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#61
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:25:06 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:43:12 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:11:18 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. Maybe if you didn't wear shoes, you'd have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you are just being a hypocrite. No, the point is that - by engaging in an activity shown to do equal damage to trails Repeating that lie doesn't make it true. That "lie" is backed up by scientists who are accredited and publish in peer-reviewed journals. Name ONE such scientist. (Hint: you can't.) Mike, I'm not going to do your homework for you. You know the references I am referring to very well, as you've cited them in the pieces of trash you continually post here. Just because you don't agree with the *actual research* doesn't change it. How can you be so blind? I mean, everything you say flies in the face of real science. Your idiotic thread on cell phones causing cancer, for example. You cannot argue with data! Yet you continue your flaming diatribes . . with no results except for a rather large peanut gallery telling you to take a hike . . or drop off the planet. You do not, and your opinion is therefore meaningless. Get the picture? |
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#62
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 23:46:19 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 15:01:30 GMT, jason wrote: Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! hey mikey take a look, cell phones DONT cause cancer. Is the rest of your research and facts as accurate? Where in my signature do you see the word "cancer"? Idiot. Then what danger are you referring to if not previous (and controversial) studies linking cell phones to cancer? "Benign" tumors on the auditory nerve (done in Sweden). Breakdown of the blood-brain barrier. Etc. http://www.wrcbtv.com/news/index.cfm?sid=4926 http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/heal...p?newsid=58298 === Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#63
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 23:37:29 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message news On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 17:28:25 -0500, "S Curtiss" wrote: Here's the reference to the original article, entitled Gridlock in Wild Areas. The article suggests ways to mitigate user conflicts in recreation areas. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sn=001&sc=1000 Yeah, by taking trails away from the majority, and giving them over to exclusive use by a minority: mountain bikers. Exaggeration. Sensationalism. Fabrication. Show us where cyclists have "exclusive use" of the public trail system. It's a proposal. It's an OPINION. Please explain how interest in the outdoors (including hiking) continues to GROW if off-road cyclists are chasing everyone away. It isn't. It's decreasing. National parks are losing visitors. I didn't say National Parks. I said the OUTDOORS. Can't you read? National Parks are brcoming difficult to visit (higher gas prices) while interest in other options are becoming more available. Numbers are also fluctuating but not so drastically as being claimed. While they do show a trend lending to an overall decline, the factors involved do not include off-road cycling chasing people out You are lying again. I have seen numerous parks where hikers & equestrians were driven out by the presence of mountain bikers. (most National Parks do not allow off-road cycling). It is the more local and available public access land that is attracting people with a wide variety of outdoor options. Your attempt to throw cycling under the bus as a cause for National Parks' decline is simply a stupid gesture of impotence. It hasn't happened, luckily. But every hiking trail with lots of mountain bikers on it will eventually drive away all the hikers. OPINION. It is easy to say sensational things in attempts to sway emotion and public attention. Fortunately, it also easy to locate the TRUTH about outdoor cooperation and safety. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#64
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:20:41 -0800, cc wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote: On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:47:23 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 17:05:49 GMT, "Roberto Baggio" wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: 2. Allowing bikes on trails forces land managers to either (a) build more trails, thus destroying more wildlife habitat or (b) kick hikers off of some of their trails, in order to cater to a small minority of recreationists (mountain bikers). Neither is fair or wise. So being fair to minorities is a bad thing? Yes, if it harms the majority. But mountain bikers already have access to every trail, so they aren't being discriminated against, in spite of what they say. Mike, enough of this semantic bull****. It's gone on long enough. For the purposes of this argument - and many others - a mountain biker is referred to as such when he is on a bike. Not according to the dictionary. I'm sorry. Which dictionary do you own? The MJV version? Welcome to "reality". Take your pick. A mountain biker is someone who habiltally rides a bike off-road. You don't stop being a mountain biker just because you get off your bike. DUH! When I am on a trail and not on my bike, I am a hiker. So yes, a mountain biker is discriminated against when he is told he cannot take his bike on trails. BS. Hikers & equestrians also can't take a bike on trails. THE EXACT SAME RULE APPLIES TO EVERYONE, so there can't be any discrimination. You have done absolutely nothing to address the point I brought up. As usual. Imagine telling a homosexual that he/she is not discriminated against -- as long as they don't practice. It's just stupid and you know it. Yet, you continue as usual . . You're not just delusional - you're also a bigot. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#65
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 02:23:36 -0800, cc wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote: On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:14:05 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:44:36 -0800, cc wrote: Roberto Baggio wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: 2. Allowing bikes on trails forces land managers to either (a) build more trails, thus destroying more wildlife habitat or (b) kick hikers off of some of their trails, in order to cater to a small minority of recreationists (mountain bikers). Neither is fair or wise. So being fair to minorities is a bad thing? You're not just delusional - you're also a bigot. No, just honest -- something mountain bikers wouldn't understand. Do you want me to spell it out for you, moron? Describing negative experiences with mountain bikers is being honest. Extrapolating those experiences to EVERY mountain biker is bigotry. Nope, it's called "observation". Again, you have done nothing to demonstrate anything but wild speculation. Observation does in no case warrant such ridiculous extrapolation or zealous rhetoric. If you were a scientist, you would realize this. Obviously, you are not. Observations are the foundation of science. DUH! Try a dictionary, asshole. Yes. This has been amply established. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#66
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 13:14:21 -0800, cc wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote: On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 12:25:06 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:43:12 -0800, cc wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:11:18 -0700, Paul Cassel wrote: Mike Vandeman wrote: Mountain bikes are inanimate objects and have no rights. Neither do hiking shoes. Maybe if you didn't wear shoes, you'd have a leg to stand on. Otherwise, you are just being a hypocrite. No, the point is that - by engaging in an activity shown to do equal damage to trails Repeating that lie doesn't make it true. That "lie" is backed up by scientists who are accredited and publish in peer-reviewed journals. Name ONE such scientist. (Hint: you can't.) Mike, I'm not going to do your homework for you. You know the references I am referring to very well, as you've cited them in the pieces of trash you continually post here. (Just as I said: you can't!!!!!) Just because you don't agree with the *actual research* doesn't change it. How can you be so blind? I mean, everything you say flies in the face of real science. Your idiotic thread on cell phones causing cancer, for example. You cannot argue with data! Yet you continue your flaming diatribes . . with no results except for a rather large peanut gallery telling you to take a hike . . or drop off the planet. You do not, and your opinion is therefore meaningless. Get the picture? === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#67
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 23:43:47 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message .. . On 4 Dec 2006 10:44:07 -0800, "Beej" wrote: On Dec 4, 9:03 am, Mike Vandeman wrote: by taking trails away from the majority, and giving them over to exclusive use by a minority: mountain bikers. There is no user conflict. the conflict is merely over the presence of BIKES, which are not users. It'd be like one of those trails where only mountain bikers were allowed, but not mountain bikes. :-) Fortunately, most people are pretty nice. Lots of friendly hikers are out there when I bike, and lots of friendly bikers are out there when I hike. I like the multi-use single track in China Camp--everyone seems to get along just fine, there. Of course, because most of the hikers & equestrians who don't like being around mountain bikers were driven out of the park! He just stated the multi-use option is working and that everyone gets along fine. Can't you read? Your denying the statements of an eye witness has NO merit. I'm not convinced this bikes-only route is the way to go. It seems like it would breed resentment instead of a spirit of cooperation. As long as mountain bikers are friendly, courteous, and respectful to other trail users, they'll always be welcomed. BS. It's the BIKES we object to. There's nothing dangerous about not smiling. There is no "we" that is objecting. It is YOU and an extremist minority that has never been satisfied and vilify everything outside of your narrow view with nothing but emotion and opinion. The huge number of multi-use trails in the country speaks for itself in this regard. Yes - They do! -Beej === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! HEADLINE NEWS ITEM THIS WEEK The study, published this week in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, is the largest yet to find no bad news about the safety of cell phones and the radio-frequency energy they emit. LIAR! That was ONLY about CANCER! DUH! === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
#68
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On 9 Dec 2006 01:34:33 -0800, "Beej" wrote:
On Dec 8, 9:04 am, Mike Vandeman wrote: Of course, because most of the hikers & equestrians who don't like being around mountain bikers were driven out of the park! I can only imagine it's a minority of hikers and equestrians who have been driven out because a) tons of hikers and equestrians use multi-use parks and b) those driven out are not a political force to be reckoned with. And you have my sympathy, because being in the minority sucks. But in this particular case, I'm not going to join you. BS. It's the BIKES we object to. Sorry, Mike, but I don't buy into this whole biker/bike semantic dichotomy. So you don't know the difference between a bike and a biker?!!! You really ARE stupid, aren't you? As far as I'm concerned for the purposes of any debate involving mountain biking, a mountain biker without a mountain bike is a hiker. So when I say "mountain biker", you can read that with the understanding that I mean "hiker on a mountain bike". And you're welcome to readdress my point with that terminology in mind, if you so desire. -Beej === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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Another Vandemann Lie!! Actually a number of them. But what else is new?
On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 18:38:42 GMT, wizardB wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote: On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:52:02 GMT, "JP" wrote: "Mike Vandeman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 03:52:22 GMT, "JP" wrote: wrote in message ps.com... Mike Vandeman wrote: There are several things wrong with Tom Stienstra's approach: Here's the reference to the original article, entitled Gridlock in Wild Areas. The article suggests ways to mitigate user conflicts in recreation areas. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...sn=001&sc=1000 So where's the lie? (Hint: there aren't any. That's why you didn't quote any.) Wrong, you poor wannabe naturalist. Your unsubstantiated opinion is the LIE. Yu haven't cited evidence to back any of your claims. Ever. Your website is not proof. But you can't help it. There is no evidence that supports any of your claims. No legitimate agenmcy will give you the time of day. That is why your sad little impotent quest gets played out on AMB 1. Citizens have the right to use wilderness areas, our taxes support them. Nope, restrictions are allowed. That's why Yosmite National Park doesn't allow mountain biking. That use includes two wheeled non-motorized vehicles. I spooked horses running on trails...LIAR!!!! 2. Hikers have no more right to trails than bikes, regardless of your opinion. \Bikes don't habve any rights. Hikers do. Neither do horses. If an equestrian cannot control their animal they do not belong in public. LIAR!!! 3. Bikes are no more harmful to the environment than pedestrian use, in fact hikers like wider trails. You know that's a lie. Your continues rants don't make it so. LIAR!!! 4. Mountain bikes don't teach kids to beat on nature, that's anouther BS LIE. Yes, they do. That's exactly what they do. 5. Being able to ride a mopuntain bike is not evidence of being able to walk. Floyd Landis, who won the TDF, would be unable to walk a mile on a hiking trail. So what? He can still walk. But he could ride them if he wished. Another specious remark by Lying MIke Vandeman. And there are thousands like him, with joint damage etc who cannot hike yet can ride. LIAR!!! Your biggest LIE of course is the one where you neglect to mention the damage caused by equestrian use. HORSES destroy trails!!! But you have a hard-on for mountain bikes so you will colntinue to LIE!!! Irrelevant. Horses, like many other animals, evolved in North America and have a right to be here. Bikes have NO rights. Once again proving your an idiot horses were brought to North America by the Spaniards you dolt Yes, but THE HORSE evolved in North America long before that! DUH! Yawn......did you say something??? === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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Tom Stienstra: "Gridlock in wild areas: Time for new policies"
On Dec 10, 9:54 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
So you don't know the difference between a bike and a biker?!!! You really ARE stupid, aren't you? Please. This is Usenet, and I'm a veteran. Mike, you've been trying to rid the world of mountain bikes for what, ten years? Keep fighting the good fight, I say! -Beej |
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