OT - Into the wind in both directions!

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:36:11 -0600, Tom Sherman wrote:

maxo wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:51:43 -0500, Ken Marcet wrote:


Of course every cyclist has had these ride, and probably a million posts
here about them.


The two cities that I've lived in that regularly had this happen were
Göteborg, Sweden and Chicago....

What country is Chicago in?

The Republic of Michigan I believe.

Chris Neary writes:

I tried riding my bike in the wind once and fell over. I don't do
wind any longer.

I rode this bike 40+ miles on a day when the wind was at 30-mph,
gusting to 45-mph:

http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/Sherman.htm.

Here is a picture taken not far from my home:

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/%7Eabrown..._CRW_3022.html

In short, around here if you don't like to ride in the wind, you
don't ride.

I think you exaggerate. We don't spend out time riding over Altamont
pass but riding in the valleys surrounding it isn't the blast that
these pictures make it out to be.

An interesting feature of these windmills is that they are connected
to the power grid to which they deliver current at 60Hz. Therefore,
all windmills of one set run synchronously, automatically shutting off
when they begin drawing power, that is, are not producing. Meanwhile,
others of the same set continue to turn synchronously even if they are
producing almost no power as their lead angle approaches zero.

Jobst Brandt

Tom Sherman wrote:
Maggie wrote:

wrote:

Ken Marcet writes:


I went for a quick little trip to the Post Office just to get some
stamps, and I was thinking this will be a nice easy relaxing ride.
Then I got out there and realized it was WINDY! so I made my way
to
the PO and started back, and I was riding into the wind again!
Struggled to do 12 mph! What a workout!

There's more to wind than is readily apparent. Some of these
effects
are shown in an analysis at:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wind.html

Jobst Brandt




Is this you? If it is, I am truly impressed. There are alot of
intellectuals in this Newsgroup. Come to think of it, when I was
in
college, alot of the professors would ride bikes on campus. ALOT!
Academia and bicycles seem to go hand in hand. Only they were
always
riding in corduroy jackets with ties on. And never wore a helmet.
Maggie.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/index.html

Hang out in rec.bicycles.tech for a while, and you will become well
acquainted with Mr. Brandt.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, on the border of
Forgottonia)

"Ride Bike" - Jobst Brandt

I realized that Mr. Brandt posts in rec.bicycles.tech after I wrote the
post. I can't hang out there, I have no idea what anyone is talking
about. ;-)
All Good Things
Maggie

In article ,
Tom Sherman wrote:

gds wrote:

Could have been worse. Could have been uphill in both directions as
well. That seems to happen to me sometimes.

When I was a child, we rode our bikes 50 miles each way to school,
uphill in both directions, and through 10 feet of snow.

I didn't know you could ride a bent in the snow!

Does your arse get wet and cold sitting so low?.....


HAND

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:25:05 GMT, Neil Brooks
wrote:

RonSonic wrote:

Other places have terrain, here in Florida we have what looks like a slice of
swiss cheese on a table top and wind. I've pounded into the wind with a 42x21
struggling to make cadence and gone with the wind riding 22mph in what felt like
dead calm sweat pouring off my face and falling straight down.

Wind is a strange an painful thing. I think it's the non-linearity that makes it
worse. If you're going uphill you'll go twice as fast if you pedal twice as
hard. Going into the wind you just hurt twice as much and go very little faster.

Ah, yes . . . and the incredible number of lightning strikes . . . and
the rain that falls in buckets in your front yard, yet it's perfectly
clear in your back yard . . . and the little old Q-tip drivers
stopping their Cadillacs at around 3:30p in the summer when the daily
deluge hits (not pulling off the road, mind you--just stopping) . . .
and the hurricanes . . . and, and, and...

Missing my few years in Fort Myers.... Cycling heaven, I tell ya' :-)

Q-tip drivers? Google finds no reference. Please explain.

RonSonic wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:51:00 -0500, jj wrote:

On 16 Mar 2005 11:40:05 -0800, "Maggie"
wrote:


RonSonic wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:51:43 -0500, "Ken Marcet"
wrote:

Of course every cyclist has had these ride, and probably a
million
posts
here about them.
But anyway, I went for a quick little trip to the Post Office
just
to get
some stamps, and I was thinking this will be a nice easy
relaxing
ride. Then
I got out there and realized it was WINDY! so I made my way to
the
PO and
started back, and I was riding into the wind again! Struggled to
do
12 mph!
What a workout!

Here in Tampa there's usually an afternoon wind shift that'll do
that
to you.
And remember since you're going forward any sidewind turns into a
quartering
headwind.

Other places have terrain, here in Florida we have what looks
like a
slice of
swiss cheese on a table top and wind. I've pounded into the wind
with
a 42x21
struggling to make cadence and gone with the wind riding 22mph in
what felt like
dead calm sweat pouring off my face and falling straight down.

Wind is a strange an painful thing. I think it's the
non-linearity
that makes it
worse. If you're going uphill you'll go twice as fast if you
pedal
twice as
hard. Going into the wind you just hurt twice as much and go very
little faster.

Ron

If you run into all my relatives say hello to them for me. Try not
to
run them down. They all live in the Tampa/St. Pete area.

You're turning into a real piece of work. Why would you say such a
thing to
Ron?

Well it's if I run into 'em I shouldn't run 'em over.

I don't remember the afternoon wind shift while visiting out there,
but
I do remember the sun poisoning. ;-)

Oh, that's a fine memory of Florida, peel your hide right off ya and
leave you
sicker than a dog.

Ron


I was 18 years old and wearing a bikini. I was the only idiot out on
the beach that day from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00. It was my first time in
the Florida sun. All future trips turned out well. My problem is I
have to visit the relatives in AUGUST. The worst time to go to FLA.
But that is the price ya pay for having relatives. My mother was one
of 9 children so you can imagine how many cousins and second cousins I
have out in that area. It's frightening.
All Good Things,
Maggie
If you see my cousin Suzy, tell her I want my Betsy Wetsy doll back.

H M Leary wrote:

In article ,
Tom Sherman wrote:


gds wrote:


Could have been worse. Could have been uphill in both directions as
well. That seems to happen to me sometimes.

When I was a child, we rode our bikes 50 miles each way to school,
uphill in both directions, and through 10 feet of snow.


I didn't know you could ride a bent in the snow!

Does your arse get wet and cold sitting so low?.....

Actually, it was less than 4 miles, elevation change was minimal, the
roads were plowed in the winter, and I rode a Peugeot P-8. But that is
not nearly as fun sounding.

--
Tom Sherman - Earth (Downstate Illinois, North of Forgottonia)

I think you exaggerate. We don't spend out time riding over Altamont
pass but riding in the valleys surrounding it isn't the blast that
these pictures make it out to be.

Not by much. I've spent many a time sitting in a echelon riding in the
flatlands north from Livermore.

It's also quite common for my rather petite wife to request that we ride our
tandem as she gets sick of being blown around on her single.

It's true the ridges and associated canyons have the most dramatic winds.
I've personnally witnessed as woman get blown off her bike on Mt. Diablo,
and the locals have nicknamed one corner on Patterson Pass Rd "Trackstand"
as the gusting headwind can literally slow you to a standstill. Then there
are the occasional calls from my friends who live in the Altamont requesting
a weather report from the flatlands.....

An interesting feature of these windmills is that they are connected
to the power grid to which they deliver current at 60Hz. Therefore,
all windmills of one set run synchronously, automatically shutting off
when they begin drawing power, that is, are not producing. Meanwhile,
others of the same set continue to turn synchronously even if they are
producing almost no power as their lead angle approaches zero.

The control of the windmills is even more sophisticated than that: Since
upwind rows of rotors can steal wind velocity from downwind rows, operators
will feather rows of rotors as necessary to maximize power produced from the
entire group.


Chris Neary


"Science, freedom, beauty, adventu what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

wrote in message ...
Ken Marcet writes:

I went for a quick little trip to the Post Office just to get some
stamps, and I was thinking this will be a nice easy relaxing ride.
Then I got out there and realized it was WINDY! so I made my way to
the PO and started back, and I was riding into the wind again!
Struggled to do 12 mph! What a workout!

There's more to wind than is readily apparent. Some of these effects
are shown in an analysis at:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wind.html

Jobst Brandt


W = SQRT((U+V×COS(a))^2+(V×SIN(a))^2)

How does this equation work when the wind speed (V) is greater than
the bicycle speed (U) and the angle of the wind is an obtuse angle
(i.e. tailwind) ?

A simple example:

a=180 degree (direct tailwind), U = 20 and V = 19 =
W = 1 which is correct.

However when V is greater than U:

a=180 degree (direct tailwind), U = 20 and V = 21 =
W = 1 which is incorrect.

Rik O'Shea writes:

I went for a quick little trip to the Post Office just to get some
stamps, and I was thinking this will be a nice easy relaxing ride.
Then I got out there and realized it was WINDY! so I made my way
to the PO and started back, and I was riding into the wind again!
Struggled to do 12 mph! What a workout!

There's more to wind than is readily apparent. Some of these effects
are shown in an analysis at:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/wind.html

W = SQRT((U+V?COS(a))^2+(V?SIN(a))^2)

How does this equation work when the wind speed (V) is greater than
the bicycle speed (U) and the angle of the wind is an obtuse angle
(i.e. tailwind)?

A simple example:

a=180 degree (direct tailwind), U = 20 and V = 19 =
W = 1 which is correct.

However when V is greater than U:

a=180 degree (direct tailwind), U = 20 and V = 21 =
W = 1 which is incorrect.

An example: All the wind speeds and powers are displayed in that item
as continuous curves and the results are not as you suggest. I think
you are ignoring the SIGN which trigonometric functions dutifully
consider. You'll notice that the winds are computed with angle
functions which you have omitted.