Ahh! PITA tubulars and old bikes

Wow. So talk about me being a dumbass. Here's the chronology:

1. Friend 1 talks about being interested in road bike
2. Friend 1 and I go get an old road bike from a local repository
3. Friend 2 is interested in road bikes
4. Friend 1 finds a better bike for a little more money and wants to get rid
of the bike from dump
5. I ask friend 2 if he wants the bike.
6. Friend 2 asks my recommendation, I say go for it.
7. Friend 1 drops off bike from dump at my house.
8. I look the bike over some more. I find that the wheels are tubular
(dammit!)
9. I notice a few other things here and there, rust, etc.
10. Friend 2 still has not come to claim the bike yet.
11. Today I notice the rear has gone flat for no reason. F*CK!
12. Bike won't be worth it to friend 2 to replace the tubulars...

We are all college students going to the same school. School starts in 2
weeks. Tubulars are a royal pain, and I don't knwo how to fix the tube or
anything. I would recommend relacing the wheel with a clincher rim, but
that would mean needing more tires, tubes, and rims. My friend 2 is not
interested in spending more money... he wants to ride.

I was considering selling the bike on eBay, as it has some Campy stuff and
may very well have some vintage value to a collector. I want to sell it
because then it would be a no-cost solution to everyone except me. Friend 2
took my recommendation, so I feel like it's my responsibility.

What is the cheapest way for me to handle the situation? If I were to sell
the bike on eBay, I would need to pay Friend 1 $85 for the bike because
that's how much Friend 2 was going to pay Friend 1.

I posted about this bike before. Look he
http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/crap/miyata.html
Would it be worth it to sell?

I hope you haven't confused you.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

workmanship that the name would imply. In contrast, modern Campy
components all have excellent workmanship for all models (just different
materials and some newer features on the higher-end), but in the 70s, some
of the lines were pretty junky. These are probably usable, but a new
low-end Shimano hub will be much better.

They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones,
locknuts, axles , but that is about it. Bearings run smooth.

The bike has a lot of rust. Good luck if you have to replace that bottom
bracket. The shell would probably fall apart. The freewheel is also
rusted. Soak it in oil if you can get it off the hub, and maybe it will
work for a while.

Yes - the shell is rusty, but I dremeled the surface and cleaned it up
pretty well. Didn't penetrate more than a couple of millmeters... but I
don't believe enough to be of issue. Freewheel turns easily and quite well.
pawls click cleanly and the freewheel doesn't grind.

Best stuff on the bike are the rims and tires. Those rims were very
high-end, far better than the rest of the bike. But of course the nipples
have rusted themselves onto the spokes, so they are non-truable. The
tires were good, but they have died. Bits must crumble off on your hands
when you touch them. They are not usable, so the fact that one went flat
is irrelevant.

Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples must
be brass.

The bike can be made rideable -- for now -- with new rims/tires/spokes.
That would cost, doing the labor yourself, somewhere around $100. If the
bottom bracket is shot, chances are it can't be fixed. Determine whether
you can re-pack the bottom bracket without destroying the shell
before you go off spending money. You will have to re-pack all the
bearings -- and replace all the balls. The brakes OK? Derailleurs? How
awful is that saddle?

BB has no play and runs smoothly - that's one of the first things we
checked.

Brakes are surprisingly strong... stronger than my regular road bike. Front
der was sticking - I soaked in WD and it works now, albeit a little weakly.
Finish quality is superb - similar to current Campy stuff. Saddle is an
Avocet... not too bad of a nut-buster.

Cables and housing are the main things that need to be replaced.

Thanks for your insight.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

In article ,
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

workmanship that the name would imply. In contrast, modern Campy
components all have excellent workmanship for all models (just different
materials and some newer features on the higher-end), but in the 70s, some
of the lines were pretty junky. These are probably usable, but a new
low-end Shimano hub will be much better.

They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones,
locknuts, axles , but that is about it. Bearings run smooth.

The bike has a lot of rust. Good luck if you have to replace that bottom
bracket. The shell would probably fall apart. The freewheel is also
rusted. Soak it in oil if you can get it off the hub, and maybe it will
work for a while.

Yes - the shell is rusty, but I dremeled the surface and cleaned it up
pretty well. Didn't penetrate more than a couple of millmeters... but I
don't believe enough to be of issue. Freewheel turns easily and quite well.
pawls click cleanly and the freewheel doesn't grind.

Best stuff on the bike are the rims and tires. Those rims were very
high-end, far better than the rest of the bike. But of course the nipples
have rusted themselves onto the spokes, so they are non-truable. The
tires were good, but they have died. Bits must crumble off on your hands
when you touch them. They are not usable, so the fact that one went flat
is irrelevant.

Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples must
be brass.

BB has no play and runs smoothly - that's one of the first things we
checked.

Brakes are surprisingly strong... stronger than my regular road bike. Front
der was sticking - I soaked in WD and it works now, albeit a little weakly.
Finish quality is superb - similar to current Campy stuff. Saddle is an
Avocet... not too bad of a nut-buster.

Cables and housing are the main things that need to be replaced.

Thanks for your insight.

Made-in-Japan frame, Campy hubs, tubies, and a Suntour Superbe
drivetrain? My friend Dave will be in contact shortly .

Seriously, what you have is a pretty nice bike (of the era) in really
bad shape. To have collectible value, I think the frame would have to be
in better shape, simply because anyone who is into Miyatas could have
their pick of garage queens that have never seen a drop of rain.

The parts are individually somewhat desireable, but this bike is
probably most valuable as a ride-it-into-the-ground winter bike. I'd
swap the freewheel for a 6 or 7v Shimano Hyperglide, a mod I made to my
half-decent garage sale bike, and which improves the shifting
immesurably. If the tubular wheels bug you, you should be able to find
someone (online or locally) who will happily swap you your tubular rims
for some inexpensive clincher wheels. Or, since you have all the other
parts, just buy some rims and transfer the spokes and hubs over.

$85? Well, you'll probably never get more for the bike, so at that price
it may be something you'd regretfully let go of, unless it really wins
you over. It's not a ridiculous price, but it's not a steal, either.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:
What is the cheapest way for me to handle the situation?

Unless you got a "finders fee" for brokering this deal, I'd suggest
you just let the two friends work it out themselves. Sounds like
friend #1 got the bike for free (with some help from you). So I don't
see how he's out anything.

You gave an honest (if hasty) recommendation to friend #2, but now
have second thoughts. I'd just point out the problems to friend #2 and
let him decide what he wants to do.

Putting time and money into fixing this bike up would only make sense
if you or your friends were going to keep it.

As for wheels, Nashbar has a pair of road wheels on sale for $70 (Sun
M13 rims/Shimano 2200 hubs/SS spokes) that might do. Decent tires can
be had for about $12 each. Of course, that would more than double the
cost of the bike for friend #2.

Art Harris

"James Thomson" wrote in message
...
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

[the hubs] seem to be in decent condition. No play. They
need new cones, locknuts, axles , but that is about it.
Bearings run smooth.

If there's no play, and the bearings run smooth, you don't need new cones,
locknuts or axles.

Well, what I meant was that I would assume a collector would want to clean
up the rusty cones, locknuts, and axles, but functionally, it's good.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 03:27:46 +0000, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

They seem to be in decent condition. No play. They need new cones,
locknuts, axles , but that is about it. Bearings run smooth.

If the cones are shot, how can they run smooth? What is wrong with the
axles?

Yes - the shell is rusty, but I dremeled the surface and cleaned it up
pretty well. Didn't penetrate more than a couple of millmeters... but I
don't believe enough to be of issue. Freewheel turns easily and quite
well. pawls click cleanly and the freewheel doesn't grind.

That's better than it looked like.

Wheels are dead true. I believe they're still truable, as the nipples
must be brass.

Even brass nipples can get glued to the spokes with corrosion.

BB has no play and runs smoothly - that's one of the first things we
checked.

Good. But those tires will have to be replaced in order to give anything
like a reliable ride. I suspect those have butyl tubes, but even so, they
may well be rotten, and I think those were cotton tires, so the casing is
definitely gone due to time.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not
_`\(,_ | certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to
(_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

Well, what I meant was that I would assume a collector
would want to clean up the rusty cones, locknuts, and
axles, but functionally, it's good.

The wheels aren't collectable. The cosmetic state of the rims is such that
nobody would consider replacing the axle hardware for cosmetic reasons.
Collectors want shiny, high-end, NOS, and rare. Your wheels are none of
those things.

James Thomson