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#101
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On Thu, 10 May 2018 06:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote: On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 7:39:42 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Wed, 9 May 2018 21:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 1:35:50 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-09 10:08, jbeattie wrote: I'm sure Joerg has an anecdote where thousands of unlit persons were killed by left turning cars. All the dyno using people in NL and elsewhere are in horrible danger Danger, sometimes yes. I've had close calls but not terribly close. However, like many other risks that can be reduced with lights so I use lights. Never had a close call with the MagicShine clones. They see me much better. And I've never had that close call with even a 2.4 Watt halogen light powered by a standard dynamo. I don't need them to see me better. They see me fine, according to my decades of riding experience. Again, riding home after teaching a night class, I had motorists up ahead of me wait over 20 seconds for me to pass before they either turned left or pulled out of a side street. I _never_ had any indication a motorist did not see my headlight. I realize I live in an area so safe there aren't even any mountain lions. And I never heard of a death around here caused by a lack of sunglasses. But I still don't believe Joerg's area is the death pit he pretends. - Frank Krygowski I believe from my own experiences that a flashing light does attract attention better then a steady light, and tests by various highway agencies seems to show the same thing. I believe I've told the story about the guy with the bright orange knee socks who passed me on a straight section of road and nearly a kilometer away you could still see those orange legs going up and down, up and down :-) I agree flashing lights are more conspicuous than equivalent steady lights. I also agree the uniquely human left-right-left-right motion is very noticeable. To carry this further, so are flipping flags on six-foot-tall poles, as were once fashionable. (Vermont Bicycle Tours required them on every bike on their guided tours of country roads.) Why don't we have lots of flippy flag fanatics posting here? Only Scharf has done that, and his flag wasn't even vertical. I just don't think all those devices are necessary. Joerg talks with horror about his near misses, and about hearing from friends who heard from friends about other friends who nearly died. I ride prominently in the lane and I have none of those horror experiences. None. As a further benefit, I have no door zone worries, I dissuade right hooks, I have more room to maneuver around potholes, etc. - Frank Krygowski I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider. RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the door if necessary. Re right hooks, just look behind you before you reach the intersection... I've never actually seen an auto lurking in terror because I have a flashing light but I'm not adverse to using one as it might make some notice me a bit sooner but on the other hand I wouldn't argue that with out one the rider was in great danger. I also wear bright colored jerseys as I assume it makes a rider more visible. I suspect that wearing a black jersey on a dark night with no lights is not the best approach... although I've it here, done while riding the wrong way, too :-) The waving flag was and I think still is mandatory for motor vehicles operating on military air fields. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#102
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 10/05/18 21:34, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 9 May 2018 21:40:15 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 5:24:35 AM UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote: I do agree though since most people change into cycling gear, that worrying about putting a light on isn’t much of a hassle really. Interesting point. I change into cycling gear only for long recreational rides. When I jump on the bike to go to a store, etc. I'm always in normal street clothes. For me, searching for a battery powered bike light, mounting it, keeping it charged etc. is too much trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to find strong correlation between always riding in special bike garb, and preferring removable battery lights; or conversely, usually riding in ordinary clothes and preferring always-ready dyno lights. - Frank Krygowski I hate to be a heretic but I suspect that type of light used and how it is powered depend largely on what people are doing with the bike. You mention "jumping on the bike to go to the store". When we lived in Phuket that was a 70 Km round trip. Now we've moved (about 2 hours north of Bangkok), it is more like a half an hour, round trip. For at least 10 years.... more now I think of it, I've never used a bicycle light to see with. When you are a degree or two off the equator it is pretty easy to find enough day light to ride in :-) I had, for a while, a sidewall generator but as I always rode in the daytime I took it off. If I were still living in up state New Hampshire where I grew up my lighting would likely be radically different :-) I have a dynamo powered head light and battery powered tail light. I like to be able to get on and ride. If I go for a ride and it is a foggy morning or an early start before the sun is up, or a storm blows through, I turn my lights on. If I go for a ride in the evening and the sun goes down before I get home, I turn my lights on. It is a 25km round trip for me to ride to the nearest shops. I usually wear "special bike garb". I've gone against Frank's hypothesis, I don't do the same as you and I have mixed batteries and dynamo! -- JS |
#103
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 10/05/18 21:39, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 9 May 2018 21:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 1:35:50 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-09 10:08, jbeattie wrote: I'm sure Joerg has an anecdote where thousands of unlit persons were killed by left turning cars. All the dyno using people in NL and elsewhere are in horrible danger Danger, sometimes yes. I've had close calls but not terribly close. However, like many other risks that can be reduced with lights so I use lights. Never had a close call with the MagicShine clones. They see me much better. And I've never had that close call with even a 2.4 Watt halogen light powered by a standard dynamo. I don't need them to see me better. They see me fine, according to my decades of riding experience. Again, riding home after teaching a night class, I had motorists up ahead of me wait over 20 seconds for me to pass before they either turned left or pulled out of a side street. I _never_ had any indication a motorist did not see my headlight. I realize I live in an area so safe there aren't even any mountain lions. And I never heard of a death around here caused by a lack of sunglasses. But I still don't believe Joerg's area is the death pit he pretends. - Frank Krygowski I believe from my own experiences that a flashing light does attract attention better then a steady light, and tests by various highway agencies seems to show the same thing. I believe I've told the story about the guy with the bright orange knee socks who passed me on a straight section of road and nearly a kilometer away you could still see those orange legs going up and down, up and down :-) I used to have a battery powered flashing headlight for urban bicycle warfare .. ahem .. riding. When I swapped to a dynamo powered steady headlight I had fewer SMIDSY incidents. Not zero, but certainly fewer. -- JS |
#104
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 5/10/2018 6:15 PM, John B. wrote:
I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider. RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the door if necessary. Um... no, that's not sensible. Consider what happens if you're riding just 15 kph and a driver pops his door open as you pass his rear bumper. There's no way to stop in time. If you're lucky, you'll hit his door squarely and crumple beneath it. If you're unlucky, you'll snag the door edge with your right handlebar, the bike will steer to the right, your body will be thrown down to the left, and the motor vehicle you were worried about will run over you. Unlike mountain lion attacks, dooring really is a danger. Most states don't record it as a car-bike collision, because they record those only if the car was moving. But Chicago did keep track, and found that something like 20% of car-bike crashes were doorings. Don't ride in the door zone. Just don't. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#105
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On 5/10/2018 6:15 PM, John B. wrote: : : I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider. : RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the : door if necessary. :Um... no, that's not sensible. :Consider what happens if you're riding just 15 kph and a driver pops his :door open as you pass his rear bumper. There's no way to stop in time. :If you're lucky, you'll hit his door squarely and crumple beneath it. If :you're unlucky, you'll snag the door edge with your right handlebar, the :bike will steer to the right, your body will be thrown down to the left, :and the motor vehicle you were worried about will run over you. :Unlike mountain lion attacks, dooring really is a danger. Most states :don't record it as a car-bike collision, because they record those only :if the car was moving. But Chicago did keep track, and found that :something like 20% of car-bike crashes were doorings. And we have a $1000 fine for causing an accident by dooring -- and the cops write the tickets. on't ride in the door zone. Just don't. Yeah, you live in smallsville. If I don't ride in the door zone, it takes me three times as long to get to work. -- sig 22 |
#106
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On Thu, 10 May 2018 23:06:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 5/10/2018 6:15 PM, John B. wrote: I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider. RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the door if necessary. Um... no, that's not sensible. Consider what happens if you're riding just 15 kph and a driver pops his door open as you pass his rear bumper. There's no way to stop in time. If you're lucky, you'll hit his door squarely and crumple beneath it. If you're unlucky, you'll snag the door edge with your right handlebar, the bike will steer to the right, your body will be thrown down to the left, and the motor vehicle you were worried about will run over you. Unlike mountain lion attacks, dooring really is a danger. Most states don't record it as a car-bike collision, because they record those only if the car was moving. But Chicago did keep track, and found that something like 20% of car-bike crashes were doorings. Don't ride in the door zone. Just don't. Funny, I can't remember ever having problem with "door zones" and there was one area, actually a small bridge in a village I used to pass through where cars congregated. There was a bank just at the edge of the bridge which had ATM's there were always cars parked there. I never gave it much thought but what I think I did was to move out further into the road. I do remember having a couple of people open their door just a crack and peer out at me and then close the door and wait for me to pass. One thing that is difficult in discussing traffic in different countries is the different laws and customs. In Thailand, for example, if you were to open the door of your car into someone's path and they literally ripped your door off and punted it down the road that would be your fault and you would be liable for both repairs to your car, the "door ripper" and any damage the door did subsequent to being ripped off. But something that is happening in Bangkok at the moment might be of interest in the U.S. Bangkok is literally covered with surveillance cameras which are now being programmed to stop the rather reckless lane changing one sees in Bangkok. As of yesterday, in one day, they caught 750 vehicles making illegal lane changes and providing the program gets the go ahead traffic tickets will be mailed to the miscreants. The news article emphasized that each lane change is a separate offence so ten illegal lane changes equates to 10 tickets. Which, if the news article was accurate would equate to about 10,000 baht in fines. As a comparison, minimum wage here is 300 baht a day, at the moment. 10,000/300 = ~33 days of minimum wages. If the U.S. would install and program surveillance cameras to recognize bicycles and to identify those who break the various laws that control them it might put a large dent in the numbers of bicycle accidents. -- Cheers, John B. |
#107
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
John B. wrote:
If the U.S. would install and program surveillance cameras to recognize bicycles and to identify those who break the various laws that control them it might put a large dent in the numbers of bicycle accidents. If everyone feeling threatened by cager-staffed revenue enforcement unfairly interpreting those "various" laws switched to riding the bus, driving, ordering stuff from delivery outlets with their "highly qualified" drivers, yes. Statistics at work. Congratulations! |
#108
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 5/11/2018 12:33 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2018 23:06:28 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/10/2018 6:15 PM, John B. wrote: I suspect that you, like I, are what might be called a sensible rider. RE, door zones, just slow down a bit so you have time to dodge the door if necessary. Um... no, that's not sensible. Consider what happens if you're riding just 15 kph and a driver pops his door open as you pass his rear bumper. There's no way to stop in time. If you're lucky, you'll hit his door squarely and crumple beneath it. If you're unlucky, you'll snag the door edge with your right handlebar, the bike will steer to the right, your body will be thrown down to the left, and the motor vehicle you were worried about will run over you. Unlike mountain lion attacks, dooring really is a danger. Most states don't record it as a car-bike collision, because they record those only if the car was moving. But Chicago did keep track, and found that something like 20% of car-bike crashes were doorings. Don't ride in the door zone. Just don't. Funny, I can't remember ever having problem with "door zones" and there was one area, actually a small bridge in a village I used to pass through where cars congregated. There was a bank just at the edge of the bridge which had ATM's there were always cars parked there. I never gave it much thought but what I think I did was to move out further into the road. I do remember having a couple of people open their door just a crack and peer out at me and then close the door and wait for me to pass. One thing that is difficult in discussing traffic in different countries is the different laws and customs. In Thailand, for example, if you were to open the door of your car into someone's path and they literally ripped your door off and punted it down the road that would be your fault and you would be liable for both repairs to your car, the "door ripper" and any damage the door did subsequent to being ripped off. But something that is happening in Bangkok at the moment might be of interest in the U.S. Bangkok is literally covered with surveillance cameras which are now being programmed to stop the rather reckless lane changing one sees in Bangkok. As of yesterday, in one day, they caught 750 vehicles making illegal lane changes and providing the program gets the go ahead traffic tickets will be mailed to the miscreants. The news article emphasized that each lane change is a separate offence so ten illegal lane changes equates to 10 tickets. Which, if the news article was accurate would equate to about 10,000 baht in fines. As a comparison, minimum wage here is 300 baht a day, at the moment. 10,000/300 = ~33 days of minimum wages. If the U.S. would install and program surveillance cameras to recognize bicycles and to identify those who break the various laws that control them it might put a large dent in the numbers of bicycle accidents. Be careful what you wish: https://futurism.com/facial-recognit...social-credit/ This will not end with lane changes and jaywalking. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#109
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 2018-05-10 06:28, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 7:39:42 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Wed, 9 May 2018 21:52:32 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 1:35:50 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-09 10:08, jbeattie wrote: I'm sure Joerg has an anecdote where thousands of unlit persons were killed by left turning cars. All the dyno using people in NL and elsewhere are in horrible danger Danger, sometimes yes. I've had close calls but not terribly close. However, like many other risks that can be reduced with lights so I use lights. Never had a close call with the MagicShine clones. They see me much better. And I've never had that close call with even a 2.4 Watt halogen light powered by a standard dynamo. I don't need them to see me better. They see me fine, according to my decades of riding experience. Again, riding home after teaching a night class, I had motorists up ahead of me wait over 20 seconds for me to pass before they either turned left or pulled out of a side street. I _never_ had any indication a motorist did not see my headlight. I realize I live in an area so safe there aren't even any mountain lions. And I never heard of a death around here caused by a lack of sunglasses. But I still don't believe Joerg's area is the death pit he pretends. - Frank Krygowski I believe from my own experiences that a flashing light does attract attention better then a steady light, and tests by various highway agencies seems to show the same thing. I believe I've told the story about the guy with the bright orange knee socks who passed me on a straight section of road and nearly a kilometer away you could still see those orange legs going up and down, up and down :-) I agree flashing lights are more conspicuous than equivalent steady lights. I also agree the uniquely human left-right-left-right motion is very noticeable. To carry this further, so are flipping flags on six-foot-tall poles, as were once fashionable. (Vermont Bicycle Tours required them on every bike on their guided tours of country roads.) Flashing rear lights are great and I use them. They make a cyclist more noticeable than a car at the same distance. There are some that turn into flash mode when power comes on (without pressing the button) so with some simple electronics up front they could also be useful for dynamo-only situations. Though then they will go out when stopped which is not good. Why don't we have lots of flippy flag fanatics posting here? Only Scharf has done that, and his flag wasn't even vertical. I just don't think all those devices are necessary. Joerg talks with horror about his near misses, and about hearing from friends who heard from friends about other friends who nearly died. The usual nonsense because you don't read carefully. These were friends. People I hung out with all the time. And yes, they were hit by cars while cycling. Then there is the wife of a guy I regularly met on our dog walks. She was on a road bike and run over (literally) by a large pickup truck. It took years of medical attention and special training before she could even sit on a road bike again. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#110
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Dynamo/LED power conditioning
On 5/11/2018 7:36 AM, Joerg wrote:
Flashing rear lights are great and I use them. They make a cyclist more noticeable than a car at the same distance. There are some that turn into flash mode when power comes on (without pressing the button) so with some simple electronics up front they could also be useful for dynamo-only situations. Though then they will go out when stopped which is not good. For front lights I'd like to see the same law for bicycles as we have in most states for motorcycles, daytime running lights are mandatory. Modulated or flashing is better, but even solid is okay. For rear lights, most riders already use flashing rear lights. |
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