Broke three spokes and now I'm worried!

So on Friday I went for a long ride with a large group of folks here in
Brooklyn. The pace was slow and the vibe was good. That is until I
heard a TWONK TWONK PING!

The broken spokes allowed my wheel to warp to the point that it jammed
in my frame. Down I went and I hit the ground pretty hard. After an
hour of work I managed to get my wheel to turn in the frame and I
limped 10 miles home.

When this happened I was going about 8 mph on a flat. No bumps or
trauma to the wheel for the whole ride up to that point -- which had
been about 15 miles.

I took the bike in to my LBS and asked (based on some googling and
reading online) for them to rebuild my rear wheel. It is a stock wheel
on a cheap bike and my feeling was that I'd like a hand-built,
hand-tensioned rear wheel. I also asked after thicker spokes since I'm
a big guy (235lbs and dropping.) I very regularly ride this bike quite
far from home and don't want a repeat. Also, the bike is relatively
new, bought in May and I've done about 175 miles a week on it since
then.

They *refused* to rebuild my wheel saying that it was unneeded. They
were snobby and rude about it, too. I finally relented and they are
replacing the spokes and trueing the wheel. Their final word: "If the
new spokes break too then we'll know we have a problem." I don't
*want* the new spokes to break. I rode 8000 miles on my last set of
wheels and never had a single spoke break.

So I have two questions:

1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke? The LBS guy said that I had some
grit on my hub and that was the likely cause -- that the dirt and grit
had ground away at the spokes.

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not
needed? I'm planning on riding a century on this bike on September
12th and it would really make me mad if I had some spoke problems that
took me out.

robb- I took the bike in to my LBS and asked (based on some googling and
reading online) for them to rebuild my rear wheel. BRBR
They *refused* to rebuild my wheel saying that it was unneeded. BRBR


Dopes. One spoke and perhaps I'd give it a try. Three spokes and it's new rim,
perhaps new spokes and a good build. Find a new shop that has a wheel 'guru'.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Robb Monn wrote:
1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke? The LBS guy said that I had some
grit on my hub and that was the likely cause -- that the dirt and grit
had ground away at the spokes.

That's utter rubbish. If dirt on hubs broke spokes, I'd have none left.
:-)
--
David Damerell Distortion Field!

1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke?

Probably a machine-built wheel, spokes not properly tensioned and/or stress
relieved. This is most likely to affect drive-side spokes on the rear wheel,
with the spoke breaking at the bend where it goes through the hub flange.

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not needed?

Yes.

A well built and properly tensioned wheel should hold up for a VERY long time.
(Individual random spoke failures are rare, but they do occur. This spring I
replaced a DS spoke that broke after ~10k miles on a rear wheel that I built,
and have continued riding that wheel uneventfully several thousand miles.)
Yours is not this situation. You have a poorly built wheel, and in all
likelihood will continue breaking spokes until it is relaced with ALL NEW
spokes, properly tensioned and stress-relieved -- or replaced with a new wheel.

grit on my hub... was the likely cause... ground away at the spokes

This is lame bull****. Is that what your LBS stands for? Ask the manager. If
he defends that hypothesis, take your business elsewhere.


Mike Yankee

(Address is munged to thwart spammers.
To reply, delete everything after "com".)

Robb Monn wrote:

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not
needed? I'm planning on riding a century on this bike on September
12th and it would really make me mad if I had some spoke problems that
took me out.

I wouldn't even bother with them again. Even if they're the only ones
around that's within an hours driving distance. If I were you I'd learn
to build wheels. If you can't be bothered with that and money is no
problem there are a bunch of folks here on this board who would be more
than happy to make you a bomb-proof wheel.

Kenny Lee

Speaking as a wheel builder with 15 year experiences, I'd say RUN!

3 spokes breaking on a flat while you're just cruising along? I'd say the
wheel was unevenly tensioned to begin with. Sounds like the shop mech would
pulled it from the box and assembled it didn't check the wheels for tension
from the factory.

It was an accident waiting to happen. Be glad you weren't decending or
something more...

As a side note I really like using butted spokes and always recommend
(despite being a little harder to build with), especially for big guys like
you. They tend to stretch more than break.




"Robb Monn" wrote in message
...
So on Friday I went for a long ride with a large group of folks here in
Brooklyn. The pace was slow and the vibe was good. That is until I
heard a TWONK TWONK PING!

The broken spokes allowed my wheel to warp to the point that it jammed
in my frame. Down I went and I hit the ground pretty hard. After an
hour of work I managed to get my wheel to turn in the frame and I
limped 10 miles home.

When this happened I was going about 8 mph on a flat. No bumps or
trauma to the wheel for the whole ride up to that point -- which had
been about 15 miles.

I took the bike in to my LBS and asked (based on some googling and
reading online) for them to rebuild my rear wheel. It is a stock wheel
on a cheap bike and my feeling was that I'd like a hand-built,
hand-tensioned rear wheel. I also asked after thicker spokes since I'm
a big guy (235lbs and dropping.) I very regularly ride this bike quite
far from home and don't want a repeat. Also, the bike is relatively
new, bought in May and I've done about 175 miles a week on it since
then.

They *refused* to rebuild my wheel saying that it was unneeded. They
were snobby and rude about it, too. I finally relented and they are
replacing the spokes and trueing the wheel. Their final word: "If the
new spokes break too then we'll know we have a problem." I don't
*want* the new spokes to break. I rode 8000 miles on my last set of
wheels and never had a single spoke break.

So I have two questions:

1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke? The LBS guy said that I had some
grit on my hub and that was the likely cause -- that the dirt and grit
had ground away at the spokes.

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not
needed? I'm planning on riding a century on this bike on September
12th and it would really make me mad if I had some spoke problems that
took me out.

thank you thank you.

I called the shop and spoke to the manager. He felt that his mechaninc
would have done the right thing in any case -- never allowing a bad
wheel to leave the shop and it was just a matter of the clerk trying to
be helpful. In any case it hurts a little to go in to a shop without a
lot bike mech knowledge and ask for the right thing and have people
tell you you're crazy.

I'm letting this shop do the job since my bike is already there, but
I'm considering moving on. Anyone have a good suggestion for a shop in
downtown Brooklyn?

On 16 Aug 2004 05:47:22 -0700, "Robb Monn"
wrote:

So I have two questions:

1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke? The LBS guy said that I had some
grit on my hub and that was the likely cause -- that the dirt and grit
had ground away at the spokes.

The symptomology is consistent with a lack of stress-relief in the
assembly process, though it's unusual to have three fail at the same
time. I find their analysis potentially questionable; I'd likely find
it even more questionable if I had the chance to examine the hub, as
"dirt and grit grinding away at the spokes" is not a cause I find
credible at all.

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not
needed? I'm planning on riding a century on this bike on September
12th and it would really make me mad if I had some spoke problems that
took me out.

Frankly, my impression of the situation is that the wheel is probably
not in the right hands...but what to do will depend on a lot of
things. If it were me, I'd buy five spokes, lace three in,
stress-relieve *all* of the spokes (with the expectation that one or
two might pop in doing so), and then finish tensioning and truing the
wheel. In your situation, I'd ask them to stress-relieve all of the
spokes after replacing the broken ones. If you get a blank stare or
an argument, I'd say that it's best to take the wheel somewhere else.

The front wheel probably needs stress-relieving as well.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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In article ,
says...
So on Friday I went for a long ride with a large group of folks here in
Brooklyn. The pace was slow and the vibe was good. That is until I
heard a TWONK TWONK PING!

The broken spokes allowed my wheel to warp to the point that it jammed
in my frame. Down I went and I hit the ground pretty hard. After an
hour of work I managed to get my wheel to turn in the frame and I
limped 10 miles home.

When this happened I was going about 8 mph on a flat. No bumps or
trauma to the wheel for the whole ride up to that point -- which had
been about 15 miles.

I took the bike in to my LBS and asked (based on some googling and
reading online) for them to rebuild my rear wheel. It is a stock wheel
on a cheap bike and my feeling was that I'd like a hand-built,
hand-tensioned rear wheel. I also asked after thicker spokes since I'm
a big guy (235lbs and dropping.) I very regularly ride this bike quite
far from home and don't want a repeat. Also, the bike is relatively
new, bought in May and I've done about 175 miles a week on it since
then.

They *refused* to rebuild my wheel saying that it was unneeded. They
were snobby and rude about it, too. I finally relented and they are
replacing the spokes and trueing the wheel. Their final word: "If the
new spokes break too then we'll know we have a problem." I don't
*want* the new spokes to break. I rode 8000 miles on my last set of
wheels and never had a single spoke break.

So I have two questions:

1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke? The LBS guy said that I had some
grit on my hub and that was the likely cause -- that the dirt and grit
had ground away at the spokes.

A badly built wheel. I'm a little lighter than you, and have had spokes
break on machine-built wheels. Never 3 at a time, but once one failed,
others failed soon after even though I replaced the failed spokes
immediately.

Most cheap wheels seem to be inadequately tensioned and/or unevenly
tensioned.

I've had very good success buying machine built wheels on sale and re-
truing/tensioning/stress relieving them myself. Just be sure to get a
good spoke wrench.

I like the VAR 51/13 Professional model. It's probably not the very best
spoke wrench there is, but IMHO it's the best for the money. You can
order by email.

See: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/t...#spokewrenches

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not
needed? I'm planning on riding a century on this bike on September
12th and it would really make me mad if I had some spoke problems that
took me out.

Despite the fact that I think they're responsible, I wouldn't ask them
to fix the wheel. I wouldn't trust them to do it properly. As I noted
above, when I had spokes fail in a cheap wheel, others seemed to follow
within weeks or at the most, months.

Rick

In article ,
"Robb Monn" wrote:

So on Friday I went for a long ride with a large group of folks here in
Brooklyn. The pace was slow and the vibe was good. That is until I
heard a TWONK TWONK PING!

The broken spokes allowed my wheel to warp to the point that it jammed
in my frame. Down I went and I hit the ground pretty hard. After an
hour of work I managed to get my wheel to turn in the frame and I
limped 10 miles home.

When this happened I was going about 8 mph on a flat. No bumps or
trauma to the wheel for the whole ride up to that point -- which had
been about 15 miles.

I took the bike in to my LBS and asked (based on some googling and
reading online) for them to rebuild my rear wheel. It is a stock wheel
on a cheap bike and my feeling was that I'd like a hand-built,
hand-tensioned rear wheel. I also asked after thicker spokes since I'm
a big guy (235lbs and dropping.) I very regularly ride this bike quite
far from home and don't want a repeat. Also, the bike is relatively
new, bought in May and I've done about 175 miles a week on it since
then.

They *refused* to rebuild my wheel saying that it was unneeded. They
were snobby and rude about it, too. I finally relented and they are
replacing the spokes and trueing the wheel. Their final word: "If the
new spokes break too then we'll know we have a problem." I don't
*want* the new spokes to break. I rode 8000 miles on my last set of
wheels and never had a single spoke break.

So I have two questions:

1.) Any ideas on why my spokes broke? The LBS guy said that I had some
grit on my hub and that was the likely cause -- that the dirt and grit
had ground away at the spokes.

2.) Should I call them and insist on a rebuild or is it really not
needed? I'm planning on riding a century on this bike on September
12th and it would really make me mad if I had some spoke problems that
took me out.

Here's what you need to do. After the spokes are replaced, stand on the
wheel while it is tilted at 30 degrees. Also form the bend of each
spoke where it touches another spoke, as the normally tensioned spoke
won't be sufficiently straight. And don't forget to use linseed oil on
the spoke threads, ordinary oil just isn't good enough.

If you don't believe me, just ask Trevor Jeffrey.