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#21
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 4:34*am, RonSonic wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: (p.s to Carl: tape, double bumpers, saddle angle etc were explicitly specified in great detail.) Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ I'd think that being so sophisticated that you deem one of the finer makes a joke Let's refine that for you. The Godiva is misnamed (not a mixte) and is dull, and the entire Waterford price list is a joke. Nothing can justify charging several multiples of the prices of fine bicycle makers like Mercian or Bob Jackson. Even if Waterford could brag the same pedigree, which it can't, ever, the Waterford price list would still be obscene. But you know, Ronni, this thread wouldn't have happened if Seaton didn't decide to slap me in the face with the Godiva. Weren't you the one telling us yesterday that Seaton would get away with it? Did you really expect me to let it go? I expect a quicker uptake from someone who's had the privilege of associating with me for fifteen years. you might have the ability to look at a ****ing picture and pick out the items of which there are two that aren't mentioned in Sheldon's glossary. Hint, they are prominent in the photo's and most bikes don't have them. Oh, I arrived at those two components as the only unidentified ones on the bike, and decided they must be folding couplings. I don't see that there is any shame in not knowing something and asking. Getting angry about someone else not knowing is the sign of someone with a very limited band of knowledge. I prefer not to clutter my mind but instead to know the people who know. First magnafluxing in a thread about aluminum seatposts and then this. Magnafluxing right next to a quote about treated surfaces, dear Ronni. Perfectly relevant. At least as relevant as you taking your foul temper out in any thread I'm in. Seems you have that getting to the pub problem solved. I haven't seen the inside of a pub in several years. I drink wine with my meals and consider pub-type smalltalk a waste of my time. For those who want to know what I said about Waterford that upset dear Ronni so, here it is: **** WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5.... and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. |
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#22
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 4:35*am, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: On Apr 25, 4:05 am, jim beam wrote: Andre Jute wrote: I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly that's an ignorant jobstian bull**** excuse. if the mechanicals are good and the microstructure good, that's all that matters to your ability to ride the damned thing. How it it "ignorant" to demand aesthetic satisfaction from the artifacts one owns. Stop blustering, Jimbo; it makes you sound like a troll. A Ford gets you there. A Bentley gets you there with a smile on your face. it's attributing more value to the aesthetics than the tech, that's why. * tech news group, remember? What, you can only post here if you use exclusive ugly gear? Wakey, wakey, Jumbo, half or more the bikes in America are sold for people to look cool on, not for an functional or technical superiority. Original text, in case you want to know, dealt with value for money and pedigree in steel bikes: snip more steel blathering andre, examine the facts associated with the following: corrosion price stiffness weight Yes, but since my steel bike is vastly overspecified for any demand I will ever place on it in service, the parameters are quite irrelevant. My technical interest is in the gearboxes and the tyres, and it is notable that my steel bike is lighter than two ali bikes I have with roughly the same spec (hub gearboxes, hub dynamoes, full touring/city gear). I find both ali and steel frames satisfactory, but steel more so for inexpressible reasons as well as those inherent in the design differences between the bikes. now quitcher bitchin. Eh, you're changing side are you? You now reckon that complaining about excessive Waterford pricing is "bitching". Make up your mind, Jumbo. (Nah,, don't bother. I'm just trolling you. I know you wouldn't waste Waterford money on a mere bike, even a carbon one.) Andre Jute Carpals of iron. IRON! I tell you. -- Ron Bales on Andre Jute |
#23
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 4:42*am, RonSonic wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:23:52 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: On Apr 25, 4:05*am, jim beam wrote: Andre Jute wrote: I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly that's an ignorant jobstian bull**** excuse. *if the mechanicals are good and the microstructure good, that's all that matters to your ability to ride the damned thing. How it it "ignorant" to demand aesthetic satisfaction from the artifacts one owns. Stop blustering, Jimbo; it makes you sound like a troll. A Ford gets you there. A Bentley gets you there with a smile on your face. Andre Jute *"The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo- Pelayo Ricart Medina yeah, and the brains of non-engineers need boiling in brine and vinegar sometimes. Especially the zero-aesthetic barbarians. Andre Jute The Real Thing -- slogan I coined for wool, later used for a fizzy drink Original text, in case you want to know, dealt with value for money and pedigree in steel bikes: Criticising Waterford as lacking "pedigree" is probably not a real strong argument. Nobody accused Waterford of having zero pedigree, Ronni. The problem is that Waterford just doesn't have the pedigree of say Bob Jackson or Mercian, but Waterford charges three to five times as much as they do -- not three to five per cent more, three to five whole multiples. Holy Moses, i've heard of the last of the big spenders, but Waterford is the last of the big chargers. And it isn't just a difference in depth of pedigree that makes Waterford look so greedy. At Bob Jackson (and possibly at Mercian too, I can't remember now and there are plenty on RBT to look it up) you get a bike without local frame-stresses because it is brazed in an open hearth for even heating, so there are technical superiorities too. And the historic connections, for instance Bob Jackson is the only place where you can get authorized Hetchins wavy chainstays. I have no connection with Bob Jackson or Mercian, who are both long- established traditional British bike makers; I normally order my bikes in the Benelux or Germany. Andre Jute I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. |
#24
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 24, 7:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote:
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE [drivelsnip] No, a Waterford is a work of art made by craftsmen. They are very pretty and that's why, if you have a couple grand burning a hole in your pocket, and love bicycles, you should buy one. If indeed it's the bike your heart desires. They do seem a few hundred bux overpriced to me--but whadda I know? That might be due to fancy dropouts or laquer or something I'm missing. People spend more on Harley farts. While I like pretty--and there are a few really lovely Waterfords plowing the streets here--these days decent frames are a mass commodity and really the least important part of a bike equation so long as they're the right size. Again--I see high end bikes for schlepps as being rolling art, that I appreciate, but not really an important component to the actual riding experience. My best neighbor friend, whose pooch is best buddies with mine, has a Serrota with a carbon rear end. The welds are quite nice, but not sanded or anything. I doubt that bike is any more reliable than my steel Redline, whose tigged joints are 80% as nice (except in a couple nasty hidden places) and which has no glued interfaces. My Redline fits me like a glove. Her Serotta probably saves her a pound and a half, has a slightly nicer finish, and costs $1500 more. Standard frames just are sorta boring these days. It's been a hundred years and we now have robots building bang on straight frames for peanuts. The actual build is much more interesting to me. The wheels and dialing are far more important than the frame--Taiwan's got us covered on that. Handlebars are more interesting than frames. 72.5..top tube.. 72.5. Zzzzzzz. It's a good time to be a cyclist. When you can buy a boring strong and reliable Asian frame for a couple hundred bux, then support your local economy by having wheels built by your LBS. Or even have them assemble the whole enchilada. Want coach lines? Put them on an El Camino where they belong. |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 4:46*am, AMuzi wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ Urethane layered with a tempered steel center. Keep the handlebar and caliper from denting frame tubes. Right. Here in Urp we have a thingy made by Hebie which bolts onto the bottom tube and reaches forward via spring loading to the fork and stops it turning that far. Inelegant, klunky, too much weight (you can tell I don't have one!). Idworx has a more elegant, simple and low- mass solution of a stop on the headset that prevents the handlebars turning more than 90 degrees to either side. Andre Jute "The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo- Pelayo Ricart Medina -- Andrew Muzi * www.yellowjersey.org/ * Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 24, 9:57*pm, AMuzi wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote: Andre Jute wrote: [carlsnip, with respect] [drivelsnip] We say "open frame" rather than "girl bike". In Sverige, we say "damcykel", or "ladie's bicycle"--but no one gives a **** if you're a guy on one. Just like the Dutch men on their creaky old omafiets. Whaddever. It's only in the states that people get their Tampax Slim impacted over it. I rode my restored girlie Raleigh Sprite here for a couple years till I tired of the giggles. (That and the fact that that **** of a bike would shimmy really good at 25mph, especially with a load on the Pletscher--another case for being against the nostalgia of old frames) |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 5:37*am, landotter wrote:
On Apr 24, 7:45*pm, Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE [drivelsnip] Ott cut my original so that he could go off into fairyland without inconvenient facts. Like this one: Waterford ... do seem a few hundred bux overpriced to me--but whadda I know? You shoulda read the post you snipped, Ott. A base Waterford frame is twenty-two hundreds, $2200 pricier than a top pedigree British bike. That's not "a few" hundred as you try to pretend. The evidence you cut is repeated below for your information. That might be due to fancy dropouts or laquer Nope. or something I'm missing Greed? Here's first the "drivelsnip" of hard facts restored: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5.... and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. ********* And here's Ott skipping through fairyland: No, a Waterford is a work of art made by craftsmen. They are very pretty and that's why, if you have a couple grand burning a hole in your pocket, and love bicycles, you should buy one. If indeed it's the bike your heart desires. They do seem a few hundred bux overpriced to me--but whadda I know? That might be due to fancy dropouts or laquer or something I'm *missing. People spend more on Harley farts. While I like pretty--and there are a few really lovely Waterfords plowing the streets here--these days decent frames are a mass commodity and really the least important part of a bike equation so long as they're the right size. Again--I see high end bikes for schlepps as being rolling art, that I appreciate, but not really an important component to the actual riding experience. My best neighbor friend, whose pooch is best buddies with mine, has a Serrota with a carbon rear end. The welds are quite nice, but not sanded or anything. I doubt that bike is any more reliable than my steel Redline, whose tigged joints are 80% as nice (except in a couple nasty hidden places) and which has no glued interfaces. My Redline fits me like a glove. Her Serotta probably saves her a pound and a half, has a slightly nicer finish, and costs $1500 more. Standard frames just are sorta boring these days. It's been a hundred years and we now have robots building bang on straight frames for peanuts. The actual build is much more interesting to me. The wheels and dialing are far more important than the frame--Taiwan's got us covered on that. Handlebars are more interesting than frames. 72.5..top tube.. 72.5. Zzzzzzz. It's a good time to be a cyclist. When you can buy a boring strong and reliable Asian frame for a couple hundred bux, then support your local economy by having wheels built by your LBS. Or even have them assemble the whole enchilada. Want coach lines? Put them on an El Camino where they belong. |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:02:03 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 4:34*am, RonSonic wrote: On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: (p.s to Carl: tape, double bumpers, saddle angle etc were explicitly specified in great detail.) Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ I'd think that being so sophisticated that you deem one of the finer makes a joke Let's refine that for you. The Godiva is misnamed (not a mixte) and is dull, and the entire Waterford price list is a joke. Nothing can justify charging several multiples of the prices of fine bicycle makers like Mercian or Bob Jackson. Even if Waterford could brag the same pedigree, which it can't, ever, the Waterford price list would still be obscene. But you know, Ronni, this thread wouldn't have happened if Seaton didn't decide to slap me in the face with the Godiva. Weren't you the one telling us yesterday that Seaton would get away with it? Did you really expect me to let it go? Some guy on the interwebs mocks your bike and you try to shut him up by writing a tantrum about some company that has nothing whatever to do with any of this. Please, explain how that works. Or will you just get revenge by typing something mean about Verizon? First magnafluxing in a thread about aluminum seatposts and then this. Magnafluxing right next to a quote about treated surfaces, dear Ronni. Perfectly relevant. At least as relevant as you taking your foul temper out in any thread I'm in. No, Andre. Magnafluxing has nothing whatever to do with anodized aluminum seatposts. Spin it how you will. Seems you have that getting to the pub problem solved. I haven't seen the inside of a pub in several years. I drink wine with my meals and consider pub-type smalltalk a waste of my time. It would do you far more good than what you're doing here. |
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WHY AN ANDRE JUTE POST IS THE PARADIGM
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:37:11 -0700, jim beam
wrote: Andre Jute wrote: On Apr 25, 4:06?am, Dan O wrote: I wouldn't mind trying an aluminum frame, and when hunting around e.g. Craigslist I do keep an eye open for Cannondale Gotta be a Cannondale. Smooth welding and beautiful lines. Last year I had a Cannondale Trekking Rohloff (probably a European-only model) on order but the factory sold out just as my order went in. Wonderfully satisfying custom-designed dropouts. -- AJ who givesa****? cut that sucker up and put it under the microscope - i'll tell you what's beautiful. Better yet, throw a leg over it and ride. You'll probably prefer the Klein that was mentioned next before this all got cut up for comment. Oh, and Andre would prefer the far prettier joint work and welding. Klein kept doing goofy non-industry-standard stuff that probably didn't help their marketing but they had some great ideas and designs and could build an aluminum bike that rode as nicely as any. and Klein and the like; but since I started out acquiring older, used (more affordable) bicycles, I have a bunch of gear now for 126 mm rear dropout spacing, and most of the quality frames available for this gear just happens to be made of steel. typically, aluminum is: cheaper stiffer - and thus more sable for non-freds lighter more corrosion resistant. is there some kind of myopia/ignorance-of-the-facts virus i've been missing out on? methinks you must be immune, anyway ;-) |
#30
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
AMuzi wrote:
Godiva? Way too complex. Nice clean Waterford open track frame:http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a seductively pretty format with polished stainless lugwork. YMMV. That's a nice bike. As in "look what I nice bike I found at the swap meet." For three grand, a bike frame had better be *special*. Like, "nobody in the world ever saw a bike like that" special, in a good way. Being technically unique but fundamentally ordinary, with tasty paint and lugs, won't do it. And anybody who wants me take a bike with tubies must pay me to do it. Sewups rank below their classmates, block chain and 13/16" seatposts, on my wish list. Chalo |
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