My Handlebars Dissolved

So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.

I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars. These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/18/2013 3:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.

I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars. These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.

-- Jay Beattie.


Good idea:
http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:44:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/18/2013 3:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep.. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.



I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars. These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.



-- Jay Beattie.





Good idea:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html





--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Not that bad, but bad enough. I wonder if the surface treatment has anything to do with the failure.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:24:08 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
wrote:

So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out
poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc.

Alumina, aluminum oxide, or aluminum hydroxide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_hydroxide

There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter
and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a
black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the
right side with only a little erosion on the left.

Leprosy?

I would have expected more on the left side as that's the side where
the spray from passing vehicles would land.

I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything
like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable
distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about
failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs.

What type of tape? Cloth? Plastic? Metal? Foam? Duct tape?
If the tape is hygroscopic (absorbs water) like a sponge, then you
have the culprit. Wet bar tape is almost as good as immersing the
handlebars in water. Add a little acid from the hands, and the acid
will continually strip off the protective oxide layer from the
aluminum, and corrode what's underneath.

If the bars had rubber grips, was there any corrosion under the grips?
If not, then my guess(tm) ummm... holds water.

Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday
lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars.

I recommend something more aggressive:
http://www.toxel.com/tech/2013/04/10/deer-antler-bicycle-handlebar/
http://taylorsimpsondesign.com/Moniker

I don't think the colorized bars are the problem. It's the tape, if
it soaks up water. I suggest leaving the bars uncovered, and getting
some extra padding for your cycling gloves.

These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the
clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars
on this bike.

It's ok to believe in luck. Just don't rely on it.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jay Beattie wrote:
:So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.

What kind of tape?

--
sig 101

a truly ugly Pardo...

aluminum corrosion is directly proportional to obscurity

and quality control failure.

a lawyer would have more corrosion on the right bar ?

but for JB ?

( failed to 'scroll down' and not the first time...)

On Monday, November 18, 2013 9:58:45 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

What type of tape? Cloth? Plastic? Metal? Foam? Duct tape?
If the tape is hygroscopic (absorbs water) like a sponge, then you
have the culprit. Wet bar tape is almost as good as immersing the
handlebars in water. Add a little acid from the hands, and the acid
will continually strip off the protective oxide layer from the
aluminum, and corrode what's underneath.

If the bars had rubber grips, was there any corrosion under the grips?

If not, then my guess(tm) ummm... holds water.

Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday
lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars.
...
I don't think the colorized bars are the problem. It's the tape, if
it soaks up water. I suggest leaving the bars uncovered, and getting
some extra padding for your cycling gloves.

What's puzzling to me is, I've replaced several sets of really old aluminum handlebars and seen nothing like that. Granted, mine were not "colorized." Some may have been anodized, but I doubt the oldest ones even got that treatment.

Admittedly, Jay does much more rain riding than I do, but still...

I'm curious about what might have caused what Jay experienced. Since chemistry's not my strong suit, I'm interested in learning about this.

- Frank Krygowski

Op dinsdag 19 november 2013 01:44:02 UTC+1 schreef AMuzi:
On 11/18/2013 3:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep.. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.



I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars. These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.



-- Jay Beattie.





Good idea:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html





--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Good idea to replace you handlebare tape once in a while to inspect your handlebar underneath it. I guess this guy left it for a long time because this doesn't happen overnight. At least every two years is a good rule. The reason most people don't do it is because they think it is difficult.

Lou

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 20:31:38 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:


What's puzzling to me is, I've replaced several sets of really old
aluminum handlebars and seen nothing like that. Granted, mine
were not "colorized." Some may have been anodized, but I doubt
the oldest ones even got that treatment.

I've never seen it on bicycles, but it's sure common on boats.

In the bad old days (before RoHS) colorized aluminum bars were plated
with Alodine 1200 or Iridite. Too much chromium oxide in the mix. I
think it's still available today in some countries. Products from
China plated with Alodine 1200 are also legal. The basic color is
gold, but it can be stained with various colors ranging from yellow to
green to brown. There are some non-chromium based replacement for
Alodine 1200, but I couldn't find anything on their composition. Some
handlebars are anodized, which is both harder and more expensive. An
ohmmeter should tell the difference. Anodizing is an insulator, while
Alodine conducts nicely.

Disclaimer: I know aluminum chemistry and protection from my days
designing marine radios. Hopefully it also applies to bicycles.

Admittedly, Jay does much more rain riding than I do, but still...

I'm curious about what might have caused what Jay experienced.
Since chemistry's not my strong suit, I'm interested in learning about this.

The chemistry is easy enough. What I don't know are all the
circumstances (type of tape, water exposure, chemicals present). I'll
wait for Jay to reply.

Maybe a simplified version of the chemistry might help. The reason
aluminum doesn't "rust" is that aluminum instantly oxidizes on
exposure to air. The aluminum oxide coating is thin, transparent, and
most important, not porous to water. That means the underlying
aluminum is not exposed to air or liquids as long as the aluminum
oxide coating is present.

This is very different from unprotected iron, which forms a layer of
iron oxide (rust), which is quite porous. Water goes right through
the layer of iron oxide, and attacks the underlying iron. Eventually,
the iron oxide layer becomes thicker, and the underlying iron gets
thinner.

With aluminum, as long as the oxide coating is present, little can
attack the underlying aluminum. However, there are chemicals that
attack the aluminum oxide. Most common is HCl or hydrochloric acid.
Even diluted, it will remove the protective oxide coating.

If you just wipe it on and off the aluminum, it will not do much
damage. The HCl will eventually evaporate, and the aluminum oxide
layer will reform quickly, thus arresting further corrosion.
(Incidentally, that's why I wipe aluminum with vinegar before
painting). However, continuous contact with HCl in liquid form is a
very different story. The aluminum oxide will go continuously into
solution and slowly corrode the underlying aluminum until it
disappears.

So, where does the chlorine come from? One possible source is salt
(NaCL). There's salt in sweat, ocean water, most food products, cloth
dyes, bleach, and zinc chloride batteries, and some air pollutants.
Add salt to water, and the NaCl ionizes (splits into ions), making the
chlorine available to rot the aluminum. I'm not sure if it forms
aluminum chloride AlCl3, aluminum oxide Al2O3, or aluminum hydroxide
Al(OH)3. They look much the same. My guess is a mixture of all
three.

In order for this to work, there has to be some place to store the
liquid. In the mess that Andrew Muzi posted, it's in the bubbles and
air gaps under the tape. In Jay's handlebars, my guess(tm) is
absorbed in the foam or cloth tape. It might be amusing to scrape the
rotted areas, add distilled water, and measure the pH. If it's
acidic, there's the culprit.

I hope this helps.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:59:36 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 18, 2013 4:44:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/18/2013 3:24 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:

So, I took the tape off the bars on my commuter, and out poured probably (in total) a teaspoon of white powder, like talc. There were numerous large pits, some as large as 3-4mm in diameter and some probably 1/2 mm deep. These are aluminum bars with a black surface treatment (Ritchey bars). This was mostly on the right side with only a little erosion on the left.



I've owned (and ignored) many aluminum bars and never seen anything like this. All the erosion was under the tape and a considerable distance from the stem clamp, so I'm not all that concerned about failure -- I'd still have more bar area than many of the fixie poseurs. Nonetheless, I'll probably go over to Performance tomorrow (Tuesday lunch discount) and get a new pair of non-colorized bars. These bars replaced a pair of Cinelli OEM bars that broke at the clamp while I was riding to work. Surprise! Bad luck with bars on this bike.



-- Jay Beattie.





Good idea:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html





--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Not that bad, but bad enough. I wonder if the surface treatment has anything to do with the failure.

-- Jay Beattie.

Pure aluminum forms a thin surface layer of aluminum oxide on contact
with oxygen in the atmosphere which creates a physical barrier against
corrosion or further oxidation in most environments. However aluminum
alloys have varying resistance to corrosion. "Alclad" for example is
a sheet of high strength aluminum alloy that is mechanically coated
with pure aluminum to reduce the dangers of corrosion.

On the other hand, aluminum handlebars seldom corrode so badly that
they break unless there is some contributing factor... like a marine
environment, or other source of saline liquids.
--
Cheers,

John B.