|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#61
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: ...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball. Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action. Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there. -- - Frank Krygowski |
Ads |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 11:55:07 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2019 4:15 AM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 01:07:20 -0700 (PDT), Chalo wrote: John B. fails to understand ethics. Ah yes, the ultimate response. But I always thought that telling lies, trying to rape women and bribing people was the American Way. After all you elected a guy that does that to be your leader. Ohferchrissake. He's been out of office since 21 January 2001. You mean the guy with the golden comb over got kicked out even before he got elected :-? -- cheers, John B. |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 12:02:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 9/9/2019 12:19 AM, John B. wrote: I would say, though, that I've been riding a bike for, probably, 30 years or so and I never seen a bike crash. Truck crash, airplane crash, car crash, motorcycle crash, but never a bicycle crash. I've seen plenty of bike crashes, but they've all been solo falls or, occasionally, minor bike-bike crashes (club rides or others riding together). I've seen a very few of those result in moderate injury (broken collar bone, concussion despite wearing a helmet, etc.). Almost all of them involved nothing worse than a little road rash, so they are very appropriately under the radar. Yes. When I wrote that I was thinking of bicycle/auto crashes, but of course there are probably more single vehicle crashes where the bicycle does some stupid thing and crashes - like the time I rode under a tree and didn't duck low enough :-) -- cheers, John B. |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 12:09:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 9/9/2019 2:30 AM, Chalo wrote: John B. wrote: "California Highway Patrol data from 2012 show there were 5,090 collisions in LA County that year involving bikes and cars. In 2,759 of those cases, the CHP determined the cyclist was at fault and in 1,878 cases, they determined the car driver was to blame.". That's perverse reasoning. The one who unilaterally brings on a mortal hazard is primarily to blame when something goes wrong. If some nutjob is shooting a firearm down a residential street for reasons known only to himself, and a child running around as unpredictably and harmlessly as a child gets shot, is it the child's fault? And is it really an accident? Drivers should be assessed as the moral transgressors that they are. I'd like to see the laws assume that a motorist is legally at fault. Motorists could hire a lawyer to present evidence proving they were not, but absent such proof, the assumption should be they were at fault. As I've previously written, in Thailand there is a law, or policy, that the bigger vehicle is at fault, subject to any evidence to the contrary. And, being at fault, is responsible for costs and damages. In the case of a bicycle/auto crash the auto would automatically, subject to proof of the contrary, be blamed for the accident and thus would be liable for all costs. If the bicyclist was killed in the crash than the auto would normally offer monetary compensation to the family. If no compensation is offered, or the family considers it insufficient, than a complaint is made and the driver charged with "causing a death" which would normally result in a jail sentence. Having said that, there's only a snowball's chance this would happen in America - or even in just one American state. (Each state has its own traffic laws.) But compensation for loss of life, I believe based on lifelong earning capability, is established in some cases. I believe the defining case was against the cable car company in San Francisco. Jay would know. With only a word or so changed it could be apply to vehicle crashes. Perhaps the way to move in that direction would be to first lobby for such a law in designated residential areas. Couple it with traffic calming measures that would keep MV speeds down to 20 mph. -- cheers, John B. |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 11:49:54 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2019 11:19 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 13:24:48 +1000, James wrote: On 9/9/19 9:03 am, John B. wrote: And a number of studies have shown that as many as half, or more, of bicycle auto collisions are the fault of the cyclist... but I don't suppose that the League highlighted that :-) "California Highway Patrol data from 2012 show there were 5,090 collisions in LA County that year involving bikes and cars. In 2,759 of those cases, the CHP determined the cyclist was at fault and in 1,878 cases, they determined the car driver was to blame." Perhaps there is a cultural difference at work to explain the difference in Australia, where a number of studies have concluded that the drivers are at fault in something like 4 out of 5 cases. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed...s-report-finds It seems to depend largely on who is writing the reports. The CHP report I mentioned was written by them for (I imagine) their headquarters. I've also read a report from a couple of sites about coroner's reports showing a rather large percent of dead cyclists that "had drink taken" But when you turn to the Bicycle page it immediately becomes "t'wasn't us, it was some other guy done it", which, I guess, makes sense :-) News reports about bicycles are nearly all dependent on somebody else, if for no other reason than the usual news writer knows nothing about bicycles. As an aside, it used to be that a news writer had to apply the 5 W's - Who, What, When, Where, Why - was the rule. Now if one can get a little blood in the first paragraph that is all you need. I would say, though, that I've been riding a bike for, probably, 30 years or so and I never seen a bike crash. Truck crash, airplane crash, car crash, motorcycle crash, but never a bicycle crash. Here in Thailand the official number of motorcycle crashes are about 5,500 motorcycle crashes annually. I asked my neighbor who is a Police Senior Sergeant with 20-odd years service about bicycle crashes and he said something along the lines that ,"I think I remember we had one, one time". In my own mind, I do not believe that riding a bicycle is a particularly dangerous pastime. (with or without helmet :-) -- cheers, John B. I don't know. Perusing the news every morning I assume that reports are completely opaque because neither the police agency nor the reporters give a crap about bicyclists one way or the other, Typical example: https://ktla.com/2019/09/07/82-year-...in-long-beach/ What exactly happened? No idea whatsoever. Official statistics may well classify this as an anomaly or UFO-related event or what have you. And way down at the bottom of the article they ask for witnesses to come forward. So they don't know what happened and they are trying to find out. Fair enough. -- cheers, John B. |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 9/9/2019 1:54 PM, Ted Heise wrote: On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 10:29:48 -0700, Mark J. wrote: On 9/8/2019 6:16 PM, jbeattie wrote: I don't use a mirror, but my head does turn, and I can see a car or truck approaching from behind, and I continue to do what I'm doing. A mirror might be helpful when I'm passing cyclists and have to drop into traffic while watching the cyclist ahead, but it may also be a distraction. I don't know. I used mirror for two days forty years ago and hated it. I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. I get close passes while riding lane center. Cars just do stupid things whether you're looking at them through a mirror or not. There is a learning curve here, and I think most of it is at the subconscious level. My first use was pretty much 40 years ago also, and also after a few days I gave up - for a bit. Tried again shortly afterward and have been happily "mirrored" ever since. It's so much nicer to see what's going on back there. I use a mirror too, but I find turning my head to look back at overtaking cars often has its own effect. The driver tends to give me more space, or even wait a bit. My theory is that seeing a face humanizes the rider in the driver's mind. I agree. Of course, using a mirror doesn't preclude turning one's head to look behind. One of the trickier traffic riding moves is to negotiate with following drivers when I have to merge leftward - say, to make my way over to a center left turn lane. The mirror helps the process by letting me spot gaps in traffic. When I choose a potential gap, I'll signal and look back at the next driver. In almost all cases, they'll cooperate and let me move left. I repeat as needed if another lane change is necessary, as on a four lane highway. I think the turning and looking does make it more a person-to-person thing. I don't know whether it makes it more personal but it certainly does make the driver aware that you are alert and interested in what is happening around you. Whether it be flashing lights, waving flags, waving your arms and screaming, or just looking alive and alert on the bike, anything that makes the motor vehicle aware of the bicycle is beneficial. -- cheers, John B. |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: ...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball. Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action. Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there. Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by one the other day. No noise at all. -- cheers, John B. |
#68
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: ...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball. Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action. Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there. Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by one the other day. No noise at all. Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain. -- Jay Beattie. |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Monday, 9 September 2019 12:50:34 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/9/2019 12:04 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 9:12:43 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: It's interesting to me that you get close passes all the time. I don't.. For me, they are _very_ rare. Our riding environments differ, of course. But yours is supposed to be bicycling paradise. Mine is supposed to be nothing special. Maybe a few times per year, someone will pass close even when I'm at lane center. In that case, the benefit of being at lane center is: I can move right if necessary. IME, riding at the edge generates more close passes, and there's nowhere to go to escape them. Lots to talk about below. In general, I tell people the bicyclist gets to make the choice about lane position, so I'm not going to say anyone was wrong. But there are times I would do it differently - either further left or further right. Typical close pass is riding lane center, fast, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNonAs33rQ0 At 0:10 on that bridge, I think I'd have been further right! It looks like there's enough room to easily share the lane. I see the marker cones ahead, though, and maybe he was afraid he'd run into them? Real popular on Skyline, although this video is the suicidal pass versus the close pass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jj9Ok7_Mk At about 0:50, where the cyclists can see around the bend but the motorist probably cannot, I'd definitely be in the LEFT tire track, and waving for the motorists to stay back. Especially the second motorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENVpi3G0KhM That guy's almost on top of the white edge line a lot of the time. Nope, I'm not going to do that. Because of traffic congestion on HWY 26 and the usual arterials (Burnside), you end up with a lot of people speeding around on the roads through the hills. You'll like this one. He's kind of whiner, but when you're lane center going the speed limit and people are still squeezing by, it does get annoying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9_juBzWn3A The video guy is a wannabee cop - and he'd make a bad cop. Yes, it may be technically illegal to use part of the center turn lane when passing a cyclist (actually, Ohio law seems unclear; it's specifically legal to cross a yellow to pass a bike or other vehicle going less than half the speed limit) but I normally have no objections to it. I find those three lane roads pretty pleasant for riding, precisely because almost all motorists pass that way, giving me plenty of clearance. There are places in that video where I'd probably share the lane by moving right. About speeding drivers who are otherwise behaving: Sometimes I may shake my head, but there's no way I get as worked up as the video guy. Geez, he's setting himself up for a coronary event! Other close passes are in bike facilities following winding roads when cars wander over. Buses wander into the bike lane on SW Barbur a lot, sometimes when you're next to them. And then they pull over. I know an avid utility cyclist and cycling advocate who had that happen to her. She got the bus number and called the transit agency. They didn't actually apologize, but I bet the bus driver heard about it later. I'd suspect a letter from a lawyer would raise even more ruckus in the transit agency. -- - Frank Krygowski What do you do if you wave at a motorist to stay back and they don't? Do you maintain your left in the lane position and hope that they see you and that for whatever reason you don't end up with that run down feeling? Cheers |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
Yet another cyclist killed. pH (Several, actually)
On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:11:27 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:41:25 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:14:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/9/2019 5:00 PM, Steve Weeks wrote: On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 8:16:13 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote: ...I was hit from the rear by a bus, and a mirror would have done nothing to avoid that. I get close passes all the time, and again, a mirror would do nothing. What the mirror does is give you the opportunity to see the object approaching from behind and make a judgement as to its threat level. Also, it allows you to do this frequently (especially when you hear a vehicle approaching from behind) without much more than a flick of an eyeball. Even those riders with acute hearing would be unlikely to distinguish between a bus and a bus with an extended side-view mirror; the mirror-equipped rider would have a better chance to take evasive action. Yes, hearing is unreliable. Especially on windy days, I've been surprise by a passing car I never heard. In one case I remember, traffic had been so light the the road surface so bad that I hadn't been checking my mirror. I was shocked when I checked and saw the car right there. Wait until you come across one of these hi-bred cars. I was passed by one the other day. No noise at all. Except for tire slap. The electric cars are stealthy in dry weather but about like any other quiet gas-powered sedan in the rain. The rains have started, and I'm bucking up for the acoustic assault of tire slap, wet glasses, light glare, etc., etc. Another fall, winter, spring of riding in the rain. -- Jay Beattie. Tire slap? What is tire slap? A clean rubber tire rolling down a smooth black-top road doesn't slap. (It doesn't even tap it's fingertips together) -- cheers, John B. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Another cyclist killed | Mentalguy2k8[_2_] | UK | 5 | December 19th 13 12:50 PM |
Cyclist killed | Anton Berlin | Racing | 2 | July 24th 10 04:08 AM |
Pedestrian killed by cyclist (BNE) and cyclist killed by car (MEL) | Adrian Cook | Australia | 26 | July 20th 06 03:55 AM |
Cyclist killed | endroll | Australia | 0 | September 24th 05 08:46 AM |
Cyclist Killed | Jimscozz | Recumbent Biking | 1 | November 28th 03 04:39 PM |