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Ouch. This happened to me once



 
 
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  #91  
Old February 26th 18, 04:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,107
Default Ouch. This happened to me once

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 12:22:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And those ignore interactions with bicyclists. I know a smart and
dedicated bike advocate who has worked a long time trying to influence
them to teach respect for cyclists, care when passing cyclists, etc.
She's also lobbied to get appropriate questions into the official
driver's license exams. She's been repeatedly rebuffed, but she keeps
trying.


She's holding the wrong end of the stick.

No amount of instruction will give a driver the gut-deep understanding
that is required when one's spine is making several life-and-death
decisions per second.

What she needs to do is to say "Our teenagers wrap themselves around
trees and crash into other vehicles because they are trying to learn
too many things at once. We should start teaching the rules of the
road a few years ahead of time, and take our children out on their
little bikes for on-the-road supervised practice. Then when they turn
sixteen, all they will need to learn is how to control a car."

*That* would give the drivers a gut-deep understanding of how bikes
move.

But it's quite out of the question, of course. It would cost almost
as much as building ten feet of separated bike path, and you'd have to
pay it again every year. No way the taxpayers would ever stand for
such a ridiculous expense.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

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  #92  
Old February 26th 18, 04:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,809
Default Ouch. This happened to me once

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 14:55:54 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 2/23/2018 1:29 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 11:21:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 2/19/2018 10:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...shing-car.html

(I was test riding a customer's race bike when Asian Kitchen
delivery turned in. They replaced his bike.)

How odd! The magic paint somehow failed to prevent the collision!

In the U.S. it would have been mirror image, so a right hook. Over
there, it's a left hook. Either way, it's a common collision.

And this illustrates the weirdness of the bike lane concept. Under
what circumstances would a straight-ahead motoring lane be placed
between the curb and a lane where turns are permitted? And when
would a motorist think it's safe to "undertake" like that when a
vehicle has its turn signal blinking?


It's an interesting question. The legalities of course hinge on the
specifics of the UK traffic laws and I have no idea what they are.
For that matter, I don't know what the law says about this in
Minnesota. As a cyclist, if I was in that situation I would stop and
give way to the car- even if it was my right of way, in a collision
the car would win. Sometimes drivers will signal to me that they have
seen me and to proceed, but I never assume they've seen me otherwise.

There is a discussion locally about pedestrian safety. So far this
year, some 30 pedestrians have been hit by vehicles in St. Paul. A
few years ago a law was passed giving pedestrians the right of way at
all intersections except where controlled by a stoplight and walk
signal as that governs right of way in those intersections. However,
drivers and pedestrians are getting worse at it rather than better
over time! between 1/1 - 2/11/16 there were 19 car-ped collisions and
2 car-bike collisions in St. Paul; the same period in 2017 it was 25
and 0; this year it as been 30 and 2. One pedestrian fatality and 27
injured this year, no bicyclist fatalities and two with injuries.

https://www.stpaul.gov/departments/p...a-city-st-paul


Yes, that's how the numbers usually trend. But somehow people fixate
on bicycling as being dangerous. Go figure.


Many times I see pedestrians- sometimes at the last second- on dark
roads wering dark clothes with no reflective surfaces or illumination.
These are also usually the folks walking out into traffic at a corner or
sometimes in mid-block. Oi. The fashion heareabouts for dark clothing
seems to be on the upswing. There are an amazing number of unlit,
non-reflective cyclists out at night too. And what really amazes me is
the number of these folks wearing hoodies and blocking their peripheral
vision. Whassup with that? I find it a bit hard to blame the driver in
those collisions.


  #93  
Old February 26th 18, 10:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
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Posts: 1,028
Default Ouch. This happened to me once

Joy Beeson writes:

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 12:22:24 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And those ignore interactions with bicyclists. I know a smart and
dedicated bike advocate who has worked a long time trying to influence
them to teach respect for cyclists, care when passing cyclists, etc.
She's also lobbied to get appropriate questions into the official
driver's license exams. She's been repeatedly rebuffed, but she keeps
trying.


She's holding the wrong end of the stick.

No amount of instruction will give a driver the gut-deep understanding
that is required when one's spine is making several life-and-death
decisions per second.

What she needs to do is to say "Our teenagers wrap themselves around
trees and crash into other vehicles because they are trying to learn
too many things at once. We should start teaching the rules of the
road a few years ahead of time, and take our children out on their
little bikes for on-the-road supervised practice. Then when they turn
sixteen, all they will need to learn is how to control a car."

*That* would give the drivers a gut-deep understanding of how bikes
move.


I suspect you're right. If that could be shown with some sort of
quantitative evidence it's not completely inconceivable that car
insurance companies would give young drivers a break for experience
cyling in traffic. Obviously an objective measure of useful experience
would be needed. Car insurance is a significant expense, so provides
a significant incentive.

One problem, of course, is that eventually one of those children would
die, and the "if it saves one life" brigade would do their very best to
shut the whole thing down.

But it's quite out of the question, of course. It would cost almost
as much as building ten feet of separated bike path, and you'd have to
pay it again every year. No way the taxpayers would ever stand for
such a ridiculous expense.


--
  #94  
Old February 26th 18, 11:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,194
Default Ouch. This happened to me once

On 2018-02-23 10:32, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 08:42:11 -0800, Joerg
wrote:
Maybe the guy didn't think a MTB could be doing north of 20mph.


I think many drivers assume cyclists are going slowly and don't bother
to actually look and judge the speed. Unless they are in the lycra
clown suit, head down and obviously working hard.


Good point. I don't own lycra stuff, always riding in jeans shorts and
T-shirt. Most of them don't have Fox, Rockshox or similar logos and when
coming off a singletrack they can look grungy. The MTB is generally in a
mud-caked condition.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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