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  #1  
Old August 23rd 03, 11:31 AM
Mikefule
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Default Seat comparisons


My first unicycle, a Pashley UMX, had a very crude seat which consisted
of a slightly curved oblong of metal, 2 inches (50mm wide) with an
oblong block of foam on top, all covered by thin nylon cloth. It was
horrible. The padding was useless, so it was like sitting on a metal
bar. the cloth covering tore. Eventually, I found a longer than normal
bicycle seat from a child's bike and found that better, but not
perfect.

When I bought my second unicycle, 15 years later, I was well impressed
by the Viscount seat - clearly a purpose made and well designed piece of
unicycle equipment. The detachable bumpers were a nice touch, I
thought.

Then I was surprised to read in this forum that many people find the
Viscount to be a horrible seat. Perhaps it's perspective: anything woul
be better than my first seat. However, I kept reading about the
wonderful Miyata seat, and I realised there were options.

My next saddle was a Velo (without the handle) and just recently I
bought a Miyata.

So, to help anyone who's thinking of upgrading, here are some
comparisons.

The Viscount has a glued on cover, which means if you tear it, it's
torn, and that's it. It also means fitting a handle means spoiling the
look of the saddle a bit - you have to remove the front part of the
cover and glue it back on. Also, I guess an air seat conversion is
difficult.

The Viscount has removable bumpers, front and rear, held in place with
self-tapping screws. These easily work loose, so much of the time you
find at least one screw is missing. This is irritating, but you can
cure it by using nuts and bolts.

The cover of the Viscount is smooth vinyl, and the saddle has a curved
profile, so it's easy to position yourself so that your anatomy is er...
comfortably divided... and chaffing is seldom a problem. I find the
Viscount most comfortable if positioned as far forward as possible on
the post, which tips the saddle's nose up a bit. The saddle is good for
up to an hour of sit-down road riding, but later stints on the same day
get shorter and shorter. I've managed just a shade under 2 hours
without a dismount... but I knew about it afterwards!

The VELO was an impulse purchase, a luxury item. I bought it without a
handle because that's the one the shop had.

The foam is much deeper. This makes the saddle higher, which means you
need less seat post showing. In extreme cases, this could be a problem
for riders with short legs. At first, the saddle seems very
comfortable, almost like an armchair. However, I find two comfort
problems with it. First, it's a bit wide at the back, which means that
there is too much weight on the wrong part of my 'sit bones'. This may
be a personal thing. For comparison, I'm male, 5'7" (170cm), slim build
and 145 Pounds approx. (66kg.).

The second problem is exclusively male. On a long ride, I find that as
my main body weight sinks into the foam, the thick foam at the front
lifts my danglies and pushes them up into a most uncomfortable position
indeed. I will not provide weight or other measurements for
comparison...

So I find that the VELO is not good for long rides. I did 40 miles
(64km) on the 28 the other day, and half way through the ride, the
second problem described above was what made me turn back. It was
enough to inspire me to buy a Miyata a couple of days later.

The VELO is well made, and the bumpers are attached with stout nuts
rather than screws. The whole look is of a much better wuality piece of
kitthan the Viscount. Part of the cover is cloth rather than vinyl,
which means it attracts and holds dirt, so perhaps it's not ideal for
off road riding. The cover is stapled on. I believe a handle is
available. Without the handle, the seat is too short to pull up on the
front on hills etc. By comparison, the Viscount is longer and provides
a good place to grab and pull even if you don't have a handle.

So, the VELO beats the Viscount on quality and durability, but not on
comfort or practicality.

And the Miyata? It's a smaller, more stylish seat. It weighs about 2.6
pounds compared to the Viscount's 3 pounds (these weights include the
standard length seat post. It certainly feels lighter.

The Miyata is much shallower, with less padding. However, it isn't
uncomfortable. I managed an hour and 15 the other day with only one
very brief dismount to retie my shoe lace. The total ride was 2 1/2
hours and at the end, seat discomfort was not a major problem - I put a
short extra loop on the ride, rather than taking the most direct route
tothe car. On balance, though, Ithink the Miyata is slightly less
comfortable than the Viscount. It feels thinner and the profile feels
'squarer', so your weight is mainly supported on two small parts of your
sit bones.

The Miyata caused none of the love-plum problems which arose with the
VELO.

The Miyata has a moulded plastic handle which is nicely designed for
holding when riding, and is strong enough to pull up on. However, you
can't really lean on it to take the weight off your backside because
it's too flexible. The Viscount wins out on this last point, as it is
long enough torest the heel of your hand on the front to lift your
weight.

Although the Miyata handle is nice, there are two things I'd say: it's
soft plastic, which means it may scratch and develop sharp edges if you
UPD on concrete, and it doesn't give as much control as a proper metal
handle. This is partly the flexibility, and partly because a metal
handle tends to stick further forwards.

The Miyata's cover is held on with metal clips. This means that it
looks like you can strip and replace the cover fairly easily. The
Miyata is clearly a good quality piece of kit.

The Miyata needs a different seat post. On the plus side, the post is
marked with little lines so it's easy to readjust the height exactly.
On the minus side, the seat post appears to allow for no adjustment of
the position of the saddle fore and aft. then again, i always have my
Viscount saddles in exactly the same position, so perhaps one 'right'
position ismore important than a range of 'wrong' positions.

And of the three?

For MUni, when you're not sitting for long periods, the combination of
the strong metal base of the Viscount, and a good handle probaly wins.

For distance riding, possibly the Viscount or the Miyata, but definitely
not the VELO. I prefer the Miyata with the handle to the Viscount
without for cross country.

For freestyle, trials etc.? I'm not really qualified to comment in
detail, but my gut feeling is the lightness of the Miyata, and the good
'pull up' handle would win out.


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we
fall."
Confucius
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  #2  
Old August 23rd 03, 05:39 PM
paco
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Default Seat comparisons


Good analysis, but there are a few things I would change.
The Velo (I assume you mean the KH seat) generally has a really good
handle on it. They are excellent for holding onto while climbing up or
down hills; I also use mine for lifting myself off the seat when my
special parts need a rest. I find that after a few minutes, I feel
better and can ride longer.
I've also heard that the Viscount has the strongest frame of the three.
Don't know if that's true, but it sounds about right. I'm thinking of
taking my old viscount seat, ripping it apart, adding a Reeder handle,
and putting it back together with an airseat conversion. We'll see...


--
paco - Creator of the "BUni"

"One thing is for sure. Inspector Clay is dead. Murdered. And
-somebody's- responsible!"
-Plan 9 From Outer Space
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  #3  
Old August 23rd 03, 10:23 PM
gerblefranklin
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Default Seat comparisons


In my opinion, the velo/KH saddle beats the Miyata for trials because
the handle and seat base have about 1/2 the flex. Although it's lighter,
the miyata handle WILL eventually rip off and that's no good for trials.


--
gerblefranklin

If life had a meaning, would you want to know it?



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  #4  
Old August 23rd 03, 10:45 PM
Mojoe
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Default Seat comparisons


gerblefranklin wrote:
*In my opinion, the velo/KH saddle beats the Miyata for trials because
the handle and seat base have about 1/2 the flex. Although it's
lighter, the miyata handle WILL eventually rip off and that's no good
for trials. *



Ah.. but the KH seat sucks for seat out stuff. There isn't enough of a
lip on the bottom and the foam is so thick. Plus, they flex like crazy.
For trials and muni.... give me a Viscount with a Reeder handle.


Mojoe


--
Mojoe - The Muni Militia

http://mojoe.unicyclist.com/
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  #5  
Old August 23rd 03, 11:36 PM
gerblefranklin
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Default Seat comparisons


I thought we were only talking about stock, non-mod seats. I don't
really hop seat out so the velo works for me, but if we're talkin' mod
seats, give me a carbonfiber airseat with one of Scott Bridgeman's CNC'd
handles and a miyata rear bumper. Take THAT Viscount!


--
gerblefranklin

If life had a meaning, would you want to know it?



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  #6  
Old August 24th 03, 03:36 AM
Ken Fuchs
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Default Seat comparisons

Mikefule wrote:

I agree that the Viscount is the best of the commonly available brands.

For distance riding, possibly the Viscount or the Miyata, but definitely
not the VELO. I prefer the Miyata with the handle to the Viscount
without for cross country.


I actually prefer the standard Viscount with no handle (I find that the
front of this seat is easy to hold with one hand) to a Miyata air
seat with standard Miyata handle. As Mikefule says, it is probable that
the shape of the Viscount fits better than the Miyata (even with air
conversion).

Sincerely,

Ken Fuchs
  #7  
Old August 24th 03, 03:49 AM
ubersquish
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Default Seat comparisons


how does the torker saddle rate compared to these others?


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ubersquish
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  #8  
Old August 24th 03, 04:27 AM
duaner
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Default Seat comparisons


ubersquish wrote:
*how does the torker saddle rate compared to these others? *



And, does anyone know: Is the torker saddle that comes with the stealth
(the 48spoke black torker), at all different from the Miyata? To my
casual observation, it is exactly the same seat except for the color.


--
duaner - -
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  #9  
Old August 24th 03, 05:33 AM
uniryder777
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Default Seat comparisons


hahah........ I'll stick with the Custom Miyata/Roach Air seat with the
Bridgeman CNC handle. Thats a heavy duty seat for ya!! Don't weigh too
much either!

-WOO


--
uniryder777 - Intermediate Trials Rider

Bloody shins in CT!!!
www.insane.unicyclist.com
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  #10  
Old August 24th 03, 11:58 AM
onewheeldave
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Default Seat comparisons


Does anyone else do what I do and get hold of the really cheap saddles
whose cover is held on by the seat bolts rather than glued on?

You can then take the cover off and do a basic airseat conversion by
ripping out the foam and sticking an 20" inner tube b4 replacing the
cover.

It's good to drill a hole in the base for easy access to the tube valve
but not essential; I've been riding one where the valve's just tucked
down the rear edge of the base plate.

I don't do this just to save money, I find it a genuinly comfortable
seat.

Unfortunately I've never ridden miyatas or velos so I can't offer any
comparison. The viscount seems like a decent seat but I just think it's
a shame that the cover is glued on.

My experience with foam seats (admittedly the cheap ones) is that I get
roughly an hour of comfortable riding and then distress sets in.

With the airseat conversion I can ride for several hours.


--
onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist

"He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
the Muni that really fires him up."

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