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Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 11th 08, 03:58 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

"50 million Americans mountain bike"? Yeah, right. This "study" is
nothing but lies designed to promote mountain biking -- nothing new
for mountain bikers. They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..

Mike


Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics Study

http://bbtc.org/wiki/uploads/2/27/Sh...s_Document.pdf

IRVINE, CA (BRAIN)—Shimano American Corporation and the International
Mountain Bicycling Association (IMBA) have teamed up to promote
mountain biking during the National Bike Summit, by releasing their
study, The Economics and Benefits of Mountain Biking.

More than one in five Americans 16 years or older ride mountain bikes,
and as a group contribute $26 billion annually to the economy,
according to the study.

“We want legislators, policy makers and the public to understand how
significant mountain biking is to both the economy and to keeping
people healthy,” said Kozo Shimano, senior executive at Shimano. And
he points out that 50 million Americans mountain bike, compared with
the 33 million that golf.

According to the report, one recent cost benefit analysis concluded
that every dollar invested in trails led to almost three dollars in
direct medical benefit. And the World Health Organization recommends
riding a bike to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease.

“From the beginning, IMBA members have embraced a stewardship ethic
that benefits conservation of our natural lands and waters. This
timely publication shows how a conservation mindset also gives back
with economic benefits,” said Mike Van Abel, IMBA’s executive
director.

Research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.

Copies of The Economics and Benefits of Mountain Biking can be
obtained from IMBA by sending a request to .
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #2  
Old March 11th 08, 04:43 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
"50 million Americans mountain bike"? Yeah, right. This "study" is
nothing but lies designed to promote mountain biking -- nothing new
for mountain bikers. They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..

Mike



Bull**** snipped Neither do you, liar.

  #3  
Old March 12th 08, 05:25 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:43:33 GMT, "Mike" wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
"50 million Americans mountain bike"? Yeah, right. This "study" is
nothing but lies designed to promote mountain biking -- nothing new
for mountain bikers. They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..

Mike



Bull**** snipped Neither do you, liar.


Hmmm. IMBA & Shimano say "50 million Americans mountain bike". I say
far fewer. Which of us is right? DUH!
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #4  
Old March 11th 08, 06:01 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
snip


They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..


Now there's the pot calling the kettle black ...



  #5  
Old March 12th 08, 05:27 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:01:48 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
snip


They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..


Now there's the pot calling the kettle black ...


Hmmm. IMBA & Shimano say "50 million Americans mountain bike". I say
far fewer. Which of us is right? DUH!
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #6  
Old March 13th 08, 05:15 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:01:48 GMT, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
snip


They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..


Now there's the pot calling the kettle black ...


Hmmm. IMBA & Shimano say "50 million Americans mountain bike". I say
far fewer. Which of us is right? DUH!
--


Maybe. But I see little of what you write that is not propaganda, and for
you to point out other's "propaganda" is hilarious.

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make and
sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them liars, you
are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like the pot calling
the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.




  #7  
Old April 11th 08, 01:26 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like the
pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they didn't
say was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and
that in fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before
falling apart, being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"

It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.
  #8  
Old April 11th 08, 04:59 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like the
pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they didn't say
was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and that in
fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before falling apart,
being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"

It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than hiking,
and far less than many other recreational activities.



Thanks, but I get all of that. I was responding to Vandeman's assertion that
there is no way for there to be 50M mountain bikes. He asserts that Shimano
is not in a position to know this sort of stuff.

I agree with the assessment that mountain biking is a low impact and
environmentally sustainable activity. I also agree that there are places
where the impact is quite high, but as a practical matter these areas (the
affected location of the high impact) is typically in the range of about 100
sq ft or less per location. Hardly a significant problem, and one that will
typically mend itself in short order as weather conditions change.

I would suggest that the typical bicycle route is going to be about 18
inches wide unless the route is also a motor vehicle route (in which case
the damage caused is more likely to be a result fo the motor vehicles that
the bicycles) and that areas where there is high impact are also areas where
there is water left standing after a rain. As the area dries out, the impact
returns to a low state, and while the area remains wet, any activity is
likely to be high impact for the duration of the standing water. So, for
there to be 100 square feet of high impact on an 18-inch route, the running
length of the impact has to be 66 feet, and that's a very long way. I'd
suggest that it is very rare for anybody to try and muddle through 66 feet
of mud and crud to get to where the trail is going. Indeed, the trail would
not go someplace where 66 feet of obsticles would be present and where high
impact is likely to be present.

Human nature and the laws of physics demands that the easy route be
followed. The demanding route is difficult to sustain over time, therefore
the easy route is the one that will be established. The easy route will be,
by definition, least problematic for the environment.






  #9  
Old April 16th 08, 05:38 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 05:26:20 -0700, SMS
wrote:

Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like the
pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike."


LIAR:

“We want legislators, policy makers and the public to understand how
significant mountain biking is to both the economy and to keeping
people healthy,” said Kozo Shimano, senior executive at Shimano. And
he points out that 50 million Americans mountain bike, compared with
the 33 million that golf.

What they didn't
say was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and
that in fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before
falling apart, being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"

It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #10  
Old March 11th 08, 11:40 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 54
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

* Mike Vandeman :
"50 million Americans mountain bike"? Yeah, right. This "study" is
nothing but lies designed to promote mountain biking -- nothing new
for mountain bikers. They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..


So you have a lot in common with them then, what's your point?

Jason
 




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