"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

Craig Brossman wrote:

"What's the point?", "known to everyone", I would think it is to your
benefit to have more people experience the issue first hand, at least
the QR moving.

Only if they will do something about it, such as tell the manufacturers.
There are 4 categories:

1 People who do not believe it and have not seen it
2 People who do believe it and have not seen it
3 People who have seen it for themselves and do nothing about it
4 People who have seen it for themselves and do something about it.

The only people that matter here are the ones in group 4. Moving people
from 1 to 3 serves absolutely no purpose. There are already plenty of
people of type 3. Since the vast majority who do see the problem jump
straight into box 3, I think it is more sensible to try to shift them
into box 4 (by demonstrating that if they do nothing, the problem will
remain) than trying to make even more people see the problem.

I'm grateful for the support of the 2s here, but the manufacturers need
real life stories and these people cannot help on that point. Even an
occasionally slipping hub would be enough, however, as this is very
clearly an indication of a problem (don't take my word for it, ask Avid).

James

Craig Brossman wrote:

"What's the point?", "known to everyone", I would think it is to your
benefit to have more people experience the issue first hand, at least
the QR moving.

Only if they will do something about it, such as tell the manufacturers.
There are 4 categories:

1 People who do not believe it and have not seen it
2 People who do believe it and have not seen it
3 People who have seen it for themselves and do nothing about it
4 People who have seen it for themselves and do something about it.

The only people that matter here are the ones in group 4. Moving people
from 1 to 3 serves absolutely no purpose. There are already plenty of
people of type 3. Since the vast majority who do see the problem jump
straight into box 3, I think it is more sensible to try to shift them
into box 4 (by demonstrating that if they do nothing, the problem will
remain) than trying to make even more people see the problem.

I'm grateful for the support of the 2s here, but the manufacturers need
real life stories and these people cannot help on that point. Even an
occasionally slipping hub would be enough, however, as this is very
clearly an indication of a problem (don't take my word for it, ask Avid).

James

in message , David Damerell
') wrote:

tcmedara wrote:
James Annan wrote:
tcmedara wrote:
Dumabass, Frobnitz was *supporting you* !
Yeah, I realised that. I guess humo(u)r doesn't travel well.
Perhaps you should give it up for something you're better at...

_I_ got it. You're American, aren't you?

Don't tease them. Mocking the afflicted is just not _done_.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

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in message , David Damerell
') wrote:

tcmedara wrote:
James Annan wrote:
tcmedara wrote:
Dumabass, Frobnitz was *supporting you* !
Yeah, I realised that. I guess humo(u)r doesn't travel well.
Perhaps you should give it up for something you're better at...

_I_ got it. You're American, aren't you?

Don't tease them. Mocking the afflicted is just not _done_.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

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"Russ" writes:

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
Chris Phillipo writes:

This is why you will lose and court action you bring against
these companies. With your personality, if it's a jury trial you
might just end up paying for the while thing.

Never seen a liability case in action? Any half-competent lawyer
could get a judgment for a couple of million in punitive damages
with a case of some young dude who got paralyzed from his front
wheel coming out due to the ejection force created by disk brakes.
A case like this is as close to a sure thing as can be. It's
practically a license to print money.

I do hope so :-)

I second that.

Maybe if you rode a bike once in a while you would mellow out a
little.

Age advice- give it a try. However much you're riding, it's
obviously not enough. After all, *you're* the one stooping to
abuse. And Canadians say Americans are rude!

Oops, should have been "Sage advice." "Age advice" makes almost no
sense at all. Must be my advancing age getting the better of me!

I can remember telling James that I didn't believe it was a real
problem when he first brought it up (don't remember resorting to
personal abuse though), then two months later I found out first hand
that it was, I just hope Chris doesn't go the same way as I wouldn't
wish my condition on my worst enemy.

Man oh man, I second that. As a psychologist working in nursing
homes, I see enough people already with serious trauamtic brain and
spinal injuries. There's no need to add to them with a preventable
danger like this one. Unfortunately some people will argue until
they're the ones in a wheelchair. Riding bike is a choice that
entails some risks at the best of times, there's no reason to add
unnecessary and preventable risks.

Good luck to you, Russ! I'm happy to see that you don't seem to have
fallen prey to the angry bitterness that I saw in another guy- in his
case, a partial quadraplegic from being hit by a car- who used to post
to rec.bikes years ago. I hope he's doing better.

"Russ" writes:

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
Chris Phillipo writes:

This is why you will lose and court action you bring against
these companies. With your personality, if it's a jury trial you
might just end up paying for the while thing.

Never seen a liability case in action? Any half-competent lawyer
could get a judgment for a couple of million in punitive damages
with a case of some young dude who got paralyzed from his front
wheel coming out due to the ejection force created by disk brakes.
A case like this is as close to a sure thing as can be. It's
practically a license to print money.

I do hope so :-)

I second that.

Maybe if you rode a bike once in a while you would mellow out a
little.

Age advice- give it a try. However much you're riding, it's
obviously not enough. After all, *you're* the one stooping to
abuse. And Canadians say Americans are rude!

Oops, should have been "Sage advice." "Age advice" makes almost no
sense at all. Must be my advancing age getting the better of me!

I can remember telling James that I didn't believe it was a real
problem when he first brought it up (don't remember resorting to
personal abuse though), then two months later I found out first hand
that it was, I just hope Chris doesn't go the same way as I wouldn't
wish my condition on my worst enemy.

Man oh man, I second that. As a psychologist working in nursing
homes, I see enough people already with serious trauamtic brain and
spinal injuries. There's no need to add to them with a preventable
danger like this one. Unfortunately some people will argue until
they're the ones in a wheelchair. Riding bike is a choice that
entails some risks at the best of times, there's no reason to add
unnecessary and preventable risks.

Good luck to you, Russ! I'm happy to see that you don't seem to have
fallen prey to the angry bitterness that I saw in another guy- in his
case, a partial quadraplegic from being hit by a car- who used to post
to rec.bikes years ago. I hope he's doing better.

carlfogel wrote:

Dear Tom,

That's just another example of your typical obfuscation, evasion, and
bait-and-switch tactics, you lying $%#!@ son of a bumblebee!

Dear Carl,

That is blatantly unfair, as I did not make a single mention of my
lowracer, trike or "The Holy Grail" in that post.

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

carlfogel wrote:

Dear Tom,

That's just another example of your typical obfuscation, evasion, and
bait-and-switch tactics, you lying $%#!@ son of a bumblebee!

Dear Carl,

That is blatantly unfair, as I did not make a single mention of my
lowracer, trike or "The Holy Grail" in that post.

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Carl Fogel wrote:

...
My casual browsing suggested that braking effectiveness decreases
downhill and off-pavement and that typical off-road bicycle geometry
and treaded tires are not admired for such situations, but I failed
to find any figures....

Dear Carl,

While the available retardation rate (before the rear wheel lifts off
the ground) parallel to the ground surface is reduced on a downgrade,
the braking force resisted by the wheel will remain the same since the
gravitational acceleration component is added to braking acceleration
component.
--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Carl Fogel wrote:

...
My casual browsing suggested that braking effectiveness decreases
downhill and off-pavement and that typical off-road bicycle geometry
and treaded tires are not admired for such situations, but I failed
to find any figures....

Dear Carl,

While the available retardation rate (before the rear wheel lifts off
the ground) parallel to the ground surface is reduced on a downgrade,
the braking force resisted by the wheel will remain the same since the
gravitational acceleration component is added to braking acceleration
component.
--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)