Safety tabs are filed off on race bikes for faster wheel changes.

On Apr 11, 1:38*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
At least the "can't file
off safety tabs" rule has an arguable safety benefit...

Hell, _any_ rule could have an "arguable" safety benefit.

Seems to me that if a rule is proposbed for "safety," there should be
some requirement to first prove a significant number of serious
injuries caused by violations of the proposed rule.

Obviously, that's not presently the case. Truly stupid rules have
been triggered by little more than one mommy whining before
legislators.

- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:22:50 -0400
Frank Krygowski quoted:

And teams "... may have to resort to redesigned quick releases that open
far enough to clear the tabs."

Or, go to the system that long-distance motorbike racers use. They have
through-axles and still manage to change the wheels fast several times
in a 24-hour race.

Don't know how it's done myself, but a friend who builds such bikes
has his workshops only 5 minutes pedaling from here.



Mike

On Apr 11, 1:59*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:38*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

At least the "can't file
off safety tabs" rule has an arguable safety benefit...

Hell, _any_ rule could have an "arguable" safety benefit.

Seems to me that if a rule is proposbed for "safety," there should be
some requirement to first prove a significant number of serious
injuries caused by violations of the proposed rule.

Obviously, that's not presently the case. *Truly stupid rules have
been triggered by little more than one mommy whining before
legislators.

Well, UCI rules generally deal with "cheating" (unfair performance
advantage) like using EPO . . . or wearing compression socks! The
lawyer lip rule may be a "cheating" rule rather than a true safety
rule. See http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderre...s-to-fork-off/

The French are feeling opressed because they are prohibited by French
law from filing-off their lawyer lips, and the other teams are getting
an unfair advantage. So the UCI may be attempting to level the
playing field rather than making the field safer.

I can see lawyer lips on civilian bikes. There are lots of reported
cases of wheel ejections on civilian bikes. But lawyer lips on
professionally maintained racing bikes seems a bit much, unless you
have evil team mechanics. I think collisions with dogs or tifosi are
a greater risk than wheel ejection.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Apr 11, 7:51*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 11, 1:59*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Apr 11, 1:38*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

At least the "can't file
off safety tabs" rule has an arguable safety benefit...

Hell, _any_ rule could have an "arguable" safety benefit.

Seems to me that if a rule is proposbed for "safety," there should be
some requirement to first prove a significant number of serious
injuries caused by violations of the proposed rule.

Obviously, that's not presently the case. *Truly stupid rules have
been triggered by little more than one mommy whining before
legislators.

Well, UCI rules generally deal with "cheating" (unfair performance
advantage) like using EPO . . . or wearing compression socks! The
lawyer lip rule may be a "cheating" rule rather than a true safety
rule. Seehttp://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/03/23/uci-tells-teams-t...

The French are feeling opressed because they are prohibited by French
law from filing-off their lawyer lips, and the other teams are getting
an unfair advantage. *So the UCI may be attempting to level the
playing field rather than making the field safer.

I can see lawyer lips on civilian bikes. *There are lots of reported
cases of wheel ejections on civilian bikes. But lawyer lips on
professionally maintained racing bikes seems a bit much, unless you
have evil team mechanics. *I think collisions with dogs or tifosi are
a greater risk than wheel ejection.

-- Jay Beattie.

Lawyer lips will be needed when disc brakes come into use?

Wow, like it's so hard to remember "five turns" or whatever with the
skewer.
I've seen one front wheel ejection in my racing "career"-- including
pileups, to the best of my memory.
There was this loudmouth Little League dad yelling at people before a
race start, didn't have a 5mm allen with him, and then his poor son
went about 20 yards out from the gun and his front wheel left the
bicycle. Bad crash. Maybe they went on to their next sport after he
healed.
--D-y
--D-y

On Apr 11, 7:07*pm, " wrote:
On Apr 11, 7:51*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:









On Apr 11, 1:59*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Apr 11, 1:38*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

At least the "can't file
off safety tabs" rule has an arguable safety benefit...

Hell, _any_ rule could have an "arguable" safety benefit.

Seems to me that if a rule is proposbed for "safety," there should be
some requirement to first prove a significant number of serious
injuries caused by violations of the proposed rule.

Obviously, that's not presently the case. *Truly stupid rules have
been triggered by little more than one mommy whining before
legislators.

Well, UCI rules generally deal with "cheating" (unfair performance
advantage) like using EPO . . . or wearing compression socks! The
lawyer lip rule may be a "cheating" rule rather than a true safety
rule. Seehttp://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/03/23/uci-tells-teams-t...

The French are feeling opressed because they are prohibited by French
law from filing-off their lawyer lips, and the other teams are getting
an unfair advantage. *So the UCI may be attempting to level the
playing field rather than making the field safer.

I can see lawyer lips on civilian bikes. *There are lots of reported
cases of wheel ejections on civilian bikes. But lawyer lips on
professionally maintained racing bikes seems a bit much, unless you
have evil team mechanics. *I think collisions with dogs or tifosi are
a greater risk than wheel ejection.

-- Jay Beattie.

Lawyer lips will be needed when disc brakes come into use?

Wow, like it's so hard to remember "five turns" or whatever with the
skewer.
I've seen one front wheel ejection in my racing "career"-- including
pileups, to the best of my memory.
There was this loudmouth Little League dad yelling at people before a
race start, didn't have a 5mm allen with him, and then his poor son
went about 20 yards out from the gun and his front wheel left the
bicycle. Bad crash. Maybe they went on to their next sport after he
healed.
--D-y
--D-y

Hey, I was in the middle of a road race, climbing a hill, when I
looked down at my front wheel, and I noticed my front skewer had
opened -- probably because I was hasty putting my wheel on before the
start. I had to stop, tighten the skewer and then chase like crazy.
So, it can happen to reasonably adept although harried riders. No
crashes though.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay Beattie wrote:
There are lots of reported cases of wheel ejections on civilian
bikes.

I fail to see those, happen to have a data source?


--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei

wrote:
Lawyer lips will be needed when disc brakes come into use?

Forward facing drop outs resolve that issue, so: no.

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei

On Apr 12, 2:30*am, Helmut Springer wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:
There are lots of reported cases of wheel ejections on civilian
bikes.

I fail to see those, happen to have a data source?

Only filed court cases. e.g.
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Loc...op-sees-delays

I've seen a few of these in Oregon, although I didn't defend them.
There was a class action against Wal Mart for supposedly defective QRs
on kids' bikes, which were probably defective because they were not
tightened. I don't know how those cases resolved.

See also http://www.markwebb.com/million.htm

This is how we ended up with "lawyer lips." -- Jay Beattie.

On Apr 11, 11:51*am, AMuzi wrote:
Peter Van Buren wrote:
On Apr 11, 4:42 am, thirty-six wrote:
Who'd of thought? * *:-)http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...re-bikes-from-...

They may have to soon stop doing that:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...ci-to-require-...

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/7ys68db

Peter.

Great. *Now 9 year old retards hopped up on psychiatric
drugs can compete fairly in USCF events with assured safety.

Durn, I only watch for the crashes.

On Apr 12, 3:23*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 12, 2:30*am, Helmut Springer wrote:

Jay Beattie wrote:
There are lots of reported cases of wheel ejections on civilian
bikes.

I fail to see those, happen to have a data source?

Only filed court cases. e.g.http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Loc...gainst-S-F--bi...

*I've seen a few of these in Oregon, although I didn't defend them.
There was a class action against Wal Mart for supposedly defective QRs
on kids' bikes, *which were probably defective because they were not
tightened. *I don't know how those cases resolved.

See alsohttp://www.markwebb.com/million.htm

This is how we ended up with "lawyer lips." -- Jay Beattie.

I came across some dodgy clamps on my nephew's bike. I told the boy
that they should be adjusted so that they are hard to close and he
needs to use all his weight to close them for them to secure. "If
they snap, it's because they are junk". I also gave him the advice to
test the security by attempting to rotate the lever in the plane of
the wheel again using all his weight. He got the message these are
not the most reliable fixing. Those clamps and the twisted frame ends
were not perhaps the worst case, but they clearly demonstrated that
fashion should not be used to determine correct fixings on a bicycle.
I've used the best QRs with perfect frame end and fork end alignment
and spacing and still like to use nutted axles. As long as one
doesn't imagine there is a disadvantage in carrying a spanner then
there is no reason not to use nutted axles.