Running cassette and chain until both totally shot

On Dec 27, 8:49*am, DougC wrote:

I seem to remember an online article about Freddie Hoffman, that noted
that his chains lasted around 3000 miles (how many days would that be
for Freddy?) and that he replaced chainrings at around 50K miles. I
remember the 50K/chainrings figure, because the article said that he
gave the worn chainrings to particularly-big donors.

That maintenance schedule does sound like a bit of a stretch (ha ha) but
I'd swear that's what it said. Most common rings now are aluminum, but I
guess he might be running some kind of steel rings.

That sounds pretty reasonable for aluminum rings. I've currently got
about twice that mileage on my Shimano 600 (now called Ultegra)
crankset and the large ring is in need of replacement for the first
time. I did flip it over at about 60k when the chain started skipping
on it - maybe Freddie is tossing them instead of getting extra life by
flipping them over. Chains seem to last about 4-5 kmiles and
cassettes about three times that.

Peter Rathman wrote:

I seem to remember an online article about Freddie Hoffman, that
noted that his chains lasted around 3000 miles (how many days would
that be for Freddy?) and that he replaced chainrings at around 50K
miles. I remember the 50K/chainrings figure, because the article
said that he gave the worn chainrings to particularly-big donors.

That maintenance schedule does sound like a bit of a stretch (ha
ha) but I'd swear that's what it said. Most common rings now are
aluminum, but I guess he might be running some kind of steel rings.

That sounds pretty reasonable for aluminum rings. I've currently
got about twice that mileage on my Shimano 600 (now called Ultegra)
cranks and the large ring is in need of replacement for the first
time. I did flip it over at about 60k when the chain started
skipping on it - maybe Freddie is tossing them instead of getting
extra life by flipping them over. Chains seem to last about 4-5
k-miles and cassettes about three times that.

I don't believe in turning a CW around, especially one that has given
its all in good service. Here is one that outlived several 50t CW's
but finally had to take a backs eat in my museum.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

I often hear from riders that they ride until the chain begins to
skip. In the many years of riding, including climbing many alpine
passes and above all Sonora Pass CA, I have never had a skipping chain
except when putting a new chain on a worn sprocket.

http://tinyurl.com/3vssdd

Jobst Brandt

On Dec 26, 5:12 pm, MajorBob wrote:
I just let my chain wear a little too much and now need a new
cassette. I figure I will keep the old cassete for when the chain gets
about shot and put it back on and see how far you can wear down a
chain/cassete. Any experience on wearing cassettes/chains until they
jsut can't shift right anymore?

This is part of sort of an experiment on just how cheap you can keep a
bike going. I'm a cycle commuter (4,000 miles/year in wet sandy
Florida on a recumbent - 300 links!) and hope to write a book soon
about a "whole life view" (exercise, time, money spent, health,
happiness, taxes, subsidies, etc.) of transportation "Moving at the
speed of life".

Tires are easy to account for, chains/casettes are not. While spending
half an hour a week on chain cleaning may make your chain last, the
labor doesn't add up. I choose to use lots of exfoitating lube. I used
to have a "system" with chains in a solvent/drip dry/wax/on bike
rotation, but with a recumbnet you are talking about 9 chains.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of making a big
chain enclosure out of out of the sort of materials they make RC
planes out of. Keeping the crud off first seems the sanest approach.

at some point a seriously worn drivetrain starts to become a bigtime
safety issue.

On Dec 27, 9:43*pm, wrote:
Peter Rathman wrote:
I seem to remember an online article about Freddie Hoffman, that
noted that his chains lasted around 3000 miles (how many days would
that be for Freddy?) and that he replaced chainrings at around 50K
miles. I remember the 50K/chainrings figure, because the article
said that he gave the worn chainrings to particularly-big donors.
That maintenance schedule does sound like a bit of a stretch (ha
ha) but I'd swear that's what it said. Most common rings now are
aluminum, but I guess he might be running some kind of steel rings.
That sounds pretty reasonable for aluminum rings. *I've currently
got about twice that mileage on my Shimano 600 (now called Ultegra)
cranks and the large ring is in need of replacement for the first
time. *I did flip it over at about 60k when the chain started
skipping on it - maybe Freddie is tossing them instead of getting
extra life by flipping them over. *Chains seem to last about 4-5
k-miles and cassettes about three times that.

I don't believe in turning a CW around, especially one that has given
its all in good service. *Here is one that outlived several 50t CW's
but finally had to take a backs eat in my museum.

*http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg

The teeth are worn quite asymmetrically - so why not turn it over and
get some more life out of it?
Mine looked rather similar about 40 kmiles ago and now the teeth are
finally worn out on both faces.

*http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

I often hear from riders that they ride until the chain begins to
skip. *In the many years of riding, including climbing many alpine
passes and above all Sonora Pass CA, I have never had a skipping chain
except when putting a new chain on a worn sprocket.

That's certainly the more common situation. But I was having a
problem with skipping that wasn't solved by replacing both the chain
and the cassette. Then I noticed that the skip was happening on the
chainwheel rather than in back. Flipping the chainwheel cured it.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

Kinky Cowboy wrote: If you want to maximise the life of your
transmission, sell the
recumbnet [sic] and buy an ordinary; you won't look any more stupid,
and you'll have no chain at all. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tom Sherman wrote: And you may severely injure yourself or die when
you do a header while
trying to brake on the downhill. There is a good reason why the
ordinary is not longer produced or ridden (except as a curiosity
item).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wasn't Kinky's comment meant to be tongue in cheek?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Tom Sherman: Experience indicates that chain wear rate is
proportional to chain
length,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Should be: "chain wear is *inversely* proportional to chain length."
Or chain life is proportional to chain length

Phil H

someone wrote:

I just let my chain wear a little too much and now need a new
cassette. I figure I will keep the old cassette for when the chain gets
about shot and put it back on and see how far you can wear down a
chain/cassette. Any experience on wearing cassettes/chains until they
just can't shift right anymore?

This is part of sort of an experiment on just how cheap you can keep a
bike going. I'm a cycle commuter (4,000 miles/year in wet sandy
Florida on a recumbent - 300 links!) and hope to write a book soon
about a "whole life view" (exercise, time, money spent, health,
happiness, taxes, subsidies, etc.) of transportation "Moving at the
speed of life".

Tires are easy to account for, chains/cassettes are not. While spending
half an hour a week on chain cleaning may make your chain last, the
labor doesn't add up. I choose to use lots of exfoitating lube. I used
to have a "system" with chains in a solvent/drip dry/wax/on bike
rotation, but with a recumbent you are talking about 9 chains.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of making a big
chain enclosure out of out of the sort of materials they make RC
planes out of. Keeping the crud off first seems the sanest approach.

at some point a seriously worn drivetrain starts to become a bigtime
safety issue.

That sounds ominous at best. Please explain what safety you perceive
is compromised. I posted a picture of a severely worn CW that was
able to climb long 20% grades to its dying day.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg

Jobst Brandt

On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:23:47 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

someone wrote:

I just let my chain wear a little too much and now need a new
cassette. I figure I will keep the old cassette for when the chain
gets about shot and put it back on and see how far you can wear down a
chain/cassette. Any experience on wearing cassettes/chains until they
just can't shift right anymore?

This is part of sort of an experiment on just how cheap you can keep a
bike going. I'm a cycle commuter (4,000 miles/year in wet sandy
Florida on a recumbent - 300 links!) and hope to write a book soon
about a "whole life view" (exercise, time, money spent, health,
happiness, taxes, subsidies, etc.) of transportation "Moving at the
speed of life".

Tires are easy to account for, chains/cassettes are not. While
spending half an hour a week on chain cleaning may make your chain
last, the labor doesn't add up. I choose to use lots of exfoitating
lube. I used to have a "system" with chains in a solvent/drip
dry/wax/on bike rotation, but with a recumbent you are talking about 9
chains.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of making a big
chain enclosure out of out of the sort of materials they make RC
planes out of. Keeping the crud off first seems the sanest approach.

at some point a seriously worn drivetrain starts to become a bigtime
safety issue.

That sounds ominous at best. Please explain what safety you perceive is
compromised. I posted a picture of a severely worn CW that was able to
climb long 20% grades to its dying day.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg

you're kidding, right???

jim beam wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:23:47 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

That sounds ominous at best. Please explain what safety you perceive is
compromised. I posted a picture of a severely worn CW that was able to
climb long 20% grades to its dying day.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg

you're kidding, right???


Back when I was younger, thinner and had more free time, I used to wear
out the granny ring of my MTB's a lot sooner than the other two rings,
due to my preference for low-speed high-torque technical riding. The
reason I would know that it was time for a new small ring was that the
chain *would* begin to skip on the granny ring, and it *did* become a
safety issue, as I found out the hard way a few times. I didn't think to
save any of the rings or take pictures, however.
~

peter wrote:

The teeth are worn quite asymmetrically - so why not turn it over and
get some more life out of it?
Mine looked rather similar about 40 kmiles ago and now the teeth are
finally worn out on both faces.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html

I often hear from riders that they ride until the chain begins to
skip. In the many years of riding, including climbing many alpine
passes and above all Sonora Pass CA, I have never had a skipping chain
except when putting a new chain on a worn sprocket.

That's certainly the more common situation. But I was having a
problem with skipping that wasn't solved by replacing both the chain
and the cassette. Then I noticed that the skip was happening on the
chainwheel rather than in back. Flipping the chainwheel cured it.

I recently had kind of the inverse situation. I was rehabbing a
discarded bike and couldn't get a bad skip out of it. A closer look
revealed the chain ring had been flipped, but this one had a pin to
prevent chain jams under the crank. When flipped, it was catching the
chain. Nothing a grinder couldn't fix, but the ring wasn't worn, so I
flipped it back.

On Dec 28, 12:23 pm, wrote:

That sounds ominous at best. Please explain what safety you perceive
is compromised.

Ominous indeed. Once I was standing up to sprint across an
intersection, two teeth on a very worn cog broke off, I slammed my
chest into the stem hard enough to crack two ribs, at which point I
steered the bike with my torso for a few moments then wrecked
extremely hard and awkwardly.

That's a pretty extreme example of what can happen if you let your
drivetrain wear out too much. It doesn't have to be nearly that bad to
be dangerous. A little chain skip can lead to a very painful encounter
between the knee and stem, or a crash or both.