Better Road Signs or NO Road Signs

I've long believed road users would be better drivers/riders/pedestrians
if they had to watch out for road conditions and didnt get "comfort" or
"courage"from road signs (which encouraged many to drive on or above
the limit).

I feel bike riders fair best on the road and not on marked paths and
bike lanes and road signs lull many into a false sense of security.

So its interesting to hear the news from Holland.
(-courtesy- RACV- *RoyalAuto* April07)

-A town which removed ALL its road signs is claiming a 10% drop in
traffic casualties and a reduction in average speeds. The council in
Makkinga removed all road markings and signs three years ago and a
neighbouring town followed suit, but using different coloured road
surfaces to guide traffic.-

-European road saftey experts say the success of the move can be put
down to "unsafe safety": because the absence of signs means drivers
are unsure where to drive, they become more cautious-.


--
rooman

rooman Wrote:

-A town which removed ALL its road signs is claiming a 10% drop in
traffic casualties and a reduction in average speeds. The council in
Makkinga removed all road markings and signs three years ago and a
neighbouring town followed suit, but using different coloured road
surfaces to guide traffic.-

-European road saftey experts say the success of the move can be put
down to "unsafe safety": because the absence of signs means drivers
are unsure where to drive, they become more cautious-.

The human mind in all its glory..... I guess the only concern I would
have with regards to Cyclists is Europeans treat cyclists differently
than in Australia, in Europe they are not considered Moving Targets.

Makes sense, but would it work over here and where would you trial it ?
Seems like common sense and the sort of thing that works, which means
there is no chance of it being used in Australia.


--
MikeyOz

On Apr 23, 11:13 am, MikeyOz MikeyOz.2pg...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
rooman Wrote:



-A town which removed ALL its road signs is claiming a 10% drop in
traffic casualties and a reduction in average speeds. The council in
Makkinga removed all road markings and signs three years ago and a
neighbouring town followed suit, but using different coloured road
surfaces to guide traffic.-

-European road saftey experts say the success of the move can be put
down to "unsafe safety": because the absence of signs means drivers
are unsure where to drive, they become more cautious-.

The human mind in all its glory..... I guess the only concern I would
have with regards to Cyclists is Europeans treat cyclists differently
than in Australia, in Europe they are not considered Moving Targets.

Makes sense, but would it work over here and where would you trial it ?
Seems like common sense and the sort of thing that works, which means
there is no chance of it being used in Australia.

Apart from Mikey's cynicism (I don't feel like a moving target when I
ride), I wonder how well that sort of thing scales. It's fine to have
anarchy in small scale applications - like communism, it works in
small communities, but may not scale all that well. Once a place gets
big enough that not everyone knows everyone, these sorts of things can
often fall to bits. So how well does it scale outside of small
towns? And was the test site a small or a large town?

On 2007-04-23, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
It's fine to have anarchy in small scale applications - like
communism, it works in small communities, but may not scale all that
well. Once a place gets big enough that not everyone knows
everyone, these sorts of things can often fall to bits.

Incidentally, I never know whether to abuse someone in this town for
nearly running me over. What if they recognise me? What if I abuse
someone I end up working with? Will it be awkward? Argh, hard
decisions!

--
TimC
NOP NOP NOP NOP bang NOP NOP bang ouch
-- TimC spinning in the corner.

rooman Wrote:
I've long believed road users would be better drivers/riders/pedestrians
if they had to watch out for road conditions and didnt get "comfort" or
"courage"from road signs (which encouraged many to drive on or above
the limit).

I feel bike riders fair best on the road and not on marked paths and
bike lanes and road signs lull many into a false sense of security.

So its interesting to hear the news from Holland.
(-courtesy- RACV- *RoyalAuto* April07)

-A town which removed ALL its road signs is claiming a 10% drop in
traffic casualties and a reduction in average speeds. The council in
Makkinga removed all road markings and signs three years ago and a
neighbouring town followed suit, but using different coloured road
surfaces to guide traffic.-

-European road saftey experts say the success of the move can be put
down to "unsafe safety": because the absence of signs means drivers
are unsure where to drive, they become more cautious-.

I'm a supporter for no road signs.

Over the years as people get used to having signs around (and then
ignoring them) we have had to do more and more to get their attention.
Brighter colours, bigger signs, more frequent signs, flashing lights on
signs and the biggest joke of them all signs to tell us there is a sign
coming up.

Let people assess the conditions and drive/ride accordingly. Don't
blame road conditions for crashes. If the road is poor, drive more
slowly.


--
mitosis

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:10:53 +1000
mitosis wrote:

Over the years as people get used to having signs around (and then
ignoring them) we have had to do more and more to get their attention.
Brighter colours, bigger signs, more frequent signs, flashing lights on
signs and the biggest joke of them all signs to tell us there is a sign
coming up.

Umm.. so what's the difference between signs being ignored and no
signs?

Everyone who is ignoring a sign is using their own judgement....

Zebee

On Apr 23, 12:10 pm, mitosis mitosis.2ph...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com wrote:
rooman Wrote:



I've long believed road users would be better drivers/riders/pedestrians
if they had to watch out for road conditions and didnt get "comfort" or
"courage"from road signs (which encouraged many to drive on or above
the limit).

I feel bike riders fair best on the road and not on marked paths and
bike lanes and road signs lull many into a false sense of security.

So its interesting to hear the news from Holland.
(-courtesy- RACV- *RoyalAuto* April07)

-A town which removed ALL its road signs is claiming a 10% drop in
traffic casualties and a reduction in average speeds. The council in
Makkinga removed all road markings and signs three years ago and a
neighbouring town followed suit, but using different coloured road
surfaces to guide traffic.-

-European road saftey experts say the success of the move can be put
down to "unsafe safety": because the absence of signs means drivers
are unsure where to drive, they become more cautious-.

I'm a supporter for no road signs.

Over the years as people get used to having signs around (and then
ignoring them) we have had to do more and more to get their attention.
Brighter colours, bigger signs, more frequent signs, flashing lights on
signs and the biggest joke of them all signs to tell us there is a sign
coming up.

Let people assess the conditions and drive/ride accordingly. Don't
blame road conditions for crashes. If the road is poor, drive more
slowly.

And world peace!

Zebee Johnstone Wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:10:53 +1000
mitosis wrote:

Over the years as people get used to having signs around (and then
ignoring them) we have had to do more and more to get their
attention.
Brighter colours, bigger signs, more frequent signs, flashing lights
on
signs and the biggest joke of them all signs to tell us there is a
sign
coming up.

Umm.. so what's the difference between signs being ignored and no
signs?

Everyone who is ignoring a sign is using their own judgement....

Zebee
Maybe, or zombie drivers are so reassured by the presence of signs, as
they are by the technology that they are assured will prevent them
crashing or getting injured, that they feel infallible and therefore
don't assess the conditions. Everyone who crashes wants to blame
someone else.

World peace is another thread.


--
mitosis

On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:44:22 -0700, Bleve wrote:

Apart from Mikey's cynicism (I don't feel like a moving target when I
ride)

You should speed up a bit then. Do you know anyone who could give you some
training tips?

--
Dave Hughes |
"When you need a helpline for breakfast cereals, it's time to start
thinking about tearing down civilisation and giving the ants a go"
- Chris King

On Apr 23, 1:25 pm, "Dave" wrote:
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:44:22 -0700, Bleve wrote:
Apart from Mikey's cynicism (I don't feel like a moving target when I
ride)

You should speed up a bit then. Do you know anyone who could give you some
training tips?

I've started taking Oxy Shots and I am buying a Cervello Soloist, and
two disk wheels and some aerobars, will that help?