5 sec. (11 speed ) under full load and out of the saddle if you want (it will make some noise) and the FD is trimmed after that. You can shift front and rear at the same time.

I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with
indexed ones on the handlebar or drifters.


I don't think so. One may have some reasons to prefer friction shifters but speed of shifting can't be a reason. Strange that Pro riders don't use friction shifters anymore because they like fast shifting.


And it doesn't matter in the real world, at least not on the road. The perfect example is the Cat's Hill Criterium in Los Gatos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrG12-aG_Xc It has a hard left (or right, depending on the year) up a 20% climb on Nicholson Ave. Back in the '70s, when everyone was on friction, the set up before the hill was everyone shifting up to their last gear -- a 19 or 21 -- a second before the turn, coasting through turn and then over-spinning until momentum was lost and then out of the saddle grinding. You hit the top, flop down into the saddle, bobble for your gears and then drop it one or two cogs. Nowadays with STI and Di2 that can shift under load, you don't need to run up the cassette before you hit a hill. You keep your hands on the bars, shift up as you're hitting the bottom of the hill and keep shift as momentum wanes and the grade sets in. You can shift out of the saddle as you go unlike friction shifting.

The same goes with shifting to the small cog. Back in the day, you would hump up some hill out of the saddle, and assuming the hill had a short enough crest, you would spin across it and then dump the freewheel over the other side. These days, you can stay out of the saddle and shift down for the flat crest and keep shifting over the other side. The dope with friction is in your rear-view mirror.

The reason you had to shift the whole freewheel is that you couldn't get to your shifters once the hill went up or down or because you couldn't shift under load. For those on modern equipment, those concerns are a thing of the past. Shifting into your spokes is also a thing of the past for the most part -- or missing a shift.

Like I said, STI changed racing. I raced before and after, and it was like night and day for someone like me who climbed out of the saddle. Crank, crank, crank, flop down into the saddle get the next gear, stand up . . . rinse, lather, repeat. In crits there was no longer that pack-wide wobble as everyone reached down to shift coming out of a corner or into a corner. That brings up another point. Crits got faster (and I got older) with people sprinting and shifting out of corners.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #27  
Old February 18th 18, 02:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 2,924
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 12:04:58 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-02-17 10:31, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 09:27:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-02-15 11:03, wrote:
Have you ever ridden or lived with a bike with electronic shifting?
I doubt it.


No but I have met a guy who had a battery fail mid-ride and then the
front DR quit. Which was just peachy in the mountainous region.


I don't see a problem:
https://www.google.com/search?q=usb++hand+crank+charger&tbm=isch
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hand+crank+usb+charger
Or, build your own:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXmqs8DIHf8 (4:04)


You could also strap a little Honda generator onto the rear rack.


I'll assume that means you don't like the hand crank generator idea.

I have one and find it quite practical (although I've never had to use
it in a lighting emergency). It will deliver 5v at about 500ma for
furious cranking and 200ma at a comfortable rate. That's:
5v * 0.2A = 1 watt
The Shimano SM-BTR2 battery, that powers the Di2, is rated at 7.4v at
500 ma-hr:
https://www.cykelpartner.dk/shimano-di2-dura-ace-batteri-built-in-type_IBTDN1101.html
7.4 * 0.5 = 3.7 watt-hrs
It will take:
3.7 watt-hrs / 1 watt = 3.7 hrs
of moderate cranking to charge fully charge the battery. My guess(tm)
is that it will operate just fine at 25% of capacity, or about 1 hr of
cranking. Switch hands and take turns cranking the generator, and you
should be ok.

Honda doesn't make miniature gas engine models, which are usually
custom built:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=miniature+model+gasoline+engines
I've been thinking of grafting a PM motor as a generator onto a string
trimmer motor. However, I think a steam engine, with a boiler that
will run on either a solar concentrator or open fire, might be more
interesting.



--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #28  
Old February 18th 18, 02:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,418
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/16/2018 9:09 PM, John B. wrote:


It is said that someone once asked Edie Marckx whether he ever missed
a shift with his down tube shifters. He replied, "I haven't missed a
shift since I was 12 years old"


I never really believed Eddy's claim about never missing a shift. He
rode Campy, didn't he?

Was there ever anybody who didn't miss shifts with 1970s Campy stuff?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old February 18th 18, 02:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 6,418
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On 2/17/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:

So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift
from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys

I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with
indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters.


With friction, you may be able to slam a shift faster across the entire
cassette under the right circumstances. But that tiny time advantage
will be lost after just a few normal shifts.

It doesn't matter to me for my riding. I still use friction shifters on
several bikes. But I certainly don't do it because of faster shifts.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old February 18th 18, 03:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 3,967
Default my fixie doesn't need improvement

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 20:19:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/17/2018 2:58 PM, Joerg wrote:

So give us some numbers here, in seconds. How long does it take to shift
from large-small to small large, in one swoop? Faster than this below?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SHJ7KoJIys

I can shift a lot faster than that with friction shifters. Not with
indexed ones on the handlebar or brifters.


With friction, you may be able to slam a shift faster across the entire
cassette under the right circumstances. But that tiny time advantage
will be lost after just a few normal shifts.

It doesn't matter to me for my riding. I still use friction shifters on
several bikes. But I certainly don't do it because of faster shifts.


I even read a description of shifting both front and rear derailers at
the same time. Reach across the frame, thumb on one shifter, finger on
the other. Twist your hand and shift the rear derailer from the
smallest cog to the largest and with the same movement the front from
the largest to the smallest.

Think how many time you shift from the highest gear to the lowest in
one fell swoop on your usual Sunday ride :-?
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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