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#171
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On 11/7/2019 5:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:04:16 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On 11/7/2019 8:47 AM, sms wrote: On 11/6/2019 3:29 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2019 5:16 PM, Bertrand wrote: But despite decades of gains in percentage of helmet use, bicyclist concussions have risen, not fallen, over 60% in fifteen years or so. That increase completely outstrips any purported rise in riding levels. Maybe the number of REPORTED concussions has gone up, but that doesn't say much about the actual number of concussions. In the U.S., at least, there's much more awareness now of concussions, and they're diagnosed much more frequently than in the past (we used to just say someone "got his bell rung" or "got the wind knocked out of him"). Look at how many more high school and pro athletes are now diagnosed with concussions. So I don't think an increase in reported bicycle concussions leads to any valid conclusion about helmet effectiveness. You'd need, for a start, to compare cycling to other sports. +1 Correct. Taking one piece of data, totally out of context, is unhelpful but unfortunately it's a common occurrence--sometimes done intentionally, sometimes done due to ignorance. The number of actual concussions overall could have gone down as well, since with better protective equipment you don't see reports of things that never happened. Counting ER visits is a particularly poor way of judging the effect of ER visits. Asking ER doctors and nurses about the comparative severity of injuries of the patients they attend to, based on whether or not they were using protective equipment, has at least some validity though there's a large subset that they never see because the protective equipment has made it unnecessary. We have in our family a recently retired emergency room physician. He practiced for many years in a state that imposed a mandatory helmet law for kids. He says rather emphatically that the law made no difference. Unsurprisingly, medical professionals are big proponents of bicycle helmets, and they probably aren't being paid by the helmet industry for their views. They aren't out there saying dumb things to discourage helmet use either, i.e. calling them "foam hats." Our resident AHZs could learn something if they were willing to look at the facts. I believe I've posted more facts and data than anyone here on this issue. But yes, it's true that there are medicos who have jumped on the MHL bandwagon, to one degree or another. I've asked several, and every one has admitted that bicyclists comprise a tiny, tiny percentage of the TBI cases they've seen. None has ever given a cogent response as to why so much nagging should be directed at bicyclists, when many other activities cause so much more TBI. And to be clear, I've known and still know doctors who are helmet skeptics. Are they openly skeptical when talking to patients, during a consultation? Oddly enough, I've never been in the examination room when a doctor has been talking with a patient - except my kids and my wife. But our doctors have all known we were cyclists. None ever mentioned helmets, IIRC. Protocols vary. I got up and walked out when asked 'are there firearms in your home?'. Who died and made you King? -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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#172
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 19:24:22 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 5:45 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:04:16 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On 11/7/2019 8:47 AM, sms wrote: On 11/6/2019 3:29 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2019 5:16 PM, Bertrand wrote: But despite decades of gains in percentage of helmet use, bicyclist concussions have risen, not fallen, over 60% in fifteen years or so. That increase completely outstrips any purported rise in riding levels. Maybe the number of REPORTED concussions has gone up, but that doesn't say much about the actual number of concussions. In the U.S., at least, there's much more awareness now of concussions, and they're diagnosed much more frequently than in the past (we used to just say someone "got his bell rung" or "got the wind knocked out of him"). Look at how many more high school and pro athletes are now diagnosed with concussions. So I don't think an increase in reported bicycle concussions leads to any valid conclusion about helmet effectiveness. You'd need, for a start, to compare cycling to other sports. +1 Correct. Taking one piece of data, totally out of context, is unhelpful but unfortunately it's a common occurrence--sometimes done intentionally, sometimes done due to ignorance. The number of actual concussions overall could have gone down as well, since with better protective equipment you don't see reports of things that never happened. Counting ER visits is a particularly poor way of judging the effect of ER visits. Asking ER doctors and nurses about the comparative severity of injuries of the patients they attend to, based on whether or not they were using protective equipment, has at least some validity though there's a large subset that they never see because the protective equipment has made it unnecessary. We have in our family a recently retired emergency room physician. He practiced for many years in a state that imposed a mandatory helmet law for kids. He says rather emphatically that the law made no difference. Unsurprisingly, medical professionals are big proponents of bicycle helmets, and they probably aren't being paid by the helmet industry for their views. They aren't out there saying dumb things to discourage helmet use either, i.e. calling them "foam hats." Our resident AHZs could learn something if they were willing to look at the facts. I believe I've posted more facts and data than anyone here on this issue. But yes, it's true that there are medicos who have jumped on the MHL bandwagon, to one degree or another. I've asked several, and every one has admitted that bicyclists comprise a tiny, tiny percentage of the TBI cases they've seen. None has ever given a cogent response as to why so much nagging should be directed at bicyclists, when many other activities cause so much more TBI. And to be clear, I've known and still know doctors who are helmet skeptics. Are they openly skeptical when talking to patients, during a consultation? Oddly enough, I've never been in the examination room when a doctor has been talking with a patient - except my kids and my wife. But our doctors have all known we were cyclists. None ever mentioned helmets, IIRC. Protocols vary. I got up and walked out when asked 'are there firearms in your home?'. Who died and made you King? But, Oh My God! Firearms are so dangerous. Why, they will leap right out of the corner and shoot somebody! -- cheers, John B. |
#173
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
I was in Davis, CA today. They have a large bike share program by Jump
(Uber). All of the bike share bikes are electric. |
#174
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Thursday, 7 November 2019 21:20:43 UTC-5, sms wrote:
I was in Davis, CA today. They have a large bike share program by Jump (Uber). All of the bike share bikes are electric. And I'm willing to be that they are ridden as if they were electric motorcycles NOT electric bicycles. Cheers |
#175
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
Frank Krygowski writes:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 5:04:16 PM UTC-5, Radey Shouman wrote: Frank Krygowski writes: On 11/7/2019 8:47 AM, sms wrote: On 11/6/2019 3:29 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 11/6/2019 5:16 PM, Bertrand wrote: But despite decades of gains in percentage of helmet use, bicyclist concussions have risen, not fallen, over 60% in fifteen years or so. That increase completely outstrips any purported rise in riding levels. Maybe the number of REPORTED concussions has gone up, but that doesn't say much about the actual number of concussions.Â* In the U.S., at least, there's much more awareness now of concussions, and they're diagnosed much more frequently than in the past (we used to just say someone "got his bell rung" or "got the wind knocked out of him").Â* Look at how many more high school and pro athletes are now diagnosed with concussions.Â* So I don't think an increase in reported bicycle concussions leads to any valid conclusion about helmet effectiveness. You'd need, for a start, to compare cycling to other sports. +1 Correct. Taking one piece of data, totally out of context, is unhelpful but unfortunately it's a common occurrence--sometimes done intentionally, sometimes done due to ignorance. The number of actual concussions overall could have gone down as well, since with better protective equipment you don't see reports of things that never happened. Counting ER visits is a particularly poor way of judging the effect of ER visits. Asking ER doctors and nurses about the comparative severity of injuries of the patients they attend to, based on whether or not they were using protective equipment, has at least some validity though there's a large subset that they never see because the protective equipment has made it unnecessary. We have in our family a recently retired emergency room physician. He practiced for many years in a state that imposed a mandatory helmet law for kids. He says rather emphatically that the law made no difference. Unsurprisingly, medical professionals are big proponents of bicycle helmets, and they probably aren't being paid by the helmet industry for their views. They aren't out there saying dumb things to discourage helmet use either, i.e. calling them "foam hats." Our resident AHZs could learn something if they were willing to look at the facts. I believe I've posted more facts and data than anyone here on this issue. But yes, it's true that there are medicos who have jumped on the MHL bandwagon, to one degree or another. I've asked several, and every one has admitted that bicyclists comprise a tiny, tiny percentage of the TBI cases they've seen. None has ever given a cogent response as to why so much nagging should be directed at bicyclists, when many other activities cause so much more TBI. And to be clear, I've known and still know doctors who are helmet skeptics. Are they openly skeptical when talking to patients, during a consultation? Oddly enough, I've never been in the examination room when a doctor has been talking with a patient - except my kids and my wife. But our doctors have all known we were cyclists. None ever mentioned helmets, IIRC. Yours? My previous doctor did ask if I used a helmet. When I said I didn't he offered to send me papers on the helmet question via email. He never did, presumably because he did not want to leak his own address. He did send me some abstracts printed from medline by snail mail, and didn't mention it again. My current doctor has never asked about helmets, although he did ask if I had firearms in my home. |
#176
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 03:57:11 -0800, Andre Jute wrote:
The average age of the members of my bicycle club is precisely 70, and next year it will be precisely 71. But I can't find this fact on Wikipedia. wikipedia long ago savged posts where n=1. Did yours go then. Snip ad-hominen that some claims he never does. Andre Jute The pushy little man probably thinks he's clever Who disagrees that that is a valid comment about AJ. |
#177
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Thursday, 7 November 2019 22:20:26 UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 03:57:11 -0800, Andre Jute wrote: The average age of the members of my bicycle club is precisely 70, and next year it will be precisely 71. But I can't find this fact on Wikipedia. wikipedia long ago savged posts where n=1. Did yours go then. Snip ad-hominen that some claims he never does. Andre Jute The pushy little man probably thinks he's clever Who disagrees that that is a valid comment about AJ. I figured that Jute is a Troll and now I just ignore him. Cheers |
#178
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 1:52:45 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 12:24:57 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 11/6/2019 10:29 AM, AMuzi wrote: A perusal of auto repair fora would show problems on modern vehicles for which, unlike the neat theory Mr Lieberman notes above, multiple pricey components, each with their own delivery delay and labor, fail to rectify the problem. A good friend of mine had trouble with his Buick recently. As I recall, no cranking, no lights, nothing. Jump starting didn't help. Replacing the battery didn't help. All fuses were good, etc. He gave up and had it towed to an independent mechanic, who was similarly baffled. After about a week, the solution was found. Seems that in the rear bumper was a backup collision sensor (maybe radar based?) to keep you from bumping into a telephone pole or something. The sensor had somehow failed due to some water leakage. But it disabled the whole #@&%! car! When I was 16 years old my folks retired their old 1937 chevy and bought a new car. I inherited the old car with the agreement that my father would pay the insurance and registration and I could drive the car but had to buy my own gasoline and keep the beast running. At the age of 16 I could fix anything on the car. We just bought a new car for my wife and I opened the hood and looked in and I'm not sure where to check the oil :-( -- cheers, John B. You don't have to check the oil, it has a sensor for it....pfff Just wanted to mount my winter tires on my new second hand 2017 car. Damn the tires have a wireless pressure sensor built in the valve, so now I have two options for my winter tires: 1. leave as it is and get a tire pressure warning every time I start the car (you can't disable the 'Reifendruck Uberwachung') or also have pressure sensors put in my winter tires/rims; 50 euro a piece... Lou |
#179
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, 7 November 2019 21:20:43 UTC-5, sms wrote: I was in Davis, CA today. They have a large bike share program by Jump (Uber). All of the bike share bikes are electric. And I'm willing to be that they are ridden as if they were electric motorcycles NOT electric bicycles. Cheers In what way? Most of the e-bikes I see generally do feel well bike like, they may be faster than the rider might be expected I pass a middle aged woman regularly in civies she is broadly the same speed as I which is about normal for commute type bikes. Still slower than the racing snakes and far slower than the rare cheap de restricted ones that are essentially a small motorbike at 30mph ish. Roger Merriman |
#180
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Will e-bikes expand cycling?
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