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Will e-bikes expand cycling?



 
 
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  #171  
Old November 8th 19, 02:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On 11/7/2019 5:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:04:16 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 11/7/2019 8:47 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/6/2019 3:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2019 5:16 PM, Bertrand wrote:
But despite decades of gains in percentage of helmet use,
bicyclist concussions have risen, not fallen, over 60% in
fifteen years or so. That increase completely outstrips
any purported rise in riding levels.

Maybe the number of REPORTED concussions has gone up, but
that doesn't say much about the actual number of
concussions. In the U.S., at least, there's much more
awareness now of concussions, and they're diagnosed much
more frequently than in the past (we used to just say
someone "got his bell rung" or "got the wind knocked out of
him"). Look at how many more high school and pro athletes
are now diagnosed with concussions. So I don't think an
increase in reported bicycle concussions leads to any valid
conclusion about helmet effectiveness. You'd need, for a
start, to compare cycling to other sports.

+1

Correct. Taking one piece of data, totally out of context, is
unhelpful but unfortunately it's a common occurrence--sometimes done
intentionally, sometimes done due to ignorance.

The number of actual concussions overall could have gone down as
well, since with better protective equipment you don't see reports
of things that never happened. Counting ER visits is a particularly
poor way of judging the effect of ER visits.

Asking ER doctors and nurses about the comparative severity of
injuries of the patients they attend to, based on whether or not
they were using protective equipment, has at least some validity
though there's a large subset that they never see because the
protective equipment has made it unnecessary.

We have in our family a recently retired emergency room physician. He
practiced for many years in a state that imposed a mandatory helmet
law for kids. He says rather emphatically that the law made no
difference.

Unsurprisingly, medical professionals are big proponents of bicycle
helmets, and they probably aren't being paid by the helmet industry
for their views. They aren't out there saying dumb things to
discourage helmet use either, i.e. calling them "foam hats." Our
resident AHZs could learn something if they were willing to look at
the facts.

I believe I've posted more facts and data than anyone here on this issue.

But yes, it's true that there are medicos who have jumped on the MHL
bandwagon, to one degree or another. I've asked several, and every one
has admitted that bicyclists comprise a tiny, tiny percentage of the
TBI cases they've seen. None has ever given a cogent response as to
why so much nagging should be directed at bicyclists, when many other
activities cause so much more TBI.

And to be clear, I've known and still know doctors who are helmet skeptics.


Are they openly skeptical when talking to patients, during a consultation?


Oddly enough, I've never been in the examination room when a doctor has been
talking with a patient - except my kids and my wife.

But our doctors have all known we were cyclists. None ever mentioned helmets,
IIRC.


Protocols vary. I got up and walked out when asked 'are
there firearms in your home?'. Who died and made you King?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #172  
Old November 8th 19, 02:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 19:24:22 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/7/2019 5:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:04:16 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 11/7/2019 8:47 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/6/2019 3:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2019 5:16 PM, Bertrand wrote:
But despite decades of gains in percentage of helmet use,
bicyclist concussions have risen, not fallen, over 60% in
fifteen years or so. That increase completely outstrips
any purported rise in riding levels.

Maybe the number of REPORTED concussions has gone up, but
that doesn't say much about the actual number of
concussions. In the U.S., at least, there's much more
awareness now of concussions, and they're diagnosed much
more frequently than in the past (we used to just say
someone "got his bell rung" or "got the wind knocked out of
him"). Look at how many more high school and pro athletes
are now diagnosed with concussions. So I don't think an
increase in reported bicycle concussions leads to any valid
conclusion about helmet effectiveness. You'd need, for a
start, to compare cycling to other sports.

+1

Correct. Taking one piece of data, totally out of context, is
unhelpful but unfortunately it's a common occurrence--sometimes done
intentionally, sometimes done due to ignorance.

The number of actual concussions overall could have gone down as
well, since with better protective equipment you don't see reports
of things that never happened. Counting ER visits is a particularly
poor way of judging the effect of ER visits.

Asking ER doctors and nurses about the comparative severity of
injuries of the patients they attend to, based on whether or not
they were using protective equipment, has at least some validity
though there's a large subset that they never see because the
protective equipment has made it unnecessary.

We have in our family a recently retired emergency room physician. He
practiced for many years in a state that imposed a mandatory helmet
law for kids. He says rather emphatically that the law made no
difference.

Unsurprisingly, medical professionals are big proponents of bicycle
helmets, and they probably aren't being paid by the helmet industry
for their views. They aren't out there saying dumb things to
discourage helmet use either, i.e. calling them "foam hats." Our
resident AHZs could learn something if they were willing to look at
the facts.

I believe I've posted more facts and data than anyone here on this issue.

But yes, it's true that there are medicos who have jumped on the MHL
bandwagon, to one degree or another. I've asked several, and every one
has admitted that bicyclists comprise a tiny, tiny percentage of the
TBI cases they've seen. None has ever given a cogent response as to
why so much nagging should be directed at bicyclists, when many other
activities cause so much more TBI.

And to be clear, I've known and still know doctors who are helmet skeptics.

Are they openly skeptical when talking to patients, during a consultation?


Oddly enough, I've never been in the examination room when a doctor has been
talking with a patient - except my kids and my wife.

But our doctors have all known we were cyclists. None ever mentioned helmets,
IIRC.


Protocols vary. I got up and walked out when asked 'are
there firearms in your home?'. Who died and made you King?


But, Oh My God! Firearms are so dangerous. Why, they will leap right
out of the corner and shoot somebody!
--
cheers,

John B.

  #173  
Old November 8th 19, 03:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

I was in Davis, CA today. They have a large bike share program by Jump
(Uber). All of the bike share bikes are electric.
  #174  
Old November 8th 19, 03:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 5,270
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Thursday, 7 November 2019 21:20:43 UTC-5, sms wrote:
I was in Davis, CA today. They have a large bike share program by Jump
(Uber). All of the bike share bikes are electric.


And I'm willing to be that they are ridden as if they were electric motorcycles NOT electric bicycles.

Cheers
  #175  
Old November 8th 19, 03:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:04:16 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 11/7/2019 8:47 AM, sms wrote:
On 11/6/2019 3:29 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/6/2019 5:16 PM, Bertrand wrote:
But despite decades of gains in percentage of helmet use,
bicyclist concussions have risen, not fallen, over 60% in
fifteen years or so. That increase completely outstrips
any purported rise in riding levels.

Maybe the number of REPORTED concussions has gone up, but
that doesn't say much about the actual number of
concussions.Â* In the U.S., at least, there's much more
awareness now of concussions, and they're diagnosed much
more frequently than in the past (we used to just say
someone "got his bell rung" or "got the wind knocked out of
him").Â* Look at how many more high school and pro athletes
are now diagnosed with concussions.Â* So I don't think an
increase in reported bicycle concussions leads to any valid
conclusion about helmet effectiveness. You'd need, for a
start, to compare cycling to other sports.

+1

Correct. Taking one piece of data, totally out of context, is
unhelpful but unfortunately it's a common occurrence--sometimes done
intentionally, sometimes done due to ignorance.

The number of actual concussions overall could have gone down as
well, since with better protective equipment you don't see reports
of things that never happened. Counting ER visits is a particularly
poor way of judging the effect of ER visits.

Asking ER doctors and nurses about the comparative severity of
injuries of the patients they attend to, based on whether or not
they were using protective equipment, has at least some validity
though there's a large subset that they never see because the
protective equipment has made it unnecessary.

We have in our family a recently retired emergency room physician. He
practiced for many years in a state that imposed a mandatory helmet
law for kids. He says rather emphatically that the law made no
difference.

Unsurprisingly, medical professionals are big proponents of bicycle
helmets, and they probably aren't being paid by the helmet industry
for their views. They aren't out there saying dumb things to
discourage helmet use either, i.e. calling them "foam hats." Our
resident AHZs could learn something if they were willing to look at
the facts.

I believe I've posted more facts and data than anyone here on this issue.

But yes, it's true that there are medicos who have jumped on the MHL
bandwagon, to one degree or another. I've asked several, and every one
has admitted that bicyclists comprise a tiny, tiny percentage of the
TBI cases they've seen. None has ever given a cogent response as to
why so much nagging should be directed at bicyclists, when many other
activities cause so much more TBI.

And to be clear, I've known and still know doctors who are helmet skeptics.


Are they openly skeptical when talking to patients, during a consultation?


Oddly enough, I've never been in the examination room when a doctor has been
talking with a patient - except my kids and my wife.

But our doctors have all known we were cyclists. None ever mentioned helmets,
IIRC.

Yours?


My previous doctor did ask if I used a helmet. When I said I didn't he
offered to send me papers on the helmet question via email. He never
did, presumably because he did not want to leak his own address. He
did send me some abstracts printed from medline by snail mail, and
didn't mention it again.

My current doctor has never asked about helmets, although he did ask if
I had firearms in my home.
  #176  
Old November 8th 19, 04:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 03:57:11 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:


The average age of the members of my bicycle club is precisely 70, and
next year it will be precisely 71. But I can't find this fact on
Wikipedia.


wikipedia long ago savged posts where n=1. Did yours go then.

Snip ad-hominen that some claims he never does.

Andre Jute The pushy little man probably thinks he's clever


Who disagrees that that is a valid comment about AJ.

  #177  
Old November 8th 19, 05:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Thursday, 7 November 2019 22:20:26 UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 03:57:11 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:


The average age of the members of my bicycle club is precisely 70, and
next year it will be precisely 71. But I can't find this fact on
Wikipedia.


wikipedia long ago savged posts where n=1. Did yours go then.

Snip ad-hominen that some claims he never does.

Andre Jute The pushy little man probably thinks he's clever


Who disagrees that that is a valid comment about AJ.


I figured that Jute is a Troll and now I just ignore him.

Cheers
  #178  
Old November 8th 19, 04:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 1:52:45 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 12:24:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/6/2019 10:29 AM, AMuzi wrote:

A perusal of auto repair fora would show problems on modern vehicles for
which, unlike the neat theory Mr Lieberman notes above, multiple pricey
components, each with their own delivery delay and labor, fail to
rectify the problem.


A good friend of mine had trouble with his Buick recently. As I recall,
no cranking, no lights, nothing. Jump starting didn't help. Replacing
the battery didn't help. All fuses were good, etc. He gave up and had it
towed to an independent mechanic, who was similarly baffled.

After about a week, the solution was found. Seems that in the rear
bumper was a backup collision sensor (maybe radar based?) to keep you
from bumping into a telephone pole or something. The sensor had somehow
failed due to some water leakage. But it disabled the whole #@&%! car!


When I was 16 years old my folks retired their old 1937 chevy and
bought a new car. I inherited the old car with the agreement that my
father would pay the insurance and registration and I could drive the
car but had to buy my own gasoline and keep the beast running. At the
age of 16 I could fix anything on the car. We just bought a new car
for my wife and I opened the hood and looked in and I'm not sure where
to check the oil :-(
--
cheers,

John B.


You don't have to check the oil, it has a sensor for it....pfff
Just wanted to mount my winter tires on my new second hand 2017 car. Damn the tires have a wireless pressure sensor built in the valve, so now I have two options for my winter tires: 1. leave as it is and get a tire pressure warning every time I start the car (you can't disable the 'Reifendruck Uberwachung') or also have pressure sensors put in my winter tires/rims; 50 euro a piece...

Lou
  #179  
Old November 8th 19, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Roger Merriman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 385
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 7 November 2019 21:20:43 UTC-5, sms wrote:
I was in Davis, CA today. They have a large bike share program by Jump
(Uber). All of the bike share bikes are electric.


And I'm willing to be that they are ridden as if they were electric
motorcycles NOT electric bicycles.

Cheers


In what way?

Most of the e-bikes I see generally do feel well bike like, they may be
faster than the rider might be expected I pass a middle aged woman
regularly in civies she is broadly the same speed as I which is about
normal for commute type bikes.

Still slower than the racing snakes and far slower than the rare cheap de
restricted ones that are essentially a small motorbike at 30mph ish.

Roger Merriman

  #180  
Old November 8th 19, 07:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On 11/8/2019 7:03 AM, wrote:

snip

You don't have to check the oil, it has a sensor for it....pfff


For some reason, oil level sensors never became mainstream. Too many
people think that the oil pressure warning light indicates when they
need to add oil. In reality, the TEMP light and the OIL light, should
just be labeled "$5000."

Just wanted to mount my winter tires on my new second hand 2017 car. Damn the tires have a wireless pressure sensor built in the valve, so now I have two options for my winter tires: 1. leave as it is and get a tire pressure warning every time I start the car (you can't disable the 'Reifendruck Uberwachung') or also have pressure sensors put in my winter tires/rims; 50 euro a piece...


You also have to program the sensors to your car, something you can't do
yourself. The device to do this is costly. So every time you swap tires
for the winter you'll have to pay to have the TPMS reprogrammed.

The batteries in the TPMS sensors last 5-7 years then require
replacement. In the U.S. the sensors are about $40 each, but unless you
replace them at the same time you get new tires then you also have to
pay for mounting and balancing again since the tire needs to be removed
from the rim to install a new sensor. When my son's car needed new tires
that's when I had the sensors replaced.

Fortunately, some newer cars are doing away with the TPMS sensors. All
that is necessary is to look at the data from the wheel speed sensor and
extrapolate a dangerously low tire pressure. You still have to calibrate
the system with new tires so the proper wheel speed is known. Winter
tires, if they diameter is slightly different, might cause the need for
recalibration.
 




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